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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [qb] The oldest Native Americans are the Fuegians. The Fuegians are neither Austroloid or Asian in appearence. ] [IMG]http://www.geocities.com/olmec982000/Slide30.GIF[/IMG] Above is a picture of a native Fuegian taken in 1856. This shows the native African Americans of Tierra del Fuego. . [/qb][/QUOTE][/qb][/QUOTE]Do you have any history of these Fuegians? [/qb][/QUOTE]I imagine you would have to do archivo research to really illuminate their history. . I have not seen any literature on this group. [/qb][/QUOTE]Clyde, that is not a picture of a Fuegian. Here is a picture of some Fuegians: Yamana people: People showing Amerind features: [IMG]http://www.andaman.org/BOOK/chapter54/text-Fuego/Yamana/Yamana-Family.jpg[/IMG] People showing Amerind/Australian aborigine type features: [IMG]http://www.andaman.org/BOOK/chapter54/text-Fuego/Yamana/Yamana-group.jpg[/IMG] NONE of these people look like Khoisan Clyde. And here is where it came from: http://www.andaman.org/BOOK/chapter54/text-Fuego/Yamana/text-Yamana.htm More images of Fuegians, this time from Chile: [IMG]http://www.uchile.cl/cultura/lenguas/yaganes/images/yag1.JPG[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.uchile.cl/cultura/lenguas/yaganes/images/yag7.JPG[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.uchile.cl/cultura/lenguas/yaganes/images/yag23.JPG[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.uchile.cl/cultura/lenguas/yaganes/images/yag11.JPG[/IMG] From here: http://www.uchile.cl/cultura/lenguas/yaganes/fotografias1.html http://www.uchile.cl/cultura/lenguas/yaganes/ Clyde, you simply are making up stuff and do not know what on earth you are talking about. So please spare us your fake images and made up nonsense about what these people looked like. [/qb][/QUOTE]Stupid fool. This picture was the first picture ever taken of the Fuegians by Darwin accoring to Natural History Museum. [/qb][/QUOTE]I don't believe you Clyde. Please show me a citation from the Natural History Museum stating that the photo is of a Fuegian native. I think it is not. Darwin sailed to Tierra Del Fuego in 1832, BEFORE photography became widespread and wrote about it in the following BOOK: http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/d/darwin/charles/beagle/complete.html ALL the images are hand drawn from this time Clyde. You are lying again Clyde. [/qb][/QUOTE]There is no question that the original African Americans have mixed with Amerinds and now you rarely see the African type. But genetic research makes it clear that the original Fuegians were Black/African people. the Fuegians carry the same STRs as Africans based on the research literature as evidence I provide two citations. [b] Citation One (1)[/b] [QUOTE] Titre du document / Document title Early population differentiation in extinct aborigines from Tierra del Fuego-Patagonia: Ancient mtDNA sequences and Y-chromosome STR characterization = Différentiation des populations anciennes chez les aborigènes éteints de la Patagonie-Terre de Feu : Séquences d'ADNmt et caractérisation STR du chromosome Y Auteur(s) / Author(s) GARCIA-BOUR Jaume (1) ; PEREZ-PEREZ Alejandro (1) ; ALVAREZ Sara (1) ; FERNANDEZ Eva (1) ; LOPEZ-PARRA Ana Maria (1 2) ; ARROYO-PARDO Eduardo (1 2) ; TURBON Daniel (1) ; Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s) (1) Secció d'Antropologia, Departament de Biologia Animal, Universitat de Barcelona, 08028 Barcelona, ESPAGNE (2) Laboratorio de Biologia Forense, Departamento de Toxicología y Legislación Sanitaria, Facultad de Medicina, Universidad Complutense, 28040 Madrid, ESPAGNE Résumé / Abstract Ancient mtDNA was succesfully recovered from 24 skeletal samples of a total of 60 ancient individuals from Patagonia-Tierra del Fuego, dated to 100-400 years BP, for which consistent amplifications and two-strand sequences were obtained. [b]Y-chromosome STRs (DYS434, DYS437, DYS439, DYS393, DYS391, DYS390, DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, and DYS388)[/b] and the biallelic system DYS199 were also amplified, Y-STR alleles could be characterized in nine cases, with an average of 4.1 loci per sample correctly typed. In two samples of the same ethnic group (Aonikenk), an identical and complete eight-loci haplotype was recovered. The DYS199 biallelic system was used as a control of contamination by modern DNA and, along with DYS19, as a marker of American origin. The analysis of both mtDNA and Y-STRs revealed DNA from Amerindian ancestry. The observed polymorphisms are consistent with the hypothesis that the ancient Fuegians are close to populations from south-central Chile and Argentina, but their high nucleotide diversity and the frequency of single lineages strongly support early genetic differentiation of the Fuegians through combined processes of population bottleneck, isolation, and/or migration, followed by strong genetic drift. This suggests an early genetic diversification of the Fuegians right after their arrival at the southernmost extreme of South America. Revue / Journal Title American journal of physical anthropology ISSN 0002-9483 Source / Source 2004, vol. 123, no4, pp. 361-370 [10 page(s) (article)] (47 ref.) [/QUOTE]Here Garcia Bour et al note that: Fuegian Y-chromosomes STRs include “[b]Y-chromosome STRs (DYS434, DYS437, DYS439, DYS393, DYS391, DYS390, DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, and DYS388)[/b] “ [b]Citation Two (2)[/b] [QUOTE] Diversity of Y-STR haplotypes of chromosomes belonging to hgA1 and within the R surname. (a) [b]Relationships of Y-STR haplotypes within hgA1. Weighted median joining network containing the 10-locus Y-STR haplotypes (DYS19, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS389I, DYS389II-I) of eleven hgA1 chromosomes.[/b] Circles represent haplotypes, with area proportional to frequency and colored according to population. European Journal of Human Genetics (2007) 15, 288–293. doi:10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201771; published online 24 January 2007 Africans in Yorkshire? The deepest-rooting clade of the Y phylogeny within an English genealogy Turi E King1 http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n3/full/5201771a.html [/QUOTE]. In this paper, King et al make it clear that the “Y-STR haplotypes (DYS19, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS389I, DYS389II-I) of eleven hgA1 chromosomes.[/b] “ belong to hg A1. Note that Garcia Bour et al maintains Fuegians carry these STRs [QUOTE] DYS434, DYS437, DYS439, DYS393, DYS391, DYS390, DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, and DYS388 [/QUOTE]King et al observed that the principal STRs in haplogroup A1 are: [QUOTE] DYS19, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS389I, DYS389II-I [/QUOTE]You don’t have to be brain scientist to recognize that concordance exist between the two sets of STRs. It stands to reason that if the Fuegians carry Y-STRs associated with haplogroup A1 which is an African haplogroup, the Fuegians have direct African ancestry. Researchers have been able to recover mtDNA samples from 24 out of 60 ancient skeletons from Tierra del Fuego dating to 100-400BP. The [b]y chromosome STRs were DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 [/b](see: Garcia-Bour et al below). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 are characteristic of haplogroup A1 (see: King et al, ). Haplogroup A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup. This genetic data make it clear that Negro Fuegians were living in Fuego, 9000 years after Neves believed they had been replaced by mongoloid folk as illustrated by the pictures published above. . [/QB][/QUOTE]
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