quote: 1. Sub-Saharan Africa. The first population in the ordering are the San, who are hunter gatherers that live in Southern Africa. Before the Bantu expansion over the last 3,000 years, the ancestors of the San occupied most of Southern Africa, but they have been progressively displaced and currently are restricted to a few pockets [17]. The San contributed ancestry to the next four populations (the Biaka Pygmies, Bantu from South Africa and Kenya, and Mbuti Pygmies) but none subsequent to that. The Bantu are inferred to have contributed to each subsequent African population.
8. The Americas. The Colombians are the first Amerind population. 47% of their ancestry can be traced via the Hazara, which is marginally less than typical East Asian populations such as the Han (54%) or Xibo (59%) (Movie S2, Table S3). However, within the descendents of the putative EastAsia bottleneck, their donor pool is diverse, implying that none of the populations in the sample provides a good proxy for the original group or groups that crossed the Bering straight. The Colombians also have French donors, which may reflect post-Colombian admixture. The second American population, the Pima, represents the first North American population. As well as using all 7 Colombians as donors, it uses 8 Mongolians and 4 Oroquen. Neither of these populations acted as donors to the Colombians, suggesting distinct colonization events from different sources. Subsequent American populations did not have any non-Amerind donors, except for the Mayans who have Bantu and Tuscan donors, presumably due to post-Columbian admixture [18].
quote:Since you understand what science is about falsify the 21 propositions I have confirmed in support of my hypotheses.
I did, right here...
^ You responded by whining that I argue from 'authority' instead of doing 'original research'..
This is juxtaposed to what you do:
Argue from 'senility' and confuse ridiculous claims, with 'research'.
Silly child. You can use a chart to explain away a thesis. You have to present specific evidence to disconfirm my evidence this chart does nothing to dispute my findings. But you're just being yourself by being a clown.
This behavior of lying is what make you the Forum clown. Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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You're such a moron. Stop acting like you are brainless and disprove my findings. This garbage has nothing to do with my propositions.
Let's look at the facts:
1) the Australians represent the OOA population that settled Asia
2) during the OOA event much of Siberia and North America was under ice from 110,000 - 10,000BC. As a result there was no way Siberians could cross Beringa before the end of the ice age
3) Ice even separated much of South America east to west .
. 4) the first Americans appear in Brazil, Chile and Argintina Latin America around 30,000 BC
5)using craniometric evidence it is clear that the first Americans look like Africans not modern Asian Native Americans
6) using craniometrics I have pointed out that Asia was dominated by the Australian population until the rise of Suhulland when the Melanesian people appear in the area, at this time the Beringa was still under Ice
7) I pointed out that the Melanesian type reach East Asian mainland by 5000 BC, long after Africans had settled Latin America
8) between 15,000-12,000 we see numerous African populations in Mexico and Brazil; and skeletons dating to this period have even been found off the Yucatan coast in the Caribbean
9) these first Americans did not look like the Australians or modern Amerinds
10) iconography of PreClassic people like the Cherla, Ocos and other groups is of Negroes not Amerinds like the Maya
11) Amerind groups not associated with African slaves carry African genes
12) Maya carried African y chromosome
13) Chontal Mayan speakers were classified as Negroes by Quatrefages. This may explain why the Maya carry African genes
14)Negrocostachicanos claim that they have never been slaves and are indigenous to Guererro and Oaxaca on the Pacific coast
15) The Dufuna boat makes it clear that Africans probably had the technology to travel to the Americas 15,000 years ago.
16) Fuegians 100-400 BP carried haplogroup A1. Hg A1 is an African haplogroup.
17) Amerinds carry haplogroup N, just like Africans.
18)The y chromosome STRs of the Fuegians include DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 (see: Garcia-Bour et al above). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 they are characteristic of haplogroup A1 . A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup.
19)Quatrefages noted numerous African Native American tribes
20)The antiquity of these populations is supported by the ancient iconography found in these countries which are of African Native Americans.
21) Most contemporary populations are descendants of the San people not Australians.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:Posted by Clyde Fraud: In this paper, King et al make it clear that the “Y-STR haplotypes (DYS19, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS389I, DYS389II-I) of eleven hgA1 chromosomes. “ belong to hg A1.^ Ancient mtDNA was succesfully recovered from 24 skeletal samples of a total of 60 ancient individuals from Patagonia-Tierra del Fuego, dated to 100-400 years BP, for which consistent amplifications and two-strand sequences were obtained. Y-chromosome STRs (DYS434, DYS437, DYS439, DYS393, DYS391, DYS390, DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, and DYS388) 18)The y chromosome STRs of the Fuegians include DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 (see: Garcia-Bour et al above). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 they are characteristic of haplogroup A1 . A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup.
Again, hopefully Clyde will understand sooner than later. Clyde your continuous distortion of genetics is completely laughable at best. The Fuegians do not carry Y chromosome A, nor D, therefore the M174 you speak of is not present in Fuegians at all. The difference between Y-dna and Mtdna needs to be understood before you can distinguish haplogroups. Clyde you've failed so far. Native American carry A and D haplogroups but they're Mtdna haplogroups, not Y-dna. Fuegians do not carry Y-dna haplogroups A nor D.
The same Y-strs are amplified/analyzed in many studies.
An extremely informative Y-STR core set or minimal haplotype (minHt) amplifiable in a multiplex reaction has been recommended for court use : DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS385ab (Kayser et al. 1997), (Pascali et al. 1999). This core haplotype can be extended by other hypervariable Y-STR loci (DYS438, DYS439, DYS437, DYS448, DYS456, DYS458, DYS635, YGATAH4) to further increase the power of discrimination (Ayub et al. 2000), (Redd et al. 2002), (Mulero et al. 2006).
quote: Int J Legal Med. 2005 Sep ;119 (5):303-5 15834734 (P,S,G,E,B) Polish population study on Y chromosome haplotypes defined by 18 STR loci.
Polymorphism of 18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome (DYS19, DYS388 , DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390 , DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS426, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS460, GATA H4.1, DYS385 a/b, and YCAII a/b) was evaluated by means of a multiplex (octadecaplex) PCR reaction and capillary electrophoresis in a Polish population sample of 208 unrelated males. A total of 192 different haplotypes and 183 unique haplotypes were identified. The observed haplotype diversity was 0.998, while discrimination capacity was 92.3%. DYS389 was shown to be the most valuable in discrimination of similar haplotypes, whereas DYS388, DYS393, DYS426, and DYS438 did not affect the discrimination power of the multiplex.
If you could not cross the Beringa until 14kya and all the skeletons of ancient inhabitants are found near the Atlantic coastline the people had to have come from Africa given the fact the carniometrics indicate that they were of the African variety, and ice blocked any possible movement of people from the Pacific to Argintina and Chile where some of the evidence of early man has been found.
The first Americans did not cross the Bearing Straits to enter the Americas.The earliest sites for Negroes date between 20,000 and 40000 years ago Old Crow Basin Canada(38,000BC) Pedra Furada (45,000BC) Brazil. These people were pygmies and bushman types according to Dr. Dixon, & Dr. Marquez(p.179).
Chile: Monteverde (12,500 years), Tierra del Fuego, Cueva de Fell, Tres Arroyos and some other places.
There are older ones in the Argentinian Patagonia.
quote:
—Patagonia was the world's last place to be colonized by humans. In Arica there have been found remains of 9,000 years; the same in a place at the High Aconcagua and Huentelauquén. In Chile we have more than half of the continent's most ancient human skeletons, all well dated and documented.
Archaeologists believe they have discovered a 13,600-year-old human skeleton deep in a Caribbean underwater cave, making it the oldest ever found in the Americas. The discovery could have profound effects on theories of how humans first reached North America.
The female skeleton, called Eve of Naharon, was found with three other human skeletons in underwater caves along the coast of the Yucatan Peninsula. Excavation of a fourth skeleton – possibly even older than Eve – begins this month in a nearby cave.
The three other skeletons found with Eve have been radiocarbon-dated from 11,000 to 14,000 years ago.
All were found in underwater caves about 50 feet below the surface. At the time Eve and the others would have lived there, the sea level was about 200 feet lower, and the Yucatan Peninsula was a dry prairie. Melting of the polar ice caps 9,000 years ago submerged the burial ground and the subsequent growth of stalactites and stalagmites kept the skeletons from being washed out to sea.
In 1959 archaeologists found the Penon woman skeleton at Mexico City.
[/b] Penon Woman[/b]
Penon woman has been characterized as a Negro and is physically different from Native Americans. The Penon skeleton has been dated between 12,500-15,000BP. The skull of Penon woman is dolichocephalic like most Negroes, not brachysephalic (short and braod) like modern Native Americans. She is related to the Fuegians of Parana Argentina and the Luizia population of Brazil.
Here we have a comparison of ancient skulls found in the Americas.
In the picture above we have three ancient American skulls. They are a) Penon woman (12.755 Ka), b) Texcal Man (9.5ka) and c) Pericue Indian (18th Century). If you look notice Pericue man shows broad features characteristic of the mongoloid type, while both Penon and Texcul do not.
Some researchers claim that these skeletons are of Australian or Melanesian Blacks. This is highly unlikely given the fact that that have been found near the Atlantic Ocean and suggestive of a migration from Africa to Mexico, like the migration of the Olmec 11,000 years later. This view is supported by the discovery of the so-called Eva Neharon skeleton (c.13,600 ) dating to around the same period found in the Caribbean.
By 11,500 we see the appearence tall Negroes from Africa in Colombia, Venezuela and Brazil e.g.,Luiza. Negroes settled America both from the Bearing & South America. Cite an archaeological site where Amerind skeletons have been found prior to the Negro skeletons.
quote:
Oldest Skeleton in Americas Found in Underwater Cave? Eliza Barclay for National Geographic News
September 3, 2008
Deep inside an underwater cave in Mexico, archaeologists may have discovered the oldest human skeleton ever found in the Americas.
Dubbed Eva de Naharon, or Eve of Naharon, the female skeleton has been dated at 13,600 years old. If that age is accurate, the skeleton—along with three others found in underwater caves along the Caribbean coast of the Yucatán Peninsula—could provide new clues to how the Americas were first populated.
The remains have been excavated over the past four years near the town of Tulum, about 80 miles southwest of Cancún, by a team of scientists led by Arturo González, director of the Desert Museum in Saltillo, Mexico (see map of Mexico).
"We don't now how [the people whose remains were found in the caves] arrived and whether they came from the Atlantic, the jungle, or inside the continent," González said.
"But we believe these finds are the oldest yet to be found in the Americas and may influence our theories of how the first people arrived."
In addition to possibly altering the time line of human settlement in the Americas, the remains may cause experts to rethink where the first Americans came from, González added.
Clues from the skeletons' skulls hint that the people may not be of northern Asian descent, which would contradict the dominant theory of New World settlement. That theory holds that ancient humans first came to North America from northern Asia via a now submerged land bridge across the Bering Sea (see an interactive map of ancient human migration).
"The shape of the skulls has led us to believe that Eva and the others have more of an affinity with people from South Asia than North Asia," González explained.
Concepción Jiménez, director of physical anthropology at Mexico's National Institute of Anthropology and History, has viewed the finds and says they may be Mexico's oldest and most important human remains to date.
"Eva de Naharon has the Paleo-Indian characteristics that make the date seem very plausible," Jiménez said.
Ancient Floods, Giant Animals
The three other skeletons excavated in the caves have been given a date range of 11,000 to 14,000 years ago, based on radiocarbon dating.
Radiocarbon dating measures the age of organic materials based on their content of the radioactive isotope carbon 14.
According to archaeologist David Anderson of the University of Tennessee, however, minerals in seawater can sometimes alter the carbon 14 content of bones, resulting in inaccurate radiocarbon dating results.
The remains were found some 50 feet (15 meters) below sea level in the caves off Tulum. But at the time Eve of Naharon is believed to have lived there, sea levels were 200 feet (60 meters) lower, and the Yucatán Peninsula was a wide, dry prairie.
The polar ice caps melted dramatically 8,000 to 9,000 years ago, causing sea levels to rise hundreds of feet and submerging the burial grounds of the skeletons. Stalactites and stalagmites then grew around the remains, preventing them from being washed out to sea.
González has also found remains of elephants, giant sloths, and other ancient fauna in the caves.
(Learn more about how caves form.)
Human Migration Theories
If González's finds do stand up to scientific scrutiny, they will raise many interesting new questions about how the Americas were first peopled.
Many researchers once believed humans entered the New World from Asia as a single group crossing over the Bering Land Bridge no earlier than 13,500 years ago. But that theory is lately being debunked.
Remains found in Monte Verde, Chile, in 1997, for example, point to the presence of people in the Americas at least 12,500 years ago, long before migration would have been possible through the ice-covered Arctic reaches of North America.
(Related: "Clovis People Not First Americans, Study Shows" [February 23, 2007].)
Confirmation of Eve of Naharon's age could further revolutionize the thinking about the settlement of the Americas.
This September, González will begin excavating the fourth skeleton, known as Chan hol, which he says could be even older than Eve.
The Chan hol remains include more than ten teeth, which will allow researchers to date the specimen and gather information about Chan hol's diet.
"When we learn more about the [Mexican finds] we'll be able to better evaluate them," said Carlos Lorenzo, a researcher at the Universitat Rovira i Virgili in Tarragona, Spain, an expert on the subject who was not involved in the current study.
"But in any case, if it's confirmed that Eva de Naharon is 13,000 years old, it will be a fantastic and extraordinary finding for understanding the first settlers of America."
González said he and his team hope to publish the full results of their analysis after the excavation of the fourth skeleton.
"We're not yet in the phase of research of determining how they arrived," he said. "But when we have more evidence we may be able to determine that."
USA 28,000-25,000 14C y.a. This vegetation map showing the eastern USA during the period 28,000-25,000 14C y.a. has been compiled by Paul & Hazel Delcourt. An ice sheet already covered most of Canada and extended south of the Great Lakes. Boreal conifer woodlands and forests predominated in what is now the cool temperate forest zone, and the cool and warm temperate forest belts were compressed southwards.
The last ice age in North America lasted between 110,000 and 17,000BP. The ice-free corridor on the eastern flank of the Rockies did not open before 13,000 years ago. Africans were in the Americas long before the end of the last Ice Age when the “Siberians”, who also were more than likely Africans began to cross the Bearing Straits. By 12,500 BC Africans were already living in Chile.
Stop trying to steal the heritage of the Black people like the Olmecs, who represent the Mother Culture of Mexico.
posted
Lol poor Clyde in his desperate confusion and stubbornness he'll never admit he is wrong. Keep spamming Clyde, but you've been refuted, so you should be a man, and admit it.
quote: Clyde says: The y chromosome STRs of the Fuegians include DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 (see: Garcia-Bour et al above). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 they are characteristic of haplogroup A1 . A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup.
No it doesn't Clyde. The STRs mentioned were amplified in the study, and the study revealed Mtdna and Y-STRs of Native American ancestry, you dimwitted fool.
Fuegians do not carry Y-dna haplogroups A nor D.
The same Y-STRs are amplified/analyzed in many studies. They are not characterized by hga1, nor do any of the authors make such conclusions. Just your false understanding of genetics.
An extremely informative Y-STR core set or minimal haplotype (minHt) amplifiable in a multiplex reaction has been recommended for court use : DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS385ab (Kayser et al. 1997), (Pascali et al. 1999). This core haplotype can be extended by other hypervariable Y-STR loci (DYS438, DYS439, DYS437, DYS448, DYS456, DYS458, DYS635, YGATAH4) to further increase the power of discrimination (Ayub et al. 2000), (Redd et al. 2002), (Mulero et al. 2006).
quote: Int J Legal Med. 2005 Sep ;119 (5):303-5 15834734 (P,S,G,E,B) Polish population study on Y chromosome haplotypes defined by 18 STR loci.
Polymorphism of 18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome (DYS19, DYS388 , DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390 , DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS426, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS460, GATA H4.1, DYS385 a/b, and YCAII a/b) was evaluated by means of a multiplex (octadecaplex) PCR reaction and capillary electrophoresis in a Polish population sample of 208 unrelated males. A total of 192 different haplotypes and 183 unique haplotypes were identified. The observed haplotype diversity was 0.998, while discrimination capacity was 92.3%. DYS389 was shown to be the most valuable in discrimination of similar haplotypes, whereas DYS388, DYS393, DYS426, and DYS438 did not affect the discrimination power of the multiplex.
So basically Clyde from your distortion of genetics, the above amplified Polymorphism of ***18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome*** , in this study on a Polish population Y-chromosome, indicates that they carry hgA1?
<<<<<<----- HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Lol poor Clyde in his desperate confusion and stubbornness he'll never admit he is wrong. Keep spamming Clyde, but you've been refuted, so you should be a man, and admit it.
quote: Clyde says: The y chromosome STRs of the Fuegians include DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 (see: Garcia-Bour et al above). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 they are characteristic of haplogroup A1 . A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup.
No it doesn't Clyde. The STRs mentioned were amplified in the study, and the study revealed Mtdna and Y-STRs of Native American ancestry, you dimwitted fool.
Fuegians do not carry Y-dna haplogroups A nor D.
The same Y-STRs are amplified/analyzed in many studies. They are not characterized by hga1, nor do any of the authors make such conclusions. Just your false understanding of genetics.
An extremely informative Y-STR core set or minimal haplotype (minHt) amplifiable in a multiplex reaction has been recommended for court use : DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS385ab (Kayser et al. 1997), (Pascali et al. 1999). This core haplotype can be extended by other hypervariable Y-STR loci (DYS438, DYS439, DYS437, DYS448, DYS456, DYS458, DYS635, YGATAH4) to further increase the power of discrimination (Ayub et al. 2000), (Redd et al. 2002), (Mulero et al. 2006).
quote: Int J Legal Med. 2005 Sep ;119 (5):303-5 15834734 (P,S,G,E,B) Polish population study on Y chromosome haplotypes defined by 18 STR loci.
Polymorphism of 18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome (DYS19, DYS388 , DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390 , DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS426, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS460, GATA H4.1, DYS385 a/b, and YCAII a/b) was evaluated by means of a multiplex (octadecaplex) PCR reaction and capillary electrophoresis in a Polish population sample of 208 unrelated males. A total of 192 different haplotypes and 183 unique haplotypes were identified. The observed haplotype diversity was 0.998, while discrimination capacity was 92.3%. DYS389 was shown to be the most valuable in discrimination of similar haplotypes, whereas DYS388, DYS393, DYS426, and DYS438 did not affect the discrimination power of the multiplex.
So basically Clyde from your distortion of genetics, the above amplified Polymorphism of ***18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome*** , in this study on a Polish population Y-chromosome, indicates that they carry hgA1?
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Lol poor Clyde in his desperate confusion and stubbornness he'll never admit he is wrong. Keep spamming Clyde, but you've been refuted, so you should be a man, and admit it.
quote: Clyde says: The y chromosome STRs of the Fuegians include DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 (see: Garcia-Bour et al above). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 they are characteristic of haplogroup A1 . A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup.
No it doesn't Clyde. The STRs mentioned were amplified in the study, and the study revealed Mtdna and Y-STRs of Native American ancestry, you dimwitted fool.
Fuegians do not carry Y-dna haplogroups A nor D.
The same Y-STRs are amplified/analyzed in many studies. They are not characterized by hga1, nor do any of the authors make such conclusions. Just your false understanding of genetics.
An extremely informative Y-STR core set or minimal haplotype (minHt) amplifiable in a multiplex reaction has been recommended for court use : DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS385ab (Kayser et al. 1997), (Pascali et al. 1999). This core haplotype can be extended by other hypervariable Y-STR loci (DYS438, DYS439, DYS437, DYS448, DYS456, DYS458, DYS635, YGATAH4) to further increase the power of discrimination (Ayub et al. 2000), (Redd et al. 2002), (Mulero et al. 2006).
quote: Int J Legal Med. 2005 Sep ;119 (5):303-5 15834734 (P,S,G,E,B) Polish population study on Y chromosome haplotypes defined by 18 STR loci.
Polymorphism of 18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome (DYS19, DYS388 , DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390 , DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS426, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS460, GATA H4.1, DYS385 a/b, and YCAII a/b) was evaluated by means of a multiplex (octadecaplex) PCR reaction and capillary electrophoresis in a Polish population sample of 208 unrelated males. A total of 192 different haplotypes and 183 unique haplotypes were identified. The observed haplotype diversity was 0.998, while discrimination capacity was 92.3%. DYS389 was shown to be the most valuable in discrimination of similar haplotypes, whereas DYS388, DYS393, DYS426, and DYS438 did not affect the discrimination power of the multiplex.
So basically Clyde from your distortion of genetics, the above amplified Polymorphism of ***18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome*** , in this study on a Polish population Y-chromosome, indicates that they carry hgA1?
You're such a moron. Stop acting like you are brainless and disprove my findings. This garbage has nothing to do with my propositions.
Let's look at the facts:
1) the Australians represent the OOA population that settled Asia
2) during the OOA event much of Siberia and North America was under ice from 110,000 - 10,000BC. As a result there was no way Siberians could cross Beringa before the end of the ice age
3) Ice even separated much of South America east to west .
. 4) the first Americans appear in Brazil, Chile and Argintina Latin America around 30,000 BC
5)using craniometric evidence it is clear that the first Americans look like Africans not modern Asian Native Americans
6) using craniometrics I have pointed out that Asia was dominated by the Australian population until the rise of Suhulland when the Melanesian people appear in the area, at this time the Beringa was still under Ice
7) I pointed out that the Melanesian type reach East Asian mainland by 5000 BC, long after Africans had settled Latin America
8) between 15,000-12,000 we see numerous African populations in Mexico and Brazil; and skeletons dating to this period have even been found off the Yucatan coast in the Caribbean
9) these first Americans did not look like the Australians or modern Amerinds
10) iconography of PreClassic people like the Cherla, Ocos and other groups is of Negroes not Amerinds like the Maya
11) Amerind groups not associated with African slaves carry African genes
12) Maya carried African y chromosome
13) Chontal Mayan speakers were classified as Negroes by Quatrefages. This may explain why the Maya carry African genes
14)Negrocostachicanos claim that they have never been slaves and are indigenous to Guererro and Oaxaca on the Pacific coast
15) The Dufuna boat makes it clear that Africans probably had the technology to travel to the Americas 15,000 years ago.
16) Fuegians 100-400 BP carried haplogroup A1. Hg A1 is an African haplogroup.
17) Amerinds carry haplogroup N, just like Africans.
18)The y chromosome STRs of the Fuegians include DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 (see: Garcia-Bour et al above). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 they are characteristic of haplogroup A1 . A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup.
19)Quatrefages noted numerous African Native American tribes
20)The antiquity of these populations is supported by the ancient iconography found in these countries which are of African Native Americans.
21) Most contemporary populations are descendants of the San people not Australians.
You have not falsified the propositions above point by point. Post the counter evidence instead of making idle claims.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Lol poor Clyde in his desperate confusion and stubbornness he'll never admit he is wrong. Keep spamming Clyde, but you've been refuted, so you should be a man, and admit it.
quote: Clyde says: The y chromosome STRs of the Fuegians include DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 (see: Garcia-Bour et al above). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 they are characteristic of haplogroup A1 . A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup.
No it doesn't Clyde. The STRs mentioned were amplified in the study, and the study revealed Mtdna and Y-STRs of Native American ancestry, you dimwitted fool.
Fuegians do not carry Y-dna haplogroups A nor D.
The same Y-STRs are amplified/analyzed in many studies. They are not characterized by hga1, nor do any of the authors make such conclusions. Just your false understanding of genetics.
An extremely informative Y-STR core set or minimal haplotype (minHt) amplifiable in a multiplex reaction has been recommended for court use : DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS385ab (Kayser et al. 1997), (Pascali et al. 1999). This core haplotype can be extended by other hypervariable Y-STR loci (DYS438, DYS439, DYS437, DYS448, DYS456, DYS458, DYS635, YGATAH4) to further increase the power of discrimination (Ayub et al. 2000), (Redd et al. 2002), (Mulero et al. 2006).
quote: Int J Legal Med. 2005 Sep ;119 (5):303-5 15834734 (P,S,G,E,B) Polish population study on Y chromosome haplotypes defined by 18 STR loci.
Polymorphism of 18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome (DYS19, DYS388 , DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390 , DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS426, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS460, GATA H4.1, DYS385 a/b, and YCAII a/b) was evaluated by means of a multiplex (octadecaplex) PCR reaction and capillary electrophoresis in a Polish population sample of 208 unrelated males. A total of 192 different haplotypes and 183 unique haplotypes were identified. The observed haplotype diversity was 0.998, while discrimination capacity was 92.3%. DYS389 was shown to be the most valuable in discrimination of similar haplotypes, whereas DYS388, DYS393, DYS426, and DYS438 did not affect the discrimination power of the multiplex.
So basically Clyde from your distortion of genetics, the above amplified Polymorphism of ***18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome*** , in this study on a Polish population Y-chromosome, indicates that they carry hgA1?
[rAsol writes:] Most of those STR's are found in all male haplotypes, for the precise reason that all men share a common African ancestry: EXAMPLE: Y-specific STR loci (DYS19, DYS389I/II, DYS390.
[Marc writes:] Saying "all men share a common African ancestry: EXAMPLE: Y-specific STR loci (DYS19, DYS389I/II, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392."
Is the same as saying that all men share the San as the common ancestor as the San was the first man.
[Dr Winters writes:] You are right Marc.
Here is an article that discusses the expansion of the San people.
1) the Australians represent the OOA population that settled Asia
2) during the OOA event much of Siberia and North America was under ice from 110,000 - 10,000BC. As a result there was no way Siberians could cross Beringa before the end of the ice age
3) Ice even separated much of South America east to west .
. 4) the first Americans appear in Brazil, Chile and Argintina Latin America around 30,000 BC
5)using craniometric evidence it is clear that the first Americans look like Africans not modern Asian Native Americans
6) using craniometrics I have pointed out that Asia was dominated by the Australian population until the rise of Suhulland when the Melanesian people appear in the area, at this time the Beringa was still under Ice
7) I pointed out that the Melanesian type reach East Asian mainland by 5000 BC, long after Africans had settled Latin America
8) between 15,000-12,000 we see numerous African populations in Mexico and Brazil; and skeletons dating to this period have even been found off the Yucatan coast in the Caribbean
9) these first Americans did not look like the Australians or modern Amerinds
10) iconography of PreClassic people like the Cherla, Ocos and other groups is of Negroes not Amerinds like the Maya
11) Amerind groups not associated with African slaves carry African genes
12) Maya carried African y chromosome
13) Chontal Mayan speakers were classified as Negroes by Quatrefages. This may explain why the Maya carry African genes
14)Negrocostachicanos claim that they have never been slaves and are indigenous to Guererro and Oaxaca on the Pacific coast
15) The Dufuna boat makes it clear that Africans probably had the technology to travel to the Americas 15,000 years ago.
16) Fuegians 100-400 BP carried haplogroup A1. Hg A1 is an African haplogroup.
17) Amerinds carry haplogroup N, just like Africans.
18)The y chromosome STRs of the Fuegians include DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 (see: Garcia-Bour et al above). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 they are characteristic of haplogroup A1 . A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup.
19)Quatrefages noted numerous African Native American tribes
20)The antiquity of these populations is supported by the ancient iconography found in these countries which are of African Native Americans.
21) Most contemporary populations are descendants of the San people not Australians.
Here is my response. You have not falsified the propositions above point by point. Post the counter evidence instead of making idle claims.
quote:Originally posted by rasol: ^ Meanwhile..... no answers.
Why is that, Dr. Clyde?
quote:Originally posted by rasol: ^ Dr. Winters, Marc's tantrums don't get you off the hook......
posted
So Clyde, you're telling me that you don't need to address your idiotic DNA claims?
quote: Clyde says: The y chromosome STRs of the Fuegians include DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 (see: Garcia-Bour et al above). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 they are characteristic of haplogroup A1 . A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup.
No they aren't Clyde. The STRs mentioned were amplified in the study, and the study revealed Mtdna and Y-STRs of Native American ancestry, you dimwitted fool.
Fuegians do not carry Y-dna haplogroups A nor D.
The same Y-STRs are amplified/analyzed in many studies. They are not characterized by hga1, nor do any of the authors make such conclusions. Just your false understanding of genetics.
An extremely informative Y-STR core set or minimal haplotype (minHt) amplifiable in a multiplex reaction has been recommended for court use : DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS385ab (Kayser et al. 1997), (Pascali et al. 1999). This core haplotype can be extended by other hypervariable Y-STR loci (DYS438, DYS439, DYS437, DYS448, DYS456, DYS458, DYS635, YGATAH4) to further increase the power of discrimination (Ayub et al. 2000), (Redd et al. 2002), (Mulero et al. 2006).
quote: Int J Legal Med. 2005 Sep ;119 (5):303-5 15834734 (P,S,G,E,B) Polish population study on Y chromosome haplotypes defined by 18 STR loci.
Polymorphism of 18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome (DYS19, DYS388 , DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390 , DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS426, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS460, GATA H4.1, DYS385 a/b, and YCAII a/b) was evaluated by means of a multiplex (octadecaplex) PCR reaction and capillary electrophoresis in a Polish population sample of 208 unrelated males. A total of 192 different haplotypes and 183 unique haplotypes were identified. The observed haplotype diversity was 0.998, while discrimination capacity was 92.3%. DYS389 was shown to be the most valuable in discrimination of similar haplotypes, whereas DYS388, DYS393, DYS426, and DYS438 did not affect the discrimination power of the multiplex.
So basically Clyde from your distortion of genetics, the above amplified Polymorphism of ***18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome*** , in this study on a Polish population Y-chromosome, indicates that they carry hgA1?
Also you can address your claim that Native Americans carry A2 and B2 because of Khoisan and Pygmies?
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quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: So Clyde, you're telling me that you don't need to address your idiotic DNA claims?
quote: Clyde says: The y chromosome STRs of the Fuegians include DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 (see: Garcia-Bour et al above). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 they are characteristic of haplogroup A1 . A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup.
No they aren't Clyde. The STRs mentioned were amplified in the study, and the study revealed Mtdna and Y-STRs of Native American ancestry, you dimwitted fool.
Fuegians do not carry Y-dna haplogroups A nor D.
The same Y-STRs are amplified/analyzed in many studies. They are not characterized by hga1, nor do any of the authors make such conclusions. Just your false understanding of genetics.
An extremely informative Y-STR core set or minimal haplotype (minHt) amplifiable in a multiplex reaction has been recommended for court use : DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS385ab (Kayser et al. 1997), (Pascali et al. 1999). This core haplotype can be extended by other hypervariable Y-STR loci (DYS438, DYS439, DYS437, DYS448, DYS456, DYS458, DYS635, YGATAH4) to further increase the power of discrimination (Ayub et al. 2000), (Redd et al. 2002), (Mulero et al. 2006).
quote: Int J Legal Med. 2005 Sep ;119 (5):303-5 15834734 (P,S,G,E,B) Polish population study on Y chromosome haplotypes defined by 18 STR loci.
Polymorphism of 18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome (DYS19, DYS388 , DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390 , DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS426, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS460, GATA H4.1, DYS385 a/b, and YCAII a/b) was evaluated by means of a multiplex (octadecaplex) PCR reaction and capillary electrophoresis in a Polish population sample of 208 unrelated males. A total of 192 different haplotypes and 183 unique haplotypes were identified. The observed haplotype diversity was 0.998, while discrimination capacity was 92.3%. DYS389 was shown to be the most valuable in discrimination of similar haplotypes, whereas DYS388, DYS393, DYS426, and DYS438 did not affect the discrimination power of the multiplex.
So basically Clyde from your distortion of genetics, the above amplified Polymorphism of ***18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome*** , in this study on a Polish population Y-chromosome, indicates that they carry hgA1?
Also you can address your claim that Native Americans carry A2 and B2 because of Khoisan and Pygmies?
That's right I did not bite my tongue the Amerinds carry genes they recieved from the Pygmies and San who originally settled this the Americas and even Bantu and Mande people who came here later. As noted by Marc all homosapien sapiens cary these STR's because they come from the original Black man. But differences for each group is made by the addition of other STRs.
You continue to post this material as if it is a victory. I made over 21 propositions and supported them with evidence you have not disconfirmed any of them. You are the fake and liar. Start using your brain and prove my 21 propositions wrong or shut up moron.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: So Clyde, you're telling me that you don't need to address your idiotic DNA claims?
quote: Clyde says: The y chromosome STRs of the Fuegians include DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 (see: Garcia-Bour et al above). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 they are characteristic of haplogroup A1 . A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup.
No they aren't Clyde. The STRs mentioned were amplified in the study, and the study revealed Mtdna and Y-STRs of Native American ancestry, you dimwitted fool.
Fuegians do not carry Y-dna haplogroups A nor D.
The same Y-STRs are amplified/analyzed in many studies. They are not characterized by hga1, nor do any of the authors make such conclusions. Just your false understanding of genetics.
An extremely informative Y-STR core set or minimal haplotype (minHt) amplifiable in a multiplex reaction has been recommended for court use : DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS385ab (Kayser et al. 1997), (Pascali et al. 1999). This core haplotype can be extended by other hypervariable Y-STR loci (DYS438, DYS439, DYS437, DYS448, DYS456, DYS458, DYS635, YGATAH4) to further increase the power of discrimination (Ayub et al. 2000), (Redd et al. 2002), (Mulero et al. 2006).
quote: Int J Legal Med. 2005 Sep ;119 (5):303-5 15834734 (P,S,G,E,B) Polish population study on Y chromosome haplotypes defined by 18 STR loci.
Polymorphism of 18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome (DYS19, DYS388 , DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390 , DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS426, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS460, GATA H4.1, DYS385 a/b, and YCAII a/b) was evaluated by means of a multiplex (octadecaplex) PCR reaction and capillary electrophoresis in a Polish population sample of 208 unrelated males. A total of 192 different haplotypes and 183 unique haplotypes were identified. The observed haplotype diversity was 0.998, while discrimination capacity was 92.3%. DYS389 was shown to be the most valuable in discrimination of similar haplotypes, whereas DYS388, DYS393, DYS426, and DYS438 did not affect the discrimination power of the multiplex.
So basically Clyde from your distortion of genetics, the above amplified Polymorphism of ***18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome*** , in this study on a Polish population Y-chromosome, indicates that they carry hgA1?
Also you can address your claim that Native Americans carry A2 and B2 because of Khoisan and Pygmies?
That's right I did not bite my tongue the Amerinds carry genes they recieved from the Pygmies and San who originally settled this the Americas and even Bantu and Mande people who came here later. As noted by Marc all homosapien sapiens cary these STR's because they come from the original Black man. But differences for each group is made by the addition of other STRs.
You continue to post this material as if it is a victory. I made over 21 propositions and supported them with evidence you have not disconfirmed any of them. You are the fake and liar. Start using your brain and prove my 21 propositions wrong or shut up moron.
quote: 1) the Australians represent the OOA population that settled Asia
Oceanics are representative of OOA populations.
Academics analysed the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y chromosome DNA of Aboriginal Australians and Melanesians from New Guinea. This data was compared with the various DNA patterns associated with early humans. The research was an international effort, with researchers from Tartu in Estonia, Oxford, and Stanford in California all contributing key data and expertise.
The results showed that both the Aborigines and Melanesians share the genetic features that have been linked to the exodus of modern humans from Africa 50,000 years ago.
quote: 2) during the OOA event much of Siberia and North America was under ice from 110,000 - 10,000BC. As a result there was no way Siberians could cross Beringa before the end of the ice age
3) Ice even separated much of South America east to west
Well, as we can see from the following DNA puts Native Americans in America before 10k B.C.E, so this is mooted.
DNA from Pre-Clovis Human Coprolites in Oregon, North America
M. Thomas P. Gilbert,1* Dennis L. Jenkins,2* Anders Götherstrom,3 Nuria Naveran,4 Juan J. Sanchez,5 Michael Hofreiter,6 Philip Francis Thomsen,1 Jonas Binladen,1 Thomas F. G. Higham,7 Robert M. Yohe, II,8 Robert Parr,8 Linda Scott Cummings,9 Eske Willerslev1{dagger}
The timing of the first human migration into the Americas and its relation to the appearance of the Clovis technological complex in North America at about 11,000 to 10,800 radiocarbon years before the present (14C years B.P.) remains contentious. We establish that humans were present at Paisley 5 Mile Point Caves, in south-central Oregon, by 12,300 14C years B.P., through the recovery of human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from coprolites, directly dated by accelerator mass spectrometry. The mtDNA corresponds to Native American founding haplogroups A2 and B2. The dates of the coprolites are >1000 14C years earlier than currently accepted dates for the Clovis complex.
and...
A team led by two Texas A&M University anthropologists now believes the first Americans came to this country 1,000 to 2,000 years earlier than the 13,500 years ago previously thought, which could shift historic timelines.
The team's findings are outlined in a review article in the journal Science entitled "The Late Pleistocene Dispersal of Modern Humans in the Americas," which synthesizes new data suggesting the migration from Alaska started about 15,000 years ago.
This theory is supported by not only archaeological evidence, but also from genetic evidence from living and ancient populations, says Ted Goebel, an anthropology professor at Texas A&M.
and......
A Three-Stage Colonization Model for the Peopling of the Americas
Andrew Kitchen1, Michael M. Miyamoto2, Connie J. Mulligan1*
Background
We evaluate the process by which the Americas were originally colonized and propose a three-stage model that integrates current genetic, archaeological, geological, and paleoecological data. Specifically, we analyze mitochondrial and nuclear genetic data by using complementary coalescent models of demographic history and incorporating non-genetic data to enhance the anthropological relevance of the analysis. Methodology/Findings
Bayesian skyline plots, which provide dynamic representations of population size changes over time, indicate that Amerinds went through two stages of growth ≈40,000 and ≈15,000 years ago separated by a long period of population stability. Isolation-with-migration coalescent analyses, which utilize data from sister populations to estimate a divergence date and founder population sizes, suggest an Amerind population expansion starting ≈15,000 years ago. Conclusions/Significance
These results support a model for the peopling of the New World in which Amerind ancestors diverged from the Asian gene pool prior to 40,000 years ago and experienced a gradual population expansion as they moved into Beringia. After a long period of little change in population size in greater Beringia, Amerinds rapidly expanded into the Americas ≈15,000 years ago either through an interior ice-free corridor or along the coast. This rapid colonization of the New World was achieved by a founder group with an effective population size of ≈1,000–5,400 individuals. Our model presents a detailed scenario for the timing and scale of the initial migration to the Americas, substantially refines the estimate of New World founders, and provides a unified theory for testing with future datasets and analytic methods.
quote: 4) the first Americans appear in Brazil, Chile and Argintina Latin America around 30,000 BC
Ok, do you have the anthropological assessment on craniometrics??
quote: 5)using craniometric evidence it is clear that the first Americans look like Africans not modern Asian Native Americans
Nope it's clear that they resemble Australo-Melanesians and Africans.
quote:The oldest Americans' Negroid traits are not very specialized, making a direct immigration from Africa or Australia unlikely. Therefore, **Neves**(the head proponent for Australia/African like populations reaching America) believes that the America's more than 12,000 years ago did not necessarily occur by sea: "The traditional path across the Bering Strait is still the most plausible explanation for the entry of this non-Mongoloid population into the New World, if we assume that it was present in Northern Asia at the end of the Pleistocene." And indeed, Japan's aborigines, of whom a few still live in Hokkaido and on the Kurile Islands, display some Australian traits, such as round eye sockets and abundant body hair. A genetic comparison might solve the mystery...
''We know that today's Amerindians have ***four main groups***,'' said Dr. Pena, who found a genetic marker common to 17 different widely dispersed Indian groups across the Americans in the course of an earlier project. ''What would constitute molecular proof of ***Walter's (NEVES)*** hypothesis is to find ***DNA sequences COMPLETELY **different** from those ***four groups***.''
Dr. Meltzer said: ''This is clearly the way to resolve the issue. The skull is intriguing morphological evidence, but in order to really nail down this issue of affinity, you need evidence, and ***DNA*** is the way to go.''
quote: From Mikes own source: Lahr (1995) has reached a conclusion similar to ours when studying the cranial morphology of modern Fuegians. She realized that the morphology of modern Indians of Tierra del Fuego could not be described as typical Mongoloid as well. Since she detected a close association between historic ****Fuegians and Polynesians**** she opted to interpret the cranial morphology of the former as generalized Mongoloid, at best. In her opinion this generalized Mongoloid morphology could be explained as a retention of characteristics of the first inhabitants of the Americas.
quote: Froms Mikes own source: As to the similarities with Africans, the best way to explain it in terms of historical connections, is to assume that the Asian ancestral population that gave rise to the Australians and to the first Americans had its ultimate origins in the African continent, as it is in fact the case with all modern humans (Stringer and Andrews, 1988; Stringer and McKie, 1996; Lahr, 1994, 1996), ***but which retained a very generalized morphology.***In accordance with Lahr (1996), the Australians are in fact the contemporary aboriginal population that retained the most primitive morphology when compared to the first modern humans. As she stressed "Groups like [...] Australo-Melanesians are all examples of relatively early diversifications without great amounts of gene flow from other groups..." (Lahr, 1996, p.335).
quote:6) using craniometrics I have pointed out that Asia was dominated by the Australian population until the rise of Suhulland when the Melanesian people appear in the area, at this time the Beringa was still under Ice
Well....
Australians are in fact the contemporary aboriginal population that retained the most primitive morphology when compared to the first modern humans. As she stressed "Groups like [...] Australo-Melanesians are all examples of relatively early diversifications without great amounts of gene flow from other groups..." (Lahr, 1996, p.335).
As noted by geneticists from from Tartu in Estonia, Oxford, and Stanford in California all contributing key data and expertise. The results showed that both the Aborigines and Melanesians share the genetic features that have been linked to the exodus of modern humans from Africa 50,000 years ago.
quote:7) I pointed out that the Melanesian type reach East Asian mainland by 5000 BC, long after Africans had settled Latin America
Well according to Neves. "The traditional path across the Bering Strait is still the most plausible explanation for the entry of this non-Mongoloid population into the New World, if we assume that it was present in Northern Asia at the end of the Pleistocene." And indeed, Japan's aborigines, of whom a few still live in Hokkaido and on the Kurile Islands, display some Australian traits, such as round eye sockets and abundant body hair.
8) between 15,000-12,000 we see numerous African populations in Mexico and Brazil; and skeletons dating to this period have even been found off the Yucatan coast in the Caribbean
quote:
Nope tey've been found to resemble Australo-Melanesians as we can see....
quote: 9) these first Americans did not look like the Australians or modern Amerinds
Of course they resembled Australo-Melanesian populations, as shown from physical anthropology
74 human skulls dated between 11.0 and 3.0 kyr, recovered in seven different sites of Sabana de Bogotá, Colombia, were compared with the world cranial variation by different multivariate techniques: Principal Components Analysis, Multidimensional Scaling, and Cluster of Mahalanobis distance matrices.
quote: 10) iconography of PreClassic people like the Cherla, Ocos and other groups is of Negroes not Amerinds like the Maya
I am pretty sure you've said the Mayans were Africans as well, but anyway, this is pure speculation, eyeball anthropology, doesn't cut it.
quote:11) Amerind groups not associated with African slaves carry African genes
Anyone can say anything, Muslims believe they can trace their ancestry back to Muhammad. Some Native Americans believe they were always in the Americas and never made any migrations.
But let's take a look at real African Native Americans and what they have to say......
Many people believe racial and ethnic groups in North America have always lived as separately as they do now. However, segregation was neither practical nor preferable when people who were not native to this continent began arriving here. Europeans needed Indians as guides, trade partners and military allies. They needed Africans to tend their crops and to build an infrastructure.
Later, as the new American government began to thrive, laws were drafted to protect the land and property the colonists had acquired. These laws strengthened the powers of slave owners, limited the rights of free Africans and barred most Indian rights altogether. Today, black, white and red Americans still feel the aftershock of those laws.
In order to enforce the new laws, Indians and Africans had to be distinguished from Europeans. Government census takers began visiting Indian communities east of the Mississippi River in the late 1700s and continued their task of identifying, categorizing, and counting individuals and "tribes" well into the 20th century. In the earlier days of this process, Native American communities that were found to be harboring escaped African slaves were threatened with loss of their tribal status, thereby nullifying their treaties with the U.S. government and relinquishing all claims to their land.
Despite the restrictions imposed by the U.S. government, Indians and Africans still managed to form close bonds. Some Native American communities ignored the laws and continued to aid fleeing African slaves. Some free Africans aided displaced Indians. Sometimes the two groups came together in "prayer towns" -- European communities that welcomed and protected converts to Christianity, regardless of race. Sometimes, Indian women married African men when the number of men in their own communities was decimated by war or natural disaster. Some Native Americans listed themselves as "Negro" or "mixed" in order to retain ownership of their land.
DID YOU KNOW ??? At the time of Columbus, the subcontinent of India was referred to as Hindustan or the Deccan. The European term for indigenous peoples all over the world was "Indians" from the Spanish "In Dios" meaning "God's people".
Some Native Americans refused to sign the census rolls during the 18th and 19th centuries, some refused to register with the Bureau of Indian Affairs or to allow themselves to be "removed" to "Indian Territory" in Oklahoma during the 1800s. As a result, many of their descendants grew up in urban environments instead of on reservations. This isn't the image of Native American experience most people carry in their heads but, in this part of the country, it is quite prevalent.
There are no villages tucked away in Suffolk county -- or anywhere else, for that matter -- where people live in teepees, hunt with bows and arrows and cook over open fires. Our lives reflect the same diversity as any other cultural group in America. We are wealthy, middle class and impoverished. We are educated and ignorant. We are employed and unemployed. We are Americans.
What sets American Indian cultures apart from many others is our attitude toward life. Simply stated, we believe we were not born ON this Earth, we were born OF this Earth. In other words, the Earth is our mother and we would no sooner mistreat her than you would the woman who raised you. This is the primary ingredient in the cultural glue that holds us all together.
Hollywood has taught us to associate the facial features you see here with red skin and sweeping Southwestern vistas, yet these people have skin tones that range from coffee to cream and most live in the New York metropolitan area. They are of African descent but they are also Blackfoot, Canarsie, Caribe, Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, Lenape, Matinecock, Mohawk, Munsee, Ramapo, Shinnecock, Seminole, Unkechaug, Taino. They have spiritual names in addition to the names that appear on their birth certificates; they dance at powwows wearing full regalia; they have naming ceremonies for their children. Some of them speak indigenous languages, some fast on the full moon in accordance with ancient religious beliefs, and all are extremely proud of their mixed heritage. They embody the intertwining of two of America's most stalwart and dynamic ethnic communities.
DID YOU KNOW ??? The first slaves in the "New World" were Indians. However, colonists found them difficult to contain -- they knew the surrounding countryside and those who had not been captured often organized successful rescue efforts. For a time, slave merchants continued to raid Native American communities along the central and southern shores of the Eastern Seaboard and to encourage local warriors to barter captives they would otherwise kill for European trade goods. The women and children the merchants acquired were sold alongside Africans to buyers in the north while the men were shipped to plantations in the Caribbean.
quote:12) Maya carried African y chromosome
No they don't!
quote: 13) Chontal Mayan speakers were classified as Negroes by Quatrefages. This may explain why the Maya carry African genes
More speculation.
quote: 14)Negrocostachicanos claim that they have never been slaves and are indigenous to Guererro and Oaxaca on the Pacific coast
More CLAIMS!!! No PROOF!!
quote: 15) The Dufuna boat makes it clear that Africans probably had the technology to travel to the Americas 15,000 years ago.
Clyde, this boat was dated to 8,000 B.C.E. in Nigeria what does this have to do with the San and 15,000 B.C.E?
8000 B.C. Nigeria. "Africa's oldest known boat" the Dufuna Canoe was discovered near the region of the River Yobe in Nigeria. The Canoe was discovered by a Fulani herdsman in May 1987, in Dufuna Village while digging a well. The canoe’s “almost black wood”, said to be African mahogany, as “entirely an organic material”. Various Radio-Carbon tests conducted in laboratories of reputable Universities in Europe and America indicate that the Canoe is over 8000 years old, thus making it the oldest in Africa and 3rd oldest in the World. Little is known of the period to which the boat belongs, in archaeological terms it is described as an early phase of the Later Stone Age, which began rather more than 12,000 years ago and ended with the appearance of pottery. The lab results redefined the pre-history of African water transport, ranking the Dufuna canoe as the world’s third oldest known dugout. Older than it are the dugouts from Pesse, Netherlands, and Noyen-sur-Seine, France. But evidence of an 8000-year-old tradition of boat building in Africa throws cold water on the assumption that maritime transport developed much later there in comparison with Europe.
quote: 16) Fuegians 100-400 BP carried haplogroup A1. Hg A1 is an African haplogroup.
No, ancient nor modern Fuegian carry Y-chromosome A1, sorry Clyde, Native Americans do carry Mtdna haplogroup A though.
quote:17) Amerinds carry haplogroup N, just like Africans.
Where?
quote: 18)The y chromosome STRs of the Fuegians include DYS434,DYS437,DYS 439, DYS 393, DYS391,DYS390,DYS19, DYS 389I, DYS389II and DYS 388 (see: Garcia-Bour et al above). Except for DYS390 and DYS388 they are characteristic of haplogroup A1 . A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup.
The same Y-STRs are amplified/analyzed in many studies. They are not characterized by hga1, nor do any of the authors make such conclusions. Just your false understanding of genetics.
An extremely informative Y-STR core set or minimal haplotype (minHt) amplifiable in a multiplex reaction has been recommended for court use : DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS385ab (Kayser et al. 1997), (Pascali et al. 1999). This core haplotype can be extended by other hypervariable Y-STR loci (DYS438, DYS439, DYS437, DYS448, DYS456, DYS458, DYS635, YGATAH4) to further increase the power of discrimination (Ayub et al. 2000), (Redd et al. 2002), (Mulero et al. 2006).
quote: Int J Legal Med. 2005 Sep ;119 (5):303-5 15834734 (P,S,G,E,B) Polish population study on Y chromosome haplotypes defined by 18 STR loci.
Polymorphism of 18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome (DYS19, DYS388 , DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390 , DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS426, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS460, GATA H4.1, DYS385 a/b, and YCAII a/b) was evaluated by means of a multiplex (octadecaplex) PCR reaction and capillary electrophoresis in a Polish population sample of 208 unrelated males. A total of 192 different haplotypes and 183 unique haplotypes were identified. The observed haplotype diversity was 0.998, while discrimination capacity was 92.3%. DYS389 was shown to be the most valuable in discrimination of similar haplotypes, whereas DYS388, DYS393, DYS426, and DYS438 did not affect the discrimination power of the multiplex.
So basically Clyde from your distortion of genetics, the above amplified Polymorphism of ***18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome*** , in this study on a Polish population Y-chromosome, indicates that they carry hgA1?
quote: 19)Quatrefages noted numerous African Native American tribes
More claims....!!!
quote:20)The antiquity of these populations is supported by the ancient iconography found in these countries which are of African Native Americans.
But simply not supported by archaeology, genetics nor anthropology, sorry.
quote: 21) Most contemporary populations are descendants of the San people not Australians.
Native Americans do not carry Y haplogroup A Clyde, the A they carry is an Mtdna marker.
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posted
The phenotype that is called "Black" by most people is found in all tropical zones of the World. Why - Adaptation.
What is the issue with this constant bickering about who is Black. Aren't you all really interested in what people in your own lineage did?
If your West African why not study the migration of E3a from East Africa through the Sahara and then expanding in West Africa back across most of the continent. This is exciting stuff.
Until someone finds E3a or even E3b1 in Olmecs why not shutup about it. They probably were Negritoes or Aboriginal Australians who have less in common with African American people than the Irish.
It is remotely possible that West Africans made it across the Atlantic but right now the evidence supports beach combing from East African around the World and across the Pacific by a pygmy Negrito people that are closer related to Asians than to Africans.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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So far evidence supports the first Americans being Melanesian people.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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So far evidence supports the first Americans being Melanesian people.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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So far evidence supports the first Americans being Melanesian people.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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So far evidence supports the first Americans being Melanesian people.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Posted by Clyde Fraud: That's right I did not bite my tongue the Amerinds carry genes they recieved from the Pygmies and San who originally settled this the Americas
Nope, you didn't bite your tongue, but you did cut it off. The A2 and B2 carried by Native Americans is an Mtdna marker, and not a Y-chromosome as you think.
quote: Posted by Clyde Fraud: and even Bantu and Mande people who came here later.
Where are these lineages?
quote: Posted by Clyde Fraud: As noted by Marc all homosapien sapiens cary these STR's because they come from the original Black man. But differences for each group is made by the addition of other STRs.
Lmao, Marc didn't note that, he was repeating rasol. Marc is an idiot, who can't think for himself.
quote: Int J Legal Med. 2005 Sep ;119 (5):303-5 15834734 (P,S,G,E,B) Polish population study on Y chromosome haplotypes defined by 18 STR loci.
Polymorphism of 18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome (DYS19, DYS388 , DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390 , DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS426, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS460, GATA H4.1, DYS385 a/b, and YCAII a/b) was evaluated by means of a multiplex (octadecaplex) PCR reaction and capillary electrophoresis in a Polish population sample of 208 unrelated males. A total of 192 different haplotypes and 183 unique haplotypes were identified. The observed haplotype diversity was 0.998, while discrimination capacity was 92.3%. DYS389 was shown to be the most valuable in discrimination of similar haplotypes, whereas DYS388, DYS393, DYS426, and DYS438 did not affect the discrimination power of the multiplex.
So basically Clyde from your distortion of genetics, the above amplified Polymorphism of ***18 STR loci specific to the human Y chromosome*** , in this study on a Polish population Y-chromosome, indicates that they carry hgA1?
quote:Posted by Clyde Fraud
You continue to post this material as if it is a victory. I made over 21 propositions and supported them with evidence you have not disconfirmed any of them. You are the fake and liar. Start using your brain and prove my 21 propositions wrong or shut up moron.
I addressed every single one of your questions above, you've been debunked.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
I am no longer going to address your post until you cite disconfirming evidence of my propositions. All you are posting is your own opinions.
Now let's discuss Haplogroup X
Amerindians carry the X hg. Amerindians and Europeans hg X are different (Person, 2004). Haplogroup X has also been found throughout Africa (Shimada et al,2006). Shimada et al (2006) believes that X(hX) is of African origin. Amerindian X is different from European hg X, skeletons from Brazil dating between 400-7000 BP have the transition np 16223 ( Martinez-Cruzado, 2001; Ribeiro-Dos-Santos,1996). Transition np 16223 is characteristic of African haplogroups. This suggest that Africans may have taken the X hg to the Americas in ancient times.
References:
Martinez-Cruzado, J C, Toro-Labrador, G, Ho-Fung, V, Estevez-Montero, M A, Et al (2001). Mitochondrial DNA analysis reveals substanial Native American ancestry in Puerto Rico,Human Biology, Aug 2001
Makoto K. Shimada*, , Karuna Panchapakesan , Sarah A. Tishkoff , Alejandro Q. Nato, Jr* and Jody HeY, Divergent Haplotypes and Human History as Revealed in a Worldwide Survey of X-Linked DNA Sequence Variation, Molecular Biology and Evolution 2007 24(3):687-698
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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