posted
The issue is not black people discussing Egyptian history, the problems is the Internet trolls. And some media, like Netflix Cleopatra who puts out their own version of Egyptian history. Usually it does not seem like Egyptians bother too much about research or scientific papers published about Ancient Egypt. They seem to bother more about pop culture than about research. And in the Museum case it was the connection to American black pop culture that they obviously did not like. The research the museum conducted earlier has obviously not bothered them since the 1970s.
And if it is silly that Egypt care about American pop culture using Egyptian culture, then one can also think it is silly when some African Americans claim that having dreadlocks is cultural appropriation.
But as pointed out before they seem not overly enthusiastic of having Israeli actors playing ancient Egyptian people either, so it is not only about Black people. On top of that they are not fond of Hollywood or others portraying biblical figures. Several such films have been banned in Egypt.
But as I asked, what is ancient Egypt to you? Do you have any personal connection to Egypt? Have you relatives there? Have you at all been there? Why do so many Black Americans bother about a foreign country they have no ties to, and in most cases not even visited?
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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Doug says the proper definition of black is the ancient definition of black which is simple : "a dark skinned person" Thus all the people above are black /case closed
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Well, then very many people are Black, so are many Greeks today, or Roma people, Middle Easterners and of course Indians, Pakistanis, Thai people, Indonesians, some Native Americans, most Pacific islanders. Such loose definitions become rather meaningless. Then one could lump together Europeans (at least North Europeans, Central Europeans and East Europeans) with East Asians like Chinese, Koreans and Japanese and call them all white.
And why hold on to the old designation Black, is not Brown more descriptive? But it is of course up to every people to call themselves what they want.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Well, then very many people are Black, so are many Greeks today, or Roma people, Middle Easterners and of course Indians, Pakistanis, Thai people, Indonesians, some Native Americans, most Pacific islanders. Such loose definitions become rather meaningless. Then one could lump together Europeans (at least North Europeans, Central Europeans and East Europeans) with East Asians like Chinese, Koreans and Japanese and call them all white.
And why hold on to the old designation Black, is not Brown more descriptive? But it is of course up to every people to call themselves what they want.
yes any of the brown skinned people you mention Doug would classify as black. He prefers the term black because in ancient text there often are not words for brown
So for the moment, as to not get caught up in semantics over terms when discussing other issues with Doug, just assume when he says black he means "a dark skinned person" That doesn't mean you have to use the term at all, just understand that's what he means and to avoid confusion if he says "black" about something, in your reply just switch to "dark skinned people" in case other people viewing are thinking he is implying facial features to that when he's not. He had a thread called "Asian Blacks..." a now deleted multi page thread
^ this was one of the photos Doug had posted there, certain Koreans he regards as black people
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Sexier but less descriptive if one shall be literal.
well, Europeans are the largest majority and running America and Europe so they would have to take the lead dismantling "white" first, I suppose
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EGYPTOLOGIST, DR. GALIT BEN TOVEL DISCUSSES DNA LINKS TO MUMMIES OF PHARAOH'S Emily Frances "Holy Land Uncovered" Interview with Egyptologist, Dr. Galit Ben Tovel, author of "Messiah Code." Galit talks about the differences between ancient Egyptians from Upper Egypt vs Lower Egypt. She also talks about Pharaoh Ramses III, of the 20th Dynasty and is considered the "Last Great Pharaoh." Because of Mummies and DNA, people like Dexter Caffey are discovering genetic links to these ancient rulers.
her website and book: https://www.oneness.site/about/ "Her training as a linguist helps her to decipher a cryptic code in the Book of Exodus, through which she sheds a new light on the Exodus and leads the reader through an exciting interpretation of the Biblical story and the identity of God."
Education
Georgetown University Executive Certificate Organizational Leadership 2001 - 2003
Activities and Societies: Member of WWANA, Worldwide Association of Notable Alumni www.thewana.com, Georgetown University
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem Doctor of Philosophy - PhD Egyptology Cum Laude 1994 - 1998 _____________________
^ although I don't see her name on any articles unless she had a different name Seems a little fishy but I'm not sure It's possible she got a PhD (or almost) but then decided to pursue a different career
In her late 40s, Galit Avia Ben-Tovel has embarked on a personal and exciting journey that connects her personal experience with the Biblical Exodus in a unique and remarkable way.
Through her explorative personal journey, she has finally fulfilled her childhood dream, that is, to unravel the mystery of the story of Exodus.
Galit’s personal story, which is brought to you as an authentic dialogue with her lover, is inlayed with numerous exciting and extraordinary findings that she had unveiled throughout her journey. Her personal liberation brought to light clear answers to some of the questions that were bothering her, such as “What happened to Moses?”, “Where is Mount Sinai?”, and “Where is the Arc of the Covenant?” Her training as a linguist helps her to decipher a cryptic code in the Book of Exodus, through which she sheds a new light on the Exodus and leads the reader through an exciting interpretation of the Biblical story and the identity of God.
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: The issue is not black people discussing Egyptian history, the problems is the Internet trolls. And some media, like Netflix Cleopatra who puts out their own version of Egyptian history. Usually it does not seem like Egyptians bother too much about research or scientific papers published about Ancient Egypt. They seem to bother more about pop culture than about research. And in the Museum case it was the connection to American black pop culture that they obviously did not like. The research the museum conducted earlier has obviously not bothered them since the 1970s.
And if it is silly that Egypt care about American pop culture using Egyptian culture, then one can also think it is silly when some African Americans claim that having dreadlocks is cultural appropriation.
But as pointed out before they seem not overly enthusiastic of having Israeli actors playing ancient Egyptian people either, so it is not only about Black people. On top of that they are not fond of Hollywood or others portraying biblical figures. Several such films have been banned in Egypt.
But as I asked, what is ancient Egypt to you? Do you have any personal connection to Egypt? Have you relatives there? Have you at all been there? Why do so many Black Americans bother about a foreign country they have no ties to, and in most cases not even visited?
Why are you asking me what ancient anything is to me? That is my point. You jump from Cleopatra to sitting here acting people have to explain to anybody why they are interested in what they are interested in. Like I said, discussing Cleopatra is one thing but going beyond that to tell people what they should or shouldn't be interested in is another and you just did it right there. That goes beyond simple discussing a "controversy" over a TV show and into territory of whining about facts of history you don't like. And that is precisely what I am talking about. This "controversy" is basically some people online whining and trolling black people about them studying history and exposing lies told by Egyptology. This has always been the issue and goes back long before this Cleopatra documentary.
And you often act like the issues with these historical debates is an issue of online trolling not facts. When someone presents you the facts, you skip right past that and keep going back to online trolling and ignoring anything else.
I asked you earlier what you thought of Nora saying that Kemet means "Land of the Black Soil" since you posted a link to it and yet no response.
You posted examples of these people objecting to black entertainers using cultural elements in the Nile Valley, but avoid making a conclusion on whether it is justified or simply harassment. You do this all the time and act like somehow this behavior is justified as if "black people" are simply doing something to deserve this. Or that their views on history and culture should not be respected in all cases. That is the part I am calling out. The fact that the controversy exists is one thing, but going beyond that to justify stereotyping all black people in one bucket is a problem, not to mention defending such anti-black propaganda.
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Doug says the proper definition of black is the ancient definition of black which is simple : "a dark skinned person" Thus all the people above are black /case closed
Stop trying to speak for me.......
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Why are you asking me what ancient anything is to me? That is my point. You jump from Cleopatra to sitting here acting people have to explain to anybody why they are interested in what they are interested in. Like I said, discussing Cleopatra is one thing but going beyond that to tell people what they should or shouldn't be interested in is another and you just did it right there. That goes beyond simple discussing a "controversy" over a TV show and into territory of whining about facts of history you don't like. And that is precisely what I am talking about. This "controversy" is basically some people online whining and trolling black people about them studying history and exposing lies told by Egyptology. This has always been the issue and goes back long before this Cleopatra documentary.
And you often act like the issues with these historical debates is an issue of online trolling not facts. When someone presents you the facts, you skip right past that and keep going back to online trolling and ignoring anything else.
I asked you earlier what you thought of Nora saying that Kemet means "Land of the Black Soil" since you posted a link to it and yet no response.
You posted examples of these people objecting to black entertainers using cultural elements in the Nile Valley, but avoid making a conclusion on whether it is justified or simply harassment. You do this all the time and act like somehow this behavior is justified as if "black people" are simply doing something to deserve this. Or that their views on history and culture should not be respected in all cases. That is the part I am calling out. The fact that the controversy exists is one thing, but going beyond that to justify stereotyping all black people in one bucket is a problem, not to mention defending such anti-black propaganda.
If someone is whining it is you. Let the Egyptians have their culture in peace, it is not up to you or any other American or westerner what Egyptians think or say about their own culture or history.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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posted
No wonder some Egyptians get irritated when they hear people like this man. And this man, Dr Umar is rather well known and probably has a certain influence, even if some people think some of his opinions are too extreme.
Doug says the proper definition of black is the ancient definition of black which is simple : "a dark skinned person" Thus all the people above are black /case closed
Exactly, The proper definition is the original use of Black. Dark skin means evilskin, why call people dark skin thats evil. Black means what Black Means Black Skin individual.
Edit: If you want another term for Black skin, You should call Black skin rich skin.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Here where I live Black was the color of death and evil, like "the Black Death" (the plague), "Black like a Devil", "the Black one" (death), and so on. So the meaning of colors can be different depending on culture.
"The Black Death", old Norwegian picture
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Here where I live Black was the color of death and evil, like "the Black Death" (the plague), "Black like a Devil", "the Black one" (death), and so on. So the meaning of colors can be different depending on culture.
"The Black Death", old Norwegian picture
Notice you have death when calling Black. Its not within the word of Black alone. You have other words with Black Like Black and Power
What I mean is that Black like what the Holy Bible means Black means.
Just like white means leprosy and sickness like what The Holy Bible says>
And as Gehazi left his presence, he was leprous—as white as snow .
So white means sickness and disease while Black means strength and power and Beauty as the Holy Bible means meaning that White people are not normal to the Holy Bible and the Holy Bible is a Black Book
edit: Hence we can Know that Jesus Christ is Black because the Holy Bible looks down on White and Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was Born and he would of been Born of Blacks because Blacks were the Oldest People and The First People. So The Son of God would of Come in the Image of the First Man, Black Man.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Well, the authors of the Bible probably did not know about Scandinavia and the culture here. Black people were not often seen here, so up here it was not normal with black skin.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Well, the authors of the Bible probably did not know about Scandinavia and the culture here. Black people were not often seen here, so up here it was not normal with black skin.
Now that its settled that White skin is a sickness and not part of the Holy Bible.
Why would you call people dark skin when dark skin means evil and white skin means light skin. Cant have it both ways where the Light is part of White skin and Black a word used for power and beauty is linked more to rich skin then it is to dark because dark means evilskin
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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That film got accused of whitewashing Egyptian culture.
I haven't looked into what are your sources? It has to be something with some viewership, people with real names making claims, not random people making twitter comments, etc
Wikipedia often covers controversies but I dont see mention on their Night at the Museum page
Cast anybody as an Egyptian, soon you can find hundreds of disparaging comments on social media from every viewpoint, everybody has an opinion and can go post something
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Why are you asking me what ancient anything is to me? That is my point. You jump from Cleopatra to sitting here acting people have to explain to anybody why they are interested in what they are interested in. Like I said, discussing Cleopatra is one thing but going beyond that to tell people what they should or shouldn't be interested in is another and you just did it right there. That goes beyond simple discussing a "controversy" over a TV show and into territory of whining about facts of history you don't like. And that is precisely what I am talking about. This "controversy" is basically some people online whining and trolling black people about them studying history and exposing lies told by Egyptology. This has always been the issue and goes back long before this Cleopatra documentary.
And you often act like the issues with these historical debates is an issue of online trolling not facts. When someone presents you the facts, you skip right past that and keep going back to online trolling and ignoring anything else.
I asked you earlier what you thought of Nora saying that Kemet means "Land of the Black Soil" since you posted a link to it and yet no response.
You posted examples of these people objecting to black entertainers using cultural elements in the Nile Valley, but avoid making a conclusion on whether it is justified or simply harassment. You do this all the time and act like somehow this behavior is justified as if "black people" are simply doing something to deserve this. Or that their views on history and culture should not be respected in all cases. That is the part I am calling out. The fact that the controversy exists is one thing, but going beyond that to justify stereotyping all black people in one bucket is a problem, not to mention defending such anti-black propaganda.
If someone is whining it is you. Let the Egyptians have their culture in peace, it is not up to you or any other American or westerner what Egyptians think or say about their own culture or history.
Wasnt it you whining about African Americans on the internet as if they are the only ones who engage in abusive behavior online to suggest that anti-black propaganda is somehow justified?
You do this all the time. And then when facts and evidence are provided you skip over all that to keep going on this rant about "oh my gawd the Egyptians are being attacked by all these black folks online". Please. And of course the implied answer is that black people shouldn't have anything to say about African history as if they aren't Africans.
Please dude. I already said this before, criticizing the show is one thing, extending beyond that to try and tell black people what they should and shouldn't be interested in is something else.
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I think Doug is right in part, anybody has the right to be interested in studying a culture other than their own On the other hand there is a large culture of African Americans now making well produced videos on youtube and other social media claiming to be Aboriginal Americans, Moorish Americans, the real Israelites, the descendants of Egyptians if not saying modern Egyptians are all Arab or Greek with no ancient ancestry, the Greeks stole philosophy etc The Red Black and Green Pan-African movement of the 90s and interest in West African culture, much less popular, very much waning comparatively
And Doug acts like this does not exist because of racist legacy in some of Egyptology
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:I think Doug is right in part, anybody has the right to be interested in studying a culture other than their own On the other hand there is a large culture of African Americans now making well produced videos on youtube and other social media claiming to be Aboriginal Americans, Moorish Americans, the real Israelites, the descendants of Egyptians if not saying modern Egyptians are all Arab or Greek with no ancient ancestry, the Greeks stole philosophy etc The Red Black and Green Pan-African movement of the 90s and interest in West African culture, much less popular, very much waning comparatively
And Doug acts like this does not exist because of racist legacy in some of Egyptology
And unfortunately those people have a tail of more or less disturbed followers who troll the net, and many times harass people who criticize those who make those videos, books and similar.
I remember seeing such trolls harassing Native Americans online calling them "invaders" (interesting they use same choise of word concerning Egyptians), "Siberians", "Filipino slaves" and many other things. And they even sent hate mail to peoples private mailboxes. Now one can see this same behaviour repeted online against Egyptians. Claiming Egypt as theirs and hating on people who oppose that.
To be interested in other cultures is one thing, to insert oneself in those cultures is another. And to even insult the descendants of those cultures is even worse.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Probably Jada Pinkett Smith does not know enough about Egyptian culture, Egyptian politics or the dynamics of different groups interactions in Egypt, to play her cards right. She seems to first and foremost cater to an American, or at least Western, audience, and the backlash from Egyptians she had maybe not foreseen. At least not to that extent.
On top of that the series has also ben accused of sloppy production, wrong clothes and props, factual errors, bad dialogue, bad acting and other problems.
But of course this is not the first time Hollywood got other peoples history wrong.
Btw I saw in HBO:s Tv series Rome (which was a British series) that they portraid many of the Egyptians as dark skinned as in the picture, but what I know of Egyptians did not protest (?). But Cleopatra herself was portrayed as light skinned. And the portrait of her personality was not flattering.
But the producers did not went out with political statements or claiming that someone's grandmother told them that Egyptians were black (or at least Cleopatra).
I don't know what Jada Smith was thinking or what she knows about Egyptian history. A smart person would've done her research but I doubt that was the case. Jada is a Hollywood elitist and a black woman at that which entails a certain mentality.
Meanwhile Matthew Wortman, a white man, did it first.
He used a Moroccan actor to play Akhenaten in 'Nefertiti Resurrected'
And there's this gem who played Nefertari, wife of Rameses in 'Ramses: Wrath of God or Man'
^ She's a model who is either Egyptian or some country in the Maghreb.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^^The Mummy from 2017 used an Algerian woman. The film is hardly a documentary but it seems they still wanted some kind of African connection with Sofia Boutella in the leading role as the ancient Egyptian Princess Ahmanet.
And as mentioned in the film Night at the Museum 2 (2009) they used an Egyptian American, Rami Malek as Pharaoh Ahkmenrah.
In the Vampire movie Queen of the Damned (2002) an African American actress, Aaliyah played the ancient Egyptian vampire queen Akasha
So you want them to suppress free speech? Why? That is a bit extreme isn't it?
Secondly, Egyptology and people like Hawass have no problem with "internet trolls" when it comes to supporting the status quo of the ancient Nile not being black African. Like I posted before, the "official response" to Netflix is on a youtube channel run by Curtis Ryan Woodside who promotes painting over literal mummies with white paint in photoshop. Not to mention most of the online trolls who promote this absurdist logic of the ancient Nile Valley are getting their talking points straight from mainstream Egyptology. I mean isn't it Hawass running all over the place claiming the ancient Nile Valley population wasnt black. And wasn't it Selima Ikram who recently said on a youtube stream that the colors in the ancient art of the Nile supported a skin color based caste system? So who is really trolling here. The whole underlying point here is these people don't like being challenged on their nonsense and they know that it isn't the "online trolls" that are hurting them, as opposed to the facts that are being exposed contradicting their claims. That is why they want to shut down any debate and discussion so their lies can go unchallenged, not because they are scared of trolls when they have been feeding their own trolls online for years.
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posted
Well there are trolls and trolls. I wonder if it is a coincidence that same kind of trolls who harass Native Americans online, who spoke out about cultural appropriation, also are doing the same with Egyptians who speak out online
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
On the other hand there is a large culture of African Americans now making well produced videos on youtube and other social media claiming to be Aboriginal Americans, Moorish Americans, the real Israelites, the descendants of Egyptians if not saying modern Egyptians are all Arab or Greek with no ancient ancestry, the Greeks stole philosophy etc
------------- And Doug acts like this does not exist because of racist legacy in some of Egyptology.
There is no denial that there are some extreme Afrocentrics who through books and films claim all sorts of other cultures, like Olmecs, ancient Minoans, Israelites. These persons have been around for years, some of them having posted also here on ES, without always being challenged except by a few posters.
And as I said, they have a tail of followers who for years have enthusiastically supported and spread their ideas online, but unfortunately also harassed people who tried to call out some of the worst BS.
About Egyptians banning films: They have been doing that for several reasons, not only because some actors being black. Many times it has been out of religious or political reasons. Some times it has been because there has been Israel actors or actors who supported Israel. Here is a couple of examples
posted
Would be interesting to see if the controversy will affect any of hose scholars who are interviewed in Netflix Cleopatra.
Coleen Darnell has obviously claimed that she did not know how the film would look like when it was finished. If she knew the final result and the controversy she would maybe not have participated.
She also said:
quote: I really believe that placing modern racial categories that was emphasis in the trailer onto the ancient past is not historically accurate and there was speculation in the show and there is speculation among historians that Cleopatra's mother may have been Egyptian and there was an opportunity missed to cast Cleopatra well with an Egyptian actress that was the perfect opportunity to highlight the potential origins of Cleopatra's family if her mother were Egyptian and have her portrayed by an Egyptian actress and I think what's most significant to empathize is that the descendants of the ancient Egyptians are people living in modern Egypt
posted
Banning films for reasons such as having an African American actor is nothing but extreme. There is nothing about it that is legitimate. But this has absolutely nothing to do with this Netflix program. You have to understand that MOST documentaries made about the ancient Nile Valley have been made by foreign studios for foreign audiences and Hawass and others mostly make their money participating in these foreign based films. Hardly any of these programs are made in Arabic for an audience in the Nile Valley speaking arabic. Just keep that in mind. So again, this has absolutely nothing to do with Afrocentric trolls as these documentaries have mostly been full of pseudoscience since the beginning mostly based on wild hype and speculation. And the Egyptian authorities have absolutely no problem with that as long as it promotes tourism. So when they see black people doing something in any way related to the ancient Nile Valley and become outraged or want to ban it, it just becomes obvious hypocrisy and anti-black propaganda.
Now if all of these documentaries were produced by Egyptians with Egyptians as actors and actresses that would be a different story. Even if they were still of pseudo science, but the fact is most of the narratives about the history of the Nile come from Europeans and the Eurocentric view is the dominant view of Nile Valley and that did not originate with Egyptians. And the Egyptians have absolutely been fine with that and Eurocentric trolls for a very long time. In fact they cater to those people.
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Egyptians have said they want to do their own drama documentary about Cleopatra to counterbalance Netflix Cleopatra. Shall be interesting to see if they will make it and, if they make it, how they will depict her and Egypt during her time.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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posted
Egyptians made a TV series once about Cleopatra, but it was a drama and not a documentary. At that time they had a Syrian leading actress (the series was a joint production between Egypt and Syria).
Zahi Hawass did not like it, it was not historically correct he said.
The impression of the video is somewhat diminished by the videomakers inability to point out Finland on a map. The country highlighted in the map is not Finland, but Sweden.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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posted
Egypt was a major player in the intersection between Africa, Europe and Asia for thousands of years. Their net of contacts reached out in all directions, through trade, war and different cultural exchange. The location of Egypt is quite unique along a river that leads southwards to the inner parts of Africa, besides two seas and besides a landbridge towards Asia.
Here is an earlier tread about ancient contacts in different directions.
posted
About the race of the ancient Egyptians: There has been a discussion going on since at least the 18th century. Wikipedia has a summary Ancient Egyptian race controversy
Seems that many scholars today avoid the subject, or make a kind of compromise
quote: Mainstream scholars reject the notion that Egypt was a white or black civilization; they maintain that applying modern notions of black or white races to ancient Egypt is anachronistic. In addition, scholars reject the notion, implicit in the notion of a black or white Egypt hypothesis, that Ancient Egypt was racially homogeneous; instead, skin color varied between the peoples of Lower Egypt, Upper Egypt, and Nubia, who in various eras rose to power in Ancient Egypt. Within Egyptian history, despite multiple foreign invasions, the demographics were not shifted substantially by large migrations
A map from a lecture illustrates the notion of a skin color gradient in Ancient Egypt
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: About the race of the ancient Egyptians: There has been a discussion going on since at least the 18th century. Wikipedia has a summary Ancient Egyptian race controversy
Seems that many scholars today avoid the subject, or make a kind of compromise
quote: Mainstream scholars reject the notion that Egypt was a white or black civilization; they maintain that applying modern notions of black or white races to ancient Egypt is anachronistic. In addition, scholars reject the notion, implicit in the notion of a black or white Egypt hypothesis, that Ancient Egypt was racially homogeneous; instead, skin color varied between the peoples of Lower Egypt, Upper Egypt, and Nubia, who in various eras rose to power in Ancient Egypt. Within Egyptian history, despite multiple foreign invasions, the demographics were not shifted substantially by large migrations
A map from a lecture illustrates the notion of a skin color gradient in Ancient Egypt
Seems people don't understand.
The answer to the race of the Egyptians have been answered. Egyptians are Black
The hieroglyph for Face is a Black African.
We Won the debate when this face hieroglyph showed a Black African.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
^^ So you think that all Ancient Egyptians, through all times, looked exactly like those hieroglyphs? No variation over time, or geographically?
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: ^^ So you think that all Ancient Egyptians, through all times, looked exactly like those hieroglyphs? No variation over time, or geographically?
THINK!
If the hieroglyph for Face is Black African, that means the original Egyptians are Black African, and the majority of Egyptians are Black African. And the outsiders were just that outsiders
The debate is over. Ancient Egyptians are Black African
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
It does not say so much more than that the inventor of the hieroglyph may have looked like that, or that he saw people around him looking like that. Maybe the sign later became a convention. It does not mean that all Egyptians in all times always looked like that hieroglyph. I suppose you seen a lot of statues and paintings from ancient Egypt. Does everyone look the same on those depictions? Does everyone have the same facial features or hair?
Showing a hieroglyph do not tell much. We must study all depictions, we must study human remains, we must study DNA, to get a full picture of Egyptian demography.
Still we have not so very much DNA from ancient Egypt. When we get more, we will also get a more realistic and balanced view of ancient demographics, beyond political slogans.
To show one sign and think that it represents all people in a geographic area for at least 3000 years is a bit simplistic.
There are thousands of ancient Egyptians depicted in art, and all do not look the same. Mostly they seem to have been brown in skin tone, but their facial features have varied a lot.
Have you yourself been to Egypt and looked at ancient art yourself? Have you looked at the people in todays Egypt and studied the variation among people living there?
I am of the opinion that no one can be an expert of Ancient Egypt without having been in Egypt and studied some of its monuments and art in person, or seen the people there.
I am no expert of ancient Egypt, but it seems there has been a certain variation among its people, at least as it is depicted in art.
I wish though they could produce more DNA studies from different periods and different geographical locals.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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