quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): Wow .. who's money is building all this?
Btw, anyone know in what ways the West is involved in Sudan right now?
Sudan receives alot of investment from gulf arab states, plus sudan itself produces 700 000 barell oil a day which the chinese buy. That's also why the west are pissed of on Sudan.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): Wow .. who's money is building all this?
Btw, anyone know in what ways the West is involved in Sudan right now?
Sudan receives alot of investment from gulf arab states, plus sudan itself produces 700 000 barell oil a day which the chinese buy. That's also why the west are pissed of on Sudan.
So why the government genocide of its own people?
Is it a careless side-affect of the conflict, or is there more to it?Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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There is no genocide! Damn it when are you gonna learn how global western politics/economic imperialism works? The Anglo-saxon corporate media would have never covered so heavily and manipulate the ethnic clashes in Darfur if it wasn't for a gain, you seriously think they give a sh!t about Darfurians?? This whole circus is orchestered so to punish the sudanese regime and tarnish their image globally ever since they contracted the Chinese. Sudan is afterall the biggest nation (geographically) in africa and the west felt a great lose in their economic war against china and eastern states.
Here in sweden the so-called darfur genocide is almost never reported since the swedish media knows their is no genocide atleast not in relation to 100 other places, CNN and other american newsoutlets however make it seem as if the darfur ethnic conflict is the worst thing that has happened in human history since the holocoust and Hutu vs Tutsi showdown. Everyone informed knows their agenda, and outdated methods. As the bedouin proverb goes "the dogs will bark but the caravan will go on", indeed let them bark, Sudan will still continue to develope by their own terms.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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Yes, the international community is BEHIND the ethnic conflict in Sudan, but the same goes for Somalia, Congo, Uganda, Rwanda and many other African countries. The point being that development is NEVER really the priority of these folks, rather than EXPLOITATION of African resources and labor.
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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Not necesserily "false" that they attacked militia men hiding in villages (innocent or not). Things like this needs to be seen in it's greater context. Darfur is a great chunk of the modern nation Sudan, many people who want to weak the khartoum regime would of course sponsor seperatist movements in this region (as well as others) in an attempt to secede from khartoum regime. I don't think it's wrong that the Sudanese government took measures against these type of foreign sponsored armed men who threat the sovereignty of the nation Sudan and it's internationally recognized borders.
But overall the Darfur conflict was initially a minor ethnic/tribal conflict which developed into a political one after United States and later government of Sudan picked sides.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:when are you gonna learn how global western politics/economic imperialism works?
Just because the Ws.t has an agenda, doesn't mean the government of Sudan is to be deemed blameless.
I was under the impression that there was a war but yet at the same time that the government attacked innocent villages.
So the bolded false, Doug/Yonis?
?? Why are you asking me? Why are African governments attacking and killing villagers ANYWHERE in Africa? The same pattern of colonial political and economic domination of foreigners.
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:when are you gonna learn how global western politics/economic imperialism works?
Just because the Ws.t has an agenda, doesn't mean the government of Sudan is to be deemed blameless.
I was under the impression that there was a war but yet at the same time that the government attacked innocent villages.
So the bolded false, Doug/Yonis?
So taking measures against foreign-backed rebels constitutes "genocide"?
You negro judeophiles really expose yourselves with this kind of reasoning.
But even more bizarre are the arguments from rasolowitz and co.: it's a "race war".... Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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The conflict in sudan is indeed a "race war." This isn't conjecture, it's a fact. 800,000 people dead don't lie.
And to say the rebels fighting for their lives are somehow western proxies shows a complete lack of understanidng about Africa and the arab invasions. First of all, the "rebels" in Sudan aren't rebels at all. They are the indigenous people of the Sudan, black africans. It's the arabs who are the rebels. How the hell can you call the rightful people of Sudan "rebels" in their own land? This is how distorted the clear-cut case of genocide in africa is to some folks. Blacks are fighting against foreign rule. You have "rebels" fighting against American economic domination in Nigeria. Now is anyone going to say the whites are the rightful people of Nigeria? Or Zimbabwe? Or South Africa?
And Yes, the whites have an agenda regarding Sudan, but that's a strawman argument in this case. It's total bullshit to say that what's happening in Sudan isn't genocide or that for once the essential facts of what's happening in Sudan aren't accurate. For once it's not western spin, it's truth. Some people on these boards haven't researched that the arabs have been oppressing the africans longer than the whites. Read what Dr John Henrik Clarke and Chncellor Williams wrote about the arabs and Africa. Hell, just look at what the arabs wrote. This is a race war and the arabs make no bones about that. They wipe out Nubian archaeological sites because they represent African culture and accomplishments and the current arabs (dark skinned and light) squatting in Sudan are not Africans at all, nor do they consider themselves Africans. They would kill you if you tried to call them black/African. They are arabs!
How else do you think the arabs went from having no presence in Africa in 500 AD to having a huge presence by 1000 AD?
The arabs are under no illusion that they don't consider themselves to be black or even Africa. The dark-skinned "arabs" you see on the news are no difference that Zahi Hawass or any other arab. And they all hate blacks.
Are the rebels in Darfur are in part foreign-backed? Perhaps, but obviously not by much. And certinaly not by Britain or the US. These people have been under attack by the arabs for over 1400 years. If the whtie white world wanted sudan's oil unilaterla action in Sudan would be an easier sale than Iraq. So let's get off the white world wants to beat up on poor old sudan horse. That one died a LONG time ago. And if anyone wants to talk about foreign assistance in the race war in Sudan, lets talk about Khartoum. They are being backed to the hilt by the arab league and the saudis. Now who the hell among the rebels (who BTW are the indigenous Africans, who BELONG in Sudan, as opposed to the arabs and their half-breed black wannabe allies) gets backing like that? None of them! Let's not allow our dislike for white lies to blind us to these truths.
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: There is no genocide! Damn it when are you gonna learn how global western politics/economic imperialism works? The Anglo-saxon corporate media would have never covered so heavily and manipulate the ethnic clashes in Darfur if it wasn't for a gain, you seriously think they give a sh!t about Darfurians?? This whole circus is orchestered so to punish the sudanese regime and tarnish their image globally ever since they contracted the Chinese. Sudan is afterall the biggest nation (geographically) in africa and the west felt a great lose in their economic war against china and eastern states.
Here in sweden the so-called darfur genocide is almost never reported since the swedish media knows their is no genocide atleast not in relation to 100 other places, CNN and other american newsoutlets however make it seem as if the darfur ethnic conflict is the worst thing that has happened in human history since the holocoust and Hutu vs Tutsi showdown. Everyone informed knows their agenda, and outdated methods. As the bedouin proverb goes "the dogs will bark but the caravan will go on", indeed let them bark, Sudan will still continue to develope by their own terms.
Yonis is partially right here, the West does have a habit of manipulating situations in Africa to their advantage. After all, it was the West that supported corrupt as hell dictator Mobutu in the Congo all in the name of stopping communism.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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Sportbilly,When there are two black groups fighting this is a civil war not "race war".
They are rebels in the sense that they are fighting against the government of Sudan, and I might add Sudanese aid workers, AU troops and civilians caught up. There is a clear difference between Nigerian and Darfur rebels. Former don't have the reputation, or even western (so-called "international support") as the latter for killings and intransigence. Remember the Darfur rebels arent a monolithic group.
I think there should be negotiated settlement for two cases, not wanton destruction. Don't romanticise rebellion. Africa has been down this dead end road before. Look at resent case of Liberia: after rebels, supported by USA, overthrew Taylor destroyed the place in the process are they any better off? Arabization cannot be an explanation for every single conflict in Islmaic African politics. Its an argument that appeals to emotions yes, but I go with the facts. The picture of "Arab government" versus "black Africans" is outdated as 1) the rebels are just as black and Islamic, 2) there is a coalition government now after the end of first civil war, look at their ambassador to America. I think he, more than anybody else, is in a better position to talk on the reasons for the conflict.
Where is your evidence that black Arabs in Sudan are "foreigners" (i.e. a substantial amount of their genetic material comes from elsewhere.) Unless you are going to advance the Hamitic theory, they are black and indigenous too. They came from having no presence in 500AD to huge presence because of conversion. This does not make them "foreign", although their culture certainly is. But unless you are going to outlaw Arab-Islam, Western-Christianity and Judaism, this is the reality in Africa.
I don't take everything Dr John Henrik Clarke and Dr. Williams say as gospel. Dr. Williams was wrong on AE: north being more "mixed" than south. Clarke has a long (maybe from his communist days with Jews) personal history with Islam and NOI which I think clouds most of his judgement. And as I said, African politics is more complex and fluid, it is not static so we cant run to Clarke for all explanations re modern political problems in Africa. Where is your evidence that "They wipe out Nubian archaeological sites because they represent African culture and accomplishments", aren't they using said sites now for tourism?
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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This thread was sponsored by Sudan Ministry of Propaganda, they paid $500,000 to the poster...From reliable sources...
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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Some Muslims, especially Arabs have some inferiority complex towards Jews...and Westerners...
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Sportbilly wrote: This is a race war and the arabs make no bones about that. They wipe out Nubian archaeological sites because they represent African culture and accomplishments and the current arabs (dark skinned and light) squatting in Sudan are not Africans at all , nor do they consider themselves Africans. They would kill you if you tried to call them black/African.
What are you talking about? Northern sudanese are just arabized, you can clearly see that they are african, and they never deny being african.
Do these people like like they are from iraq or syria??
Also the archelogical sites of ancient sudan are located in northern sudan not darfur or southern sudan, northern sudanese are indigenous to northern sudan and they never destroyed any sites because they hate "blacks" or africans, you ar very misinformed.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Habari: Some Muslims, especially Arabs have some inferiority complex towards Jews...and Westerners...
ala akoben08..
Is this the extent of your contribution to the discussion after accusing me of not spending enough time on Darfur? Captain America I directed you in here from this thread because I thought you were concerned about what was going on in Sudan and wanted to discuss it. You predictable little American negro elitist wannabe, I knew you didnt give a flying f**k about the Darfur crisis (or even starving Somalis for that matter) you just wanted to divert attention from the fact that your candidate for change is a jew puppet.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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