Above we see a picture of many of the Fuegians who converted to Christianity. Although they practiced Christianity they creamated their dead. Above is a picture of Jemmy’s wife. Jemmy was the main Fuegian missionary.
It is interesting to note that many of the Fuegians practice cremation , not burial.
quote: The body had been preserved until he could be present at his father's[Jemmy’s] cremation cremation, disposal of a corpse by fire. It is an ancient and widespread practice, second only to burial. It has been found among the chiefdoms of the Pacific Northwest, among Northern Athapascan bands in Alaska, and among Canadian cultural groups. . No prayers were said at the funeral pyre, and the Christian missionary refused to take part in what he regarded as a pagan ritual.
The practice of creamation among the Tierra Fuego Asian tribes make it clear that the excavated Fuegian skeletons may have not represented the contemporary people described as Fuegians.
The Fuegian skeletons carry the same STRs as Africans based on the research literature as evidence I provide two citations.
Citation One (1)
quote: Titre du document / Document title Early population differentiation in extinct aborigines from Tierra del Fuego-Patagonia: Ancient mtDNA sequences and Y-chromosome STR characterization = Différentiation des populations anciennes chez les aborigènes éteints de la Patagonie-Terre de Feu : Séquences d'ADNmt et caractérisation STR du chromosome Y Auteur(s) / Author(s) GARCIA-BOUR Jaume (1) ; PEREZ-PEREZ Alejandro (1) ; ALVAREZ Sara (1) ; FERNANDEZ Eva (1) ; LOPEZ-PARRA Ana Maria (1 2) ; ARROYO-PARDO Eduardo (1 2) ; TURBON Daniel (1) ; Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s) (1) Secció d'Antropologia, Departament de Biologia Animal, Universitat de Barcelona, 08028 Barcelona, ESPAGNE (2) Laboratorio de Biologia Forense, Departamento de Toxicología y Legislación Sanitaria, Facultad de Medicina, Universidad Complutense, 28040 Madrid, ESPAGNE Résumé / Abstract Ancient mtDNA was succesfully recovered from 24 skeletal samples of a total of 60 ancient individuals from Patagonia-Tierra del Fuego, dated to 100-400 years BP, for which consistent amplifications and two-strand sequences were obtained. Y-chromosome STRs (DYS434, DYS437, DYS439, DYS393, DYS391, DYS390, DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, and DYS388) and the biallelic system DYS199 were also amplified, Y-STR alleles could be characterized in nine cases, with an average of 4.1 loci per sample correctly typed. In two samples of the same ethnic group (Aonikenk), an identical and complete eight-loci haplotype was recovered. The DYS199 biallelic system was used as a control of contamination by modern DNA and, along with DYS19, as a marker of American origin. The analysis of both mtDNA and Y-STRs revealed DNA from Amerindian ancestry. The observed polymorphisms are consistent with the hypothesis that the ancient Fuegians are close to populations from south-central Chile and Argentina, but their high nucleotide diversity and the frequency of single lineages strongly support early genetic differentiation of the Fuegians through combined processes of population bottleneck, isolation, and/or migration, followed by strong genetic drift. This suggests an early genetic diversification of the Fuegians right after their arrival at the southernmost extreme of South America. Revue / Journal Title American journal of physical anthropology ISSN 0002-9483 Source / Source 2004, vol. 123, no4, pp. 361-370 [10 page(s) (article)] (47 ref.)
Here Garcia Bour et al note that: Fuegian Y-chromosomes STRs include “Y-chromosome STRs (DYS434, DYS437, DYS439, DYS393, DYS391, DYS390, DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, and DYS388) “
Citation Two (2)
quote: Diversity of Y-STR haplotypes of chromosomes belonging to hgA1 and within the R surname. (a) Relationships of Y-STR haplotypes within hgA1. Weighted median joining network containing the 10-locus Y-STR haplotypes (DYS19, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS389I, DYS389II-I) of eleven hgA1 chromosomes. Circles represent haplotypes, with area proportional to frequency and colored according to population.
European Journal of Human Genetics (2007) 15, 288–293. doi:10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201771; published online 24 January 2007 Africans in Yorkshire? The deepest-rooting clade of the Y phylogeny within an English genealogy Turi E King1
In this paper, King et al make it clear that the “Y-STR haplotypes (DYS19, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS389I, DYS389II-I) of eleven hgA1 chromosomes.[/b] “ belong to hg A1.
Note that Garcia Bour et al maintains Fuegians carry these STRs
You don’t have to be brain scientist to recognize that concordance exist between the two sets of STRs.
It stands to reason that if the Fuegians skeletons carry Y-STRs associated with haplogroup A1 which is an African haplogroup, these Fuegians had direct African ancestry.
Researchers have been able to recover mtDNA samples from 24 out of 60 ancient skeletons from Tierra del Fuego dating to 100-400BP. The y chromosome STRs were DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 (see: Garcia-Bour et al below). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 are characteristic of haplogroup A1 (see: King et al, ).
Haplogroup A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup. This genetic data make it clear that Negro Fuegians were living in Fuego, 9000 years after Neves believed they had been replaced by mongoloid folk as illustrated by the pictures published above.
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Description: A photograph taken during the voyage of H.M.S. Challenger (1872-1876) funded by the British Government for scientific purposes. The expedition is believed to have been the first to carry an official photographer.
Anyone can go here and type in Fuegian in the search box to see what comes up. If there's any mistake it's been made by the Natural History Museum's staff.
And their mistake on that webpage was to include pics of Kru, a Liberian ethny, among their pics of Fuegians.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: I am citing what I found with the picture. I did not list the website so I will post the address when I run into it again.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Y-chromosome STRs (DYS434, DYS437, DYS439, DYS393, DYS391, DYS390, DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, and DYS388) and the biallelic system DYS199 were also amplified, Y-STR alleles could be characterized in nine cases, with an average of 4.1 loci per sample correctly typed. In two samples of the same ethnic group (Aonikenk), an identical and complete eight-loci haplotype was recovered. The DYS199 biallelic system was used as a control of contamination by modern DNA and, along with DYS19, as a marker of American origin. The analysis of both mtDNA and Y-STRs revealed DNA from ***Amerindian*** ancestry. The observed polymorphisms are consistent with the hypothesis that the ancient Fuegians are close to populations from south-central ***Chile and Argentina*** , but their high nucleotide diversity and the frequency of single lineages strongly support early genetic differentiation of the Fuegians through combined processes of population bottleneck, isolation, and/or migration, followed by strong genetic drift. This suggests an early genetic diversification of the Fuegians right after their arrival at the southernmost extreme of South America. Revue / Journal Title American journal of physical anthropology ISSN 0002-9483 Source / Source 2004, vol. 123, no4, pp. 361-370 [10 page(s) (article)] (47 ref.)
Clyde, from the above, where do you draw your conclusions? What scientists agree with you? What exact correlations do these two Y-chromosome STRs share, inparticularly, that would admonish what scientists say, which is due to OOA populations, Y cromosomal Adam, which is Haplogroup A, and not subsequent migrations OOA??? Fuegans don't carry Y-A1.
The mitochondrial DNAs (mtDNAs) from individuals belonging to three Chilean tribes, the Mapuche, the Pehuenche, and the Yaghan, were studied both by RFLP analysis and D-loop (control region) sequencing. RFLP analysis showed that 3 individuals (1.3%) belonged to haplogroup A, 19 (8%) to haplogroup B, 102 (43%) to haplogroup C, and 113 (47.7%) to haplogroup D. Among the 73 individuals analyzed by D-loop sequencing, we observed 37 different haplotypes defined by 52 polymorphic sites. Joint analysis of data obtained by RFLP and sequencing methods demonstrated that, regardless of the method of analysis, the mtDNA haplotypes of these three contemporary South American aborigine groups clustered into four main haplogroups, in a way similar to those previously described for other Amerindians. These results further revealed the absence of haplogroup A in both the Mapuche and Yaghan as well as the absence of haplogroup B in the Yaghan. These results suggest that the people of Tierra del Fuego are related to tribes from south-central South America.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Description: A photograph taken during the voyage of H.M.S. Challenger (1872-1876) funded by the British Government for scientific purposes. The expedition is believed to have been the first to carry an official photographer.
Anyone can go here and type in Fuegian in the search box to see what comes up. If there's any mistake it's been made by the Natural History Museum's staff.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: I am citing what I found with the picture. I did not list the website so I will post the address when I run into it again.
Nice. All of the pics have the same descriptions. So obviously that pic is not an actual sole pic, but is part of a collection.
Funny Clyde tried to say 1856, when it's really (1872-1876), and funny how he tried to make that image a sole picture and give the description among all the pics, as solely for that pic only, as the same description is provided for every pic, go figure....
Description: A photograph taken during the voyage of H.M.S. Challenger (1872-1876) funded by the British Government for scientific purposes. The expedition is believed to have been the first to carry an official photographer.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Doug writes: Marc, black people have been evolving those features since they left Africa 60,000 years ago.
[/b] Doug. Horny whites came into the South Pacific and copulating with the women there produced straight-haired offspring.
I have pictures of Africans (by phenotype) on a number of South Pacific Islands. These are people with woolly hair.
The logical scenario is if woolly hair is so widespread, that it was once universal. Straight-haired whites came, fucked African women and produced offspring with straight hair.
You are not going to accept my scenario. I certainly don't accept yours as it's a conveniently feel-good approach to avoid the fact that your ancestors have committed unconscionable atrosities against (by phenotype) Africans.
The page below shows what happens when Africans (by phenotype) produce progeny with whites. The result is the Spanish/Arab look.
Just for your information, the San (have a Mongul look were the original Monguls) have woolly hair. When whites radiated from the Steppes producing progeny with San of the Steppes and Mongolia, the hair went from woolly to straight. That is the origin of today’s Monguls with straight hair.
[[ Consider: Yuehai Ke and Li Jin, et. al., African Origin of Modern Humans in East Asia: A Tale of 12,000 Y Chromosomes, Science, 292:5519, pp. 1151-1153, Issue of 11 May 2001.]]
Doug. You can go jump in a lake with your theory.
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-------------------- The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation. Posts: 2334 | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Marc ^^^everything you posted above is a perfect example of what I meant by your delusional outrageous claims.
One I will quickly address, you say offspring of Africans and Europeans tend to look Arab/Spanish.
But you first say the Oceanic's inherited their straighter and/or blond hair from these incoming invading whites. So how come these Oceanic's don't look Arab/Spanish?
Secondly where is the genetic evidence? I would love to review this.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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[Clyde] Your premise is there were multiple migrations OOA. Two specifically, one directly from Africa into Europe, and another from Africa into the Americas, which are both wrong. You're required to provide this evidence.
^ Of which Clyde knows there is none.
Clyde to me you only ever communicate disingenuous charletonism.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Clyde - the bogus sketches are from the book - Charles Darwin "The Man and his Warfare" Ward, Henshaw. 1927
Your picture is obviously correct, which begs the questions: Where are the REAL Fuegians today?
And is there any depths that the White man will not sink, in orders to steal the Black mans history. Their disgusting addiction to racist lying makes understanding history, a daunting proposition. Which is of course their goal; but we shall endeavor to persevere.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Clyde - the bogus sketches are from the book - Charles Darwin "The Man and his Warfare" Ward, Henshaw. 1927
Your picture is obviously correct, which begs the questions: Where are the REAL Fuegians today?
And is there any depths that the White man will not sink, in orders to steal the Black mans history. Their disgusting addiction to racist lying makes understanding history, a daunting proposition. Which is of course their goal; but we shall endeavor to persevere.
Insignificant Mike posts again. Meanwhile, typically he ignores all posts that debunk him.
All of the pics have the same descriptions. So obviously that pic is not an actual sole pic, but is part of a collection.
Funny Clyde tried to say 1856, when it's really (1872-1876), and funny how he tried to make that image a sole picture and give the description among all the pics, as solely for that pic only, as the same description is provided for every pic, go figure....
Description: A photograph taken during the voyage of H.M.S. Challenger (1872-1876) funded by the British Government for scientific purposes. The expedition is believed to have been the first to carry an official photographer.
Poor Clyde, Marc, and Mike, each one gets destroyed in their own threads, lol.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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[rASHOL writes] Dr. Winters, your discourse may be suitable for confusing the likes of Marc Washington, but to any serious scholar, it consists of and utterly broken logic.
[Marc writes] You are talking about confusing discourse (well, you spelled the words correctly) and forget about the multitudinous conundrums sprouting from your own convoluted mind? What a joke.
Y-chromosome STRs (DYS434, DYS437, DYS439, DYS393, DYS391, DYS390, DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, and DYS388) and the biallelic system DYS199 were also amplified, Y-STR alleles could be characterized in nine cases, with an average of 4.1 loci per sample correctly typed. In two samples of the same ethnic group (Aonikenk), an identical and complete eight-loci haplotype was recovered. The DYS199 biallelic system was used as a control of contamination by modern DNA and, along with DYS19, as a marker of American origin. The analysis of both mtDNA and Y-STRs revealed DNA from ***Amerindian*** ancestry. The observed polymorphisms are consistent with the hypothesis that the ancient Fuegians are close to populations from south-central ***Chile and Argentina*** , but their high nucleotide diversity and the frequency of single lineages strongly support early genetic differentiation of the Fuegians through combined processes of population bottleneck, isolation, and/or migration, followed by strong genetic drift. This suggests an early genetic diversification of the Fuegians right after their arrival at the southernmost extreme of South America. Revue / Journal Title American journal of physical anthropology ISSN 0002-9483 Source / Source 2004, vol. 123, no4, pp. 361-370 [10 page(s) (article)] (47 ref.)
Clyde, from the above, where do you draw your conclusions? What scientists agree with you? What exact correlations do these two Y-chromosome STRs share, inparticularly, that would admonish what scientists say, which is due to OOA populations, Y cromosomal Adam, which is Haplogroup A, and not subsequent migrations OOA??? Fuegans don't carry Y-A1.
The mitochondrial DNAs (mtDNAs) from individuals belonging to three Chilean tribes, the Mapuche, the Pehuenche, and the Yaghan, were studied both by RFLP analysis and D-loop (control region) sequencing. RFLP analysis showed that 3 individuals (1.3%) belonged to haplogroup A, 19 (8%) to haplogroup B, 102 (43%) to haplogroup C, and 113 (47.7%) to haplogroup D. Among the 73 individuals analyzed by D-loop sequencing, we observed 37 different haplotypes defined by 52 polymorphic sites. Joint analysis of data obtained by RFLP and sequencing methods demonstrated that, regardless of the method of analysis, the mtDNA haplotypes of these three contemporary South American aborigine groups clustered into four main haplogroups, in a way similar to those previously described for other Amerindians. These results further revealed the absence of haplogroup A in both the Mapuche and Yaghan as well as the absence of haplogroup B in the Yaghan. These results suggest that the people of Tierra del Fuego are related to tribes from south-central South America.
I draw the conclusion based on the evidence. I am not like you waiting for Europeans to tell me what to think. I look at the evidence and reach my own conclusions based on that evidence.
This is how science operates . You make a theory hypothesis, collect the data and confirm or disconfirm the hypothesis.
Let me show you how this operates. First you make the research questions, and form your hypotheses.
Research Questions.
Q1. How did AMH reach America when the Beringa was covered with ice between 110kya and 13kya? This ice sheet made it impossible for AMH to cross into the American continent.
Q2.If people crossed the Beringa when the ice melted why are artifacts and skeletal remains relating to the colonization of America by AMH date back 32k BP?
Q3.Why are ancient skeletal remains found on the eastern side of the Americas near the Atlantic ocean currents, instead of the West coast which is nearest Asia?
Hypothesis 1 (H1) The first Anatomically modern humans (AMH) to settle the New World probably came from Africa.
H2. If the first AMH were from Africa, the skeletons of the ancient Americas would be similar to Africans.
H3. Since the earliest Americans date back 32kya they may have been related to the San who took civilization to Europe around this time.
H4. If the San were the first settlers of America they probably left genetic evidence of their former presence.
These hypothesis were confirmed.
H1 & H2. Neves et al make it clear the ancient skeletons resemble Melanesians and Africans. Since they could be either one, I choose African.
I chose Africans because they are the closest to the sites where AMH have been found plus they had the naval technology as indicated by the Dufuna canoe to make the voyage.
H3.The craniometrics indicate that the first inhabitants appear to resemble San, as does some of the reconstructions of faces based on the craniometrics.
H4. The identical STRs of Fuegians and San show a genetic relationship. There are reports of pygmies in various parts of South America especially Brazil. This suggest that the San and the pygmies introduced haplogroups A and B to the Americas. These genes are found in contemporary Amerind groups.
These findings confirm my hypothesis. I must accept that the first inhabitants of the Americas came from Africa, and that they were probably San, not Australians who represent the OOA population.
Now I hope you understand how researchers reach their own conclusions instead of waiting for someone to tell them how to think.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Clyde - the bogus sketches are from the book - Charles Darwin "The Man and his Warfare" Ward, Henshaw. 1927
Your picture is obviously correct, which begs the questions: Where are the REAL Fuegians today?
And is there any depths that the White man will not sink, in orders to steal the Black mans history. Their disgusting addiction to racist lying makes understanding history, a daunting proposition. Which is of course their goal; but we shall endeavor to persevere.
Insignificant Mike posts again. Meanwhile, typically he ignores all posts that debunk him.
All of the pics have the same descriptions. So obviously that pic is not an actual sole pic, but is part of a collection.
Funny Clyde tried to say 1856, when it's really (1872-1876), and funny how he tried to make that image a sole picture and give the description among all the pics, as solely for that pic only, as the same description is provided for every pic, go figure....
Description: A photograph taken during the voyage of H.M.S. Challenger (1872-1876) funded by the British Government for scientific purposes. The expedition is believed to have been the first to carry an official photographer.
Poor Clyde, Marc, and Mike, each one gets destroyed in their own threads, lol.
This is just a delusional thought based on your acceptance of white racism , self-hate and belief only Europeans are right--and what African people declare is wrong. You sad Coconut.
Let's look at the facts:
1) the Australians represent the OOA population that settled Asia
2) during the OOA event much of Siberia and North America was under ice from 110,000 - 10,000BC. As a result there was no way Siberians could cross Beringa before the end of the ice age
3) Ice even separated much of South America east to west .
. 4) the first Americans appear in Brazil, Chile and Argintina Latin America around 30,000 BC
5)using craniometric evidence it is clear that the first Americans look like Africans not modern Asian Native Americans
6) using craniometrics I have pointed out that Asia was dominated by the Australian population until the rise of Suhulland when the Melanesian people appear in the area, at this time the Beringa was still under Ice
7) I pointed out that the Melanesian type reach East Asian mainland by 5000 BC, long after Africans had settled Latin America
8) between 15,000-12,000 we see numerous African populations in Mexico and Brazil; and skeletons dating to this period have even been found off the Yucatan coast in the Caribbean
9) these first Americans did not look like the Australians or modern Amerinds
10) iconography of PreClassic people like the Cherla, Ocos and other groups is of Negroes not Amerinds like the Maya
11) Amerind groups not associated with African slaves carry African genes
12) Maya carried African y chromosome
13) Chontal Mayan speakers were classified as Negroes by Quatrefages. This may explain why the Maya carry African genes
14)Negrocostachicanos claim that they have never been slaves and are indigenous to Guererro and Oaxaca on the Pacific coast
15) The Dufuna boat makes it clear that Africans probably had the technology to travel to the Americas 15,000 years ago.
16) Fuegians 100-400 BP carried haplogroup A1. Hg A1 is an African haplogroup.
17) Amerinds carry haplogroup N, just like Africans.
18)The y chromosome STRs of the Fuegians include DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 (see: Garcia-Bour et al above). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 they are characteristic of haplogroup A1 . A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup.
19)Quatrefages noted numerous African Native American tribes
20)The antiquity of these populations is supported by the ancient iconography found in these countries which are of African Native Americans.
21) Most contemporary populations are descendants of the San people not Australians.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Clyde, you simply are making up stuff and do not know what on earth you are talking about. So please spare us your fake images and made up nonsense about what these people looked like.
I don't make things up. Here is the photo in question from the museum site.
Here is the picture along with the other Fuegian photographs
posted
^^^^^^^I will tell you Key. You hate yourself and other Blacks. You pretend to really like Black history but only on the terms defined by your masters. As a result anything done be Europeans is considered Right by you; while anything done by Blacks must be wrong because you don't have any confidence in yourself and it is impossible to have confidence in anyone Black.
Poor fool. Love your self, then you can respect and love others.
.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
But a the authentic Fuegian photos were recenty shot by the MNH, they none of them are 19th c. photo technology. Only the pencil/charcoal etches date to the 19th century. So much for accuracy from academia, humph.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
Title: Fuegian man, Native of Tierra del Fuego
Description: A photograph taken during the voyage of H.M.S. Challenger (1872-1876) funded by the British Government for scientific purposes. The expedition is believed to have been the first to carry an official photographer.
Nice. All of the pics have the same descriptions. So obviously that pic is not an actual sole pic, but is part of a collection.
... the same description is provided for every pic, go figure....
Description: A photograph taken during the voyage of H.M.S. Challenger (1872-1876) funded by the British Government for scientific purposes. The expedition is believed to have been the first to carry an official photographer.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Haplogroup A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup. This genetic data make it clear that Negro Fuegians were living in Fuego, 9000 years after Neves believed they had been replaced by mongoloid folk as illustrated by the pictures published above.
When you say Haplogroup A, do you mean the marker M91?
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: ^^^^^^^I will tell you Key. You hate yourself and other Blacks. You pretend to really like Black history but only on the terms defined by your masters. As a result anything done be Europeans is considered Right by you; while anything done by Blacks must be wrong because you don't have any confidence in yourself and it is impossible to have confidence in anyone Black.
Poor fool. Love your self, then you can respect and love others.
.
Lmao, Clyde. I base my conclusions off of OOA. Anthropology and genetics.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Y-chromosome STRs (DYS434, DYS437, DYS439, DYS393, DYS391, DYS390, DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, and DYS388) and the biallelic system DYS199 were also amplified, Y-STR alleles could be characterized in nine cases, with an average of 4.1 loci per sample correctly typed. In two samples of the same ethnic group (Aonikenk), an identical and complete eight-loci haplotype was recovered. The DYS199 biallelic system was used as a control of contamination by modern DNA and, along with DYS19, as a marker of American origin. The analysis of both mtDNA and Y-STRs revealed DNA from ***Amerindian*** ancestry. The observed polymorphisms are consistent with the hypothesis that the ancient Fuegians are close to populations from south-central ***Chile and Argentina*** , but their high nucleotide diversity and the frequency of single lineages strongly support early genetic differentiation of the Fuegians through combined processes of population bottleneck, isolation, and/or migration, followed by strong genetic drift. This suggests an early genetic diversification of the Fuegians right after their arrival at the southernmost extreme of South America. Revue / Journal Title American journal of physical anthropology ISSN 0002-9483 Source / Source 2004, vol. 123, no4, pp. 361-370 [10 page(s) (article)] (47 ref.)
Mapuche (Chile)
Pehuenche (Argentina)
Aonikenk-Man (Argentina)
Mitochondrial DNA polymorphisms in Chilean aboriginal populations: implications for the peopling of the southern cone of the continent.
The mitochondrial DNAs (mtDNAs) from individuals belonging to three Chilean tribes, the Mapuche, the Pehuenche, and the Yaghan, were studied both by RFLP analysis and D-loop (control region) sequencing. RFLP analysis showed that 3 individuals (1.3%) belonged to haplogroup A, 19 (8%) to haplogroup B, 102 (43%) to haplogroup C, and 113 (47.7%) to haplogroup D. Among the 73 individuals analyzed by D-loop sequencing, we observed 37 different haplotypes defined by 52 polymorphic sites. Joint analysis of data obtained by RFLP and sequencing methods demonstrated that, regardless of the method of analysis, the mtDNA haplotypes of these three contemporary South American aborigine groups clustered into four main haplogroups, in a way similar to those previously described for other Amerindians. These results further revealed the absence of haplogroup A in both the Mapuche and Yaghan as well as the absence of haplogroup B in the Yaghan. These results suggest that the people of Tierra del Fuego are related to tribes from south-central South America.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: But a the authentic Fuegian photos were recenty shot by the MNH, they none of them are 19th c. photo technology. Only the pencil/charcoal etches date to the 19th century. So much for accuracy from academia, humph.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
Title: Fuegian man, Native of Tierra del Fuego
Description: A photograph taken during the voyage of H.M.S. Challenger (1872-1876) funded by the British Government for scientific purposes. The expedition is believed to have been the first to carry an official photographer.
Nice. All of the pics have the same descriptions. So obviously that pic is not an actual sole pic, but is part of a collection.
... the same description is provided for every pic, go figure....
Description: A photograph taken during the voyage of H.M.S. Challenger (1872-1876) funded by the British Government for scientific purposes. The expedition is believed to have been the first to carry an official photographer.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Clyde - the bogus sketches are from the book - Charles Darwin "The Man and his Warfare" Ward, Henshaw. 1927
Your picture is obviously correct, which begs the questions: Where are the REAL Fuegians today?
And is there any depths that the White man will not sink, in orders to steal the Black mans history. Their disgusting addiction to racist lying makes understanding history, a daunting proposition. Which is of course their goal; but we shall endeavor to persevere.
Here is the photo in question
Here is the picture along with the other Fuegian photographs
The signature six microsatellites in YAP and M174 are DYS19, DYS388,DYS390, DYS5391,DYS392 and DYS393. These microsatellites that usually define M174, are also found among the Khoisan.
This indicates that the Fuegians carry genes introduced by the Khoisan who would have been the first people to colonize Americas.
Y-chromosome STRs (DYS434, DYS437, DYS439, DYS393, DYS391, DYS390, DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, and DYS388) and the biallelic system DYS199 were also amplified, Y-STR alleles could be characterized in nine cases, with an average of 4.1 loci per sample correctly typed. In two samples of the same ethnic group (Aonikenk), an identical and complete eight-loci haplotype was recovered. The DYS199 biallelic system was used as a control of contamination by modern DNA and, along with DYS19, as a marker of American origin. The analysis of both mtDNA and Y-STRs revealed DNA from ***Amerindian*** ancestry. The observed polymorphisms are consistent with the hypothesis that the ancient Fuegians are close to populations from south-central ***Chile and Argentina*** , but their high nucleotide diversity and the frequency of single lineages strongly support early genetic differentiation of the Fuegians through combined processes of population bottleneck, isolation, and/or migration, followed by strong genetic drift. This suggests an early genetic diversification of the Fuegians right after their arrival at the southernmost extreme of South America. Revue / Journal Title American journal of physical anthropology ISSN 0002-9483 Source / Source 2004, vol. 123, no4, pp. 361-370 [10 page(s) (article)] (47 ref.)
Mapuche (Chile)
Pehuenche (Argentina)
Aonikenk-Man (Argentina)
Mitochondrial DNA polymorphisms in Chilean aboriginal populations: implications for the peopling of the southern cone of the continent.
The mitochondrial DNAs (mtDNAs) from individuals belonging to three Chilean tribes, the Mapuche, the Pehuenche, and the Yaghan, were studied both by RFLP analysis and D-loop (control region) sequencing. RFLP analysis showed that 3 individuals (1.3%) belonged to haplogroup A, 19 (8%) to haplogroup B, 102 (43%) to haplogroup C, and 113 (47.7%) to haplogroup D. Among the 73 individuals analyzed by D-loop sequencing, we observed 37 different haplotypes defined by 52 polymorphic sites. Joint analysis of data obtained by RFLP and sequencing methods demonstrated that, regardless of the method of analysis, the mtDNA haplotypes of these three contemporary South American aborigine groups clustered into four main haplogroups, in a way similar to those previously described for other Amerindians. These results further revealed the absence of haplogroup A in both the Mapuche and Yaghan as well as the absence of haplogroup B in the Yaghan. These results suggest that the people of Tierra del Fuego are related to tribes from south-central South America.
As I noted earlier these people practice cremation. There is a very good chance that the pictures you have posted may not relate to the population from which these skeletons came.
quote: The signature six microsatellites in YAP and M174 are DYS19, DYS388,DYS390, DYS5391,DYS392 and DYS393. These microsatellites that usually define M174, are also found among the Khoisan.
This indicates that the Fuegians carry genes introduced by the Khoisan who would have been the first people to colonize Americas.
Again Clyde hapologroup D, found amongst Native Americans is an Mtdna marker, whereas the Y-dna haplogroup D, defined by the M174 mutation, is not present in Native Americans. Khoisan carry Y-dna haplogroup A, the Native Americans carry Mtdna haplogroup A.
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quote: The signature six microsatellites in YAP and M174 are DYS19, DYS388,DYS390, DYS5391,DYS392 and DYS393. These microsatellites that usually define M174, are also found among the Khoisan.
This indicates that the Fuegians carry genes introduced by the Khoisan who would have been the first people to colonize Americas.
Again Clyde hapologroup D, found amongst Native Americans is an Mtdna marker, whereas the Y-dna haplogroup D, defined by the M174 mutation, is not present in Native Americans. Khoisan carry Y-dna haplogroup A, the Native Americans carry Mtdna haplogroup A.
Are you saying that the researchers below did not find these STRs among Fuegians?
Y-chromosome STRs (DYS434, DYS437, DYS439, DYS393, DYS391, DYS390, DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, and DYS388) and the biallelic system DYS199 were also amplified, Y-STR alleles could be characterized in nine cases, with an average of 4.1 loci per sample correctly typed. In two samples of the same ethnic group (Aonikenk), an identical and complete eight-loci haplotype was recovered. The DYS199 biallelic system was used as a control of contamination by modern DNA and, along with DYS19, as a marker of American origin. The analysis of both mtDNA and Y-STRs revealed DNA from ***Amerindian*** ancestry. The observed polymorphisms are consistent with the hypothesis that the ancient Fuegians are close to populations from south-central ***Chile and Argentina*** , but their high nucleotide diversity and the frequency of single lineages strongly support early genetic differentiation of the Fuegians through combined processes of population bottleneck, isolation, and/or migration, followed by strong genetic drift. This suggests an early genetic diversification of the Fuegians right after their arrival at the southernmost extreme of South America. Revue / Journal Title American journal of physical anthropology ISSN 0002-9483 Source / Source 2004, vol. 123, no4, pp. 361-370 [10 page(s) (article)] (47 ref.)
quote: Are you saying that the researchers below did not find these STRs among Fuegians?
This is what the researchers are saying Clyde.....
The analysis of both mtDNA and Y-STRs revealed DNA from ***Amerindian*** ancestry. The observed polymorphisms are consistent with the hypothesis that the ancient Fuegians are close to populations from south-central ***Chile and Argentina***
Mapuche (Chile)
Pehuenche (Argentina)
Aonikenk-Man (Argentina)
Again Clyde hapologroup D, found amongst Native Americans is an Mtdna marker, whereas the Y-dna haplogroup D, defined by the M174 mutation, is not present in Native Americans. Khoisan carry Y-dna haplogroup A, the Native Americans carry Mtdna haplogroup A.
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quote: The signature six microsatellites in YAP and M174 are DYS19, DYS388,DYS390, DYS5391,DYS392 and DYS393. These microsatellites that usually define M174, are also found among the Khoisan.
This indicates that the Fuegians carry genes introduced by the Khoisan who would have been the first people to colonize Americas.
Again Clyde hapologroup D, found amongst Native Americans is an Mtdna marker, whereas the Y-dna haplogroup D, defined by the M174 mutation, is not present in Native Americans. Khoisan carry Y-dna haplogroup A, the Native Americans carry Mtdna haplogroup A.
Are you claiming that King et al, don't know the difference between a Y-chromosome and mtDNA?
quote:
Diversity of Y-STR haplotypes of chromosomes belonging to hgA1 and within the R surname. (a) Relationships of Y-STR haplotypes within hgA1. Weighted median joining network containing the 10-locus Y-STR haplotypes (DYS19, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS389I, DYS389II-I) of eleven hgA1 chromosomes. Circles represent haplotypes, with area proportional to frequency and colored according to population.
European Journal of Human Genetics (2007) 15, 288–293. doi:10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201771; published online 24 January 2007 Africans in Yorkshire? The deepest-rooting clade of the Y phylogeny within an English genealogy Turi E King1
quote: Are you saying that the researchers below did not find these STRs among Fuegians?
This is what the researchers are saying Clyde.....
The analysis of both mtDNA and Y-STRs revealed DNA from ***Amerindian*** ancestry. The observed polymorphisms are consistent with the hypothesis that the ancient Fuegians are close to populations from south-central ***Chile and Argentina***
Mapuche (Chile)
Pehuenche (Argentina)
Aonikenk-Man (Argentina)
Again Clyde hapologroup D, found amongst Native Americans is an Mtdna marker, whereas the Y-dna haplogroup D, defined by the M174 mutation, is not present in Native Americans. Khoisan carry Y-dna haplogroup A, the Native Americans carry Mtdna haplogroup A.
You have not answered my question. I am talking about the specific data these authors published in the work which they describe as haplotypes, Y-STRs. Are they wrong, while you're right?
quote:Are you claiming that King et al, don't know the difference between a Y-chromosome and mtDNA?
Of course he does. I am saying you don't lol. Therein lies the problem. Native Americans don't carry Y-haplogroup A or D.
quote: You have not answered my question. I am talking about the specific data these authors published in the work which they describe as haplotypes, Y-STRs. Are they wrong, while you're right?
This is what the researchers are saying Clyde.....
The analysis of both mtDNA and Y-STRs **revealed** DNA from ***Amerindian*** ancestry. The observed polymorphisms are consistent with the hypothesis that the ancient Fuegians are close to populations from south-central ***Chile and Argentina***
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The mitochondrial DNAs (mtDNAs) from individuals belonging to three Chilean tribes, the Mapuche, the Pehuenche, and the Yaghan, were studied both by RFLP analysis and D-loop (control region) sequencing. RFLP analysis showed that 3 individuals (1.3%) belonged to haplogroup A, 19 (8%) to haplogroup B, 102 (43%) to haplogroup C, and 113 (47.7%) to haplogroup D. Among the 73 individuals analyzed by D-loop sequencing, we observed 37 different haplotypes defined by 52 polymorphic sites. Joint analysis of data obtained by RFLP and sequencing methods demonstrated that, regardless of the method of analysis, the mtDNA haplotypes of these three contemporary South American aborigine groups clustered into four main haplogroups, in a way similar to those previously described for other Amerindians. These results further revealed the absence of haplogroup A in both the Mapuche and Yaghan as well as the absence of haplogroup B in the Yaghan. These results suggest that the people of Tierra del Fuego are related to tribes from south-central South America.
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: ]There is no question that the original African Americans have mixed with Amerinds and now you rarely see the African type. But genetic research makes it clear that the original Fuegians were Black/African people.
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There is no question they were black Clyde. Nobody is disagreeing with that. However, nobody agrees that they were from Africa and therefore Africans. YOU are the only one trying to call these people Africans. They are not Africans, no more than the aborigines of Asia are Africans.
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: ]There is no question that the original African Americans have mixed with Amerinds and now you rarely see the African type. But genetic research makes it clear that the original Fuegians were Black/African people.
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There is no question they were black Clyde. Nobody is disagreeing with that. However, nobody agrees that they were from Africa and therefore Africans. YOU are the only one trying to call these people Africans. They are not Africans, no more than the aborigines of Asia are Africans.
Again, this is the misunderstanding Clyde has with OOA, he doesn't understand that there is no genetic evidence of populations migrating post OOA, directly from Africa into Europe. Clyde fails to understand that anthropological and genetic evidence trumps his hypothesis's.
As we can see from anthropological remains, populations retained an OOA phenotype for tens of thousands of years, before morphologically adapting to their present phenotypes in Europe and Asia. Changes were gradual, of course, but recent European and East Asian pale phenotypes is an end Mesolithic-Neolithic adaptation, as is the post OOA lineages into Europeans. Due to Europeans recent post OOA Neolithic African admixture into their population.
quote:Y-chromosome STRs (DYS434, DYS437, DYS439, DYS393, DYS391, DYS390, DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, and DYS388) and the biallelic system DYS199 were also amplified, Y-STR alleles could be characterized in nine cases, with an average of 4.1 loci per sample correctly typed.
The analysis of both mtDNA and Y-STRs **revealed** DNA from ***Amerindian*** ancestry. The observed polymorphisms are consistent with the hypothesis that the ancient Fuegians are close to populations from south-central ***Chile and Argentina***
Note Clyde, the Y STRs you're attributing to Fuegians, are actually STR's in which were amplified in the study, but the analysis clearly reveals Mtda and Y-STRs of Native American ancestry, not recent post OOA. Sorry Clyde, just more misinterpretations of genetics on your part.
quote: Y Chromosome-Specific STRs By Leonor Gusmão1 and Angel Carracedo2 1Instituto de Patologia e Imunologia, Molecular da Universidade do Porto, Porto, Portugal and 2Institute of Legal Medicine, University of Santiago de Compostela, Santiago de Compostela, Spain
Y-STRs are the most used Y chromosome markers in the forensic field due to their typing simplicity and high level of diversity. STR typing involves simple and reliable polymerase chain reaction (PCR)(a) techniques and is tolerant of very degraded samples. Of all Y chromosome polymorphic STRs described to date, DYS19, DYS385, DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393 and YCAII have more data accumulated, being the most used in population and forensic genetics. Because of collaborative efforts to construct large databases (see www.ystr.org,www.ystr.org/usa and www.ystr.org/asia), these markers are the best characterized for amplification performance and specificity, multiplex amplification strategies, sequence structure and nomenclature, as well as worldwide allele frequency distributions.
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posted
^^^^So.... Africans without full facial features, wooly or wiry hair is not really African?
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quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington: Using a morphological paradigm for African includes all who have full facial features given to woolly or wiry hair.
That is your own delusional morphological paradigm for african, not the anthropologists' one who is that of paleolithic individuals.
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posted
He means this woman is not African because she has not wolly hair or full facial features. Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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Mike D. What race is Tony Blair? Mongolian, African, or white? He is white.
Here is how your logic works when looking at the uniform characteristics of people with full facial features given to woolly or wiry hair as Africans. You like the schizophrenic approach dividing them into an infinite number of identities. Let's see how this type of "logic" you invoke works.
Tony Blair is white and let's say he had sextuplets that all resembled him. One goes to Australia. Another to New Zealand. Another to China. Another to Japan. Another to Mexico. Another to France.
According to your backwards way of defining things, they wouldn't be called white. They'd be called Australian, New Zealander, Japanese, and so forth. On the level of nationality it would be legitimate.
Yet, anyone looking at them would call them white.
Same with African. A rose by any other name is still a rose.
Except you have babies when considering the fact that Africans have a unity as if the word itself gives you the heebeejeebees. You are a closet racist.
Chill out.
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I didn't say Africans "had woolly hair." I said they were "given to woolly hair." In other words, have a tendency to have woolly hair. Meaning not all do; some don't.
I see your picture of the African woman with straight hair. Earlier in this thread I already addressed such hair as my mother and sister have such hair. I wrote of Donna Rice having such hair:
Not all will agree, but some Africans will be found with wavy hair. Others have curly hair. Sometimes, Africans have straight hair as the Afro-American U.S. Secretary of State, Donna Rice (these cases the result of miscegenation from the days of slavery and after). http://www.beforebc.de/index2.html
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I didn't say Africans "had woolly hair." I said they were "given to woolly hair." In other words, have a tendency to have woolly hair. Meaning not all do; some don't.
Paleolithic individual are related to Africans, but they aren't Africans per se.
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Mike D. What race is Tony Blair? Mongolian, African, or white? He is white.
Here is how your logic works when looking at the uniform characteristics of people with full facial features given to woolly or wiry hair as Africans. You like the schizophrenic approach dividing them into an infinite number of identities. Let's see how this type of "logic" you invoke works.
Tony Blair is white and let's say he had sextuplets that all resembled him. One goes to Australia. Another to New Zealand. Another to China. Another to Japan. Another to Mexico. Another to France.
According to your backwards way of defining things, they wouldn't be called white. They'd be called Australian, New Zealander, Japanese, and so forth. On the level of nationality it would be legitimate.
Yet, anyone looking at them would call them white.
Same with African. A rose by any other name is still a rose.
Except you have babies when considering the fact that Africans have a unity as if the word itself gives you the heebeejeebees. You are a closet racist.
Chill out.
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Actually Marc it is you being inconsistent and backwards in your definitions. Are the aborigines of Australia and New Guinea Africans? Yes or no?
The point you fail to realize is that Africans as the BASIS of all humanity are also the MOST DIVERSE population on earth. They have more features as a group than any other group combined. You can find features in Africa that match almost any other group on the face of the planet. And if you take into account the aboriginal black populations who are DIRECTLY related to the OOA migrations that populated the earth, you will find EVEN MORE diversity. ALL of these populations are black, ALL of them are the most ancient form of mankind. ALL of them are the basis OF ALL features found in ALL humans.
Therefore, saying that they are Africans is not saying much since IT IS A GIVEN that ALL aboriginal people came from Africa and ALL aboriginal features therefore are DIRECTLY related to the first OOA populations that migrated worldwide. There is no need to call them Africans TWICE as the FACT that they are aboriginal IN ITSELF says that they are closest to the ORIGINAL OOA migrants in a particular area to begin with. But another reason that calling them African is erroneous is because many of these aborigines also have DIFFERENCES in features both between THEMSELVES and FROM AFRICANS that are the result of LOCAL changes due to adaptation. They are still black and still the CLOSEST to the OOA populations, but they are NOT AFRICANS.
You aren't EXPLAINING anything or CLARIFYING anything by calling them Africans, as everyone knows that ALL humans ultimately come from Africa. But that DOES NOT explain how these populations got to ALL PARTS of the planet. Saying that the first native Americans were AFRICANS is saying that they were DIRECT migrants from Africa. But there is no EVIDENCE for this. THERE IS evidence that the first ABORIGINAL populations of the Americas RETAINED many features found among OTHER ABORIGINAL populations, which is BLACK SKIN and FEATURES close to those people who migrated OOA. Other than that, it does not NEED to be said that they were Africans, because THEY DID NOT come directly from Africa to the Americas.
THAT is what you and Clyde keep harping on, WITH NO PROOF. While the OVERWHELMING evidence of the first people in the Americas BEING BLACK goes right over your head.
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I'm not Knowledge, but here you go!
Andamanese woman of Southeast Asia
I hope this helps.
The Andamanese and Munda people live in South Asia stupid, not Southeast Asia.
Uhh, the Andaman Islands while under political Indian hegemony is located in Southeast Asia, and technically part of the Sudanese continental shelf that the Malay peninsula is part of!!..
MORON!!
I suggest you do research first before writing. Then again, all you write is B.S. anyway!
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I'm not Knowledge, but here you go!
Andamanese woman of Southeast Asia
I hope this helps.
The Andamanese and Munda people live in South Asia stupid, not Southeast Asia.
Uhh, the Andaman Islands while under political Indian hegemony is located in Southeast Asia, and technically part of the Sudanese continental shelf that the Malay peninsula is part of!!..
MORON!!
I suggest you do research first before writing. Then again, all you write is B.S. anyway!
Stupid Troll the Andaman Islands are not part of the Sudanese continental shelf.
Southeast Asian Woman
Above is a Southeast Asian woman. She does not in anyway resemble the San and Munda people of India and Andaman Island.
Doug writes: Therefore, saying that they are Africans is not saying much since IT IS A GIVEN that ALL aboriginal people came from Africa and ALL aboriginal features therefore are DIRECTLY related to the first OOA populations that migrated worldwide. There is no need to call them Africans TWICE as the FACT that they are aboriginal IN ITSELF says that they are closest to the ORIGINAL OOA migrants in a particular area to begin with. But another reason that calling them African is erroneous is because many of these aborigines also have DIFFERENCES in features both between THEMSELVES and FROM AFRICANS that are the result of LOCAL changes due to adaptation.
Marc writes: Look. Like I said, I don’t need no white boy telling me who is and isn’t African. I am not using your damn geographical definition of “African” or your “not good to call them ‘twice’ African” bull.
Yes features vary. Again. Tony Blair is ___. Bruce Lee is ___. Wesley Snipes is ___. We know who they are because of a small group of features and Africans share a small group of features not found in whites and Asians. They have full facial features and are given to woolly or wiry hair.
Look. Chill out and get a life.
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posted
The only question I got for you Marc, is what are these people:
What all your silly cartoons and photo shop skills fails to address is the above, along with your false concepts about the migrations of Africans throughout the planet that have NO BEARING on reality.
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Doug writes: The only question I got for you Marc, is what are these people:
Marc writes: My work has a specific focus and many of the people above would not appear on my pages. Of those pictures I'd only select this one:
The following, for the third time in this thread, is the population I focus on:
THE THREE GREAT RACES AND THEIR MERGERS: The three great races are the Mongul, the White, and African. Until near 2300 BC, they were completely isolated from each other but since have mixed creating new sub-races as in Southeast Asia and the Pacific. The present work focuses not on the sub-races or Mongul or White but African.
Some of the others I'd account for as being descendents of the Monguls, descendents of Ghengis Khan mixing with Africans.
What have you done? You have chosen diverse populations from Southeast Asia. Below are faces of Africans in Southeast Asia who have no Mongul or white blood.
My work draws attention to the fact that the "pure" Africans I show are evidence of the fact that at one time there were ONLY PURE AFRICANS before their lands were flooded with Monguls and whites who admixed with them producing peoples such as those you've shown.
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