posted
Marc.W yes the pic above is sighted in Golden Age OF The Moors...but it also came from Nature Knows No Colorline...like I said earlier hundreds of pics of Africans about to become Black Euros then plain ol Euros is availible...but also very important is that you can trace their names and plot their family history down to this day.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Egmond. Again I note that you are one of the only Afrocentric researchers today unraveling our roots in Europe. Three cheers for your work and hopefully it will even accelerate.
Brada. One day, hopefully soon, I will get a copy of NATURE KNOWS NO COLORLINE.
Here is an interesting case of the Strasbourg and related family names being traced back to (by phenotype) Africans / Negroes / blacks:
It appears the Strasbourg is the most illustrious name in all of France, Germany, and Sweden.
Question: while the Moors wore the headband as above, it is also seen in the shabti armies of Egyptian tombs guarding the king and royalty as far back as the First Intermediate Period (11th - 17th dynasty). Does anyone have information about a possible ancestry of the Moors originating in Egypt. Maybe not. But, can't hurt to ask.
______________________ A GEM - Historical name, Haydn, traced to African ______________________
Here is another illustrious name though I wish there were contemporary pictures to bolster it. Egmond, you posted a Haydn quote I browsed to find coming up with the page below.
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-------------------- The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation. Posts: 2334 | Registered: May 2006
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About the head bands posted before but I guess no one paid attention.
The relationship of the black image to the concept of justice was nowhere more politically utilized than with the Holy Roman emperors of the Hohenstauffern dynasty. Indeed, it would appear that the sable blazon of the imperial eagle and that of the moor's head were meant to be perceived as synonymous. The simple headbands worn by both are, as a matter of fact, identical and, interestingly enough, nothing less, despite the simplicity of the design, than the imperial diadem' of ancient Rome. Also interesting is the fantastic coat of arms attributed to Ethiopia by the heralds of the middle ages. For like the bicephalic bird of the Holy Roman Empire, Ethiopia bore a 'v' shaped emblem with a blackamoor's head 'torsed' at the end of each arm.
This parallelism between both sets of heads can, of course, be explained by the "rex / sacerdos" argument which occupied the very centre of the political stage during this particular period of history. To both the papacy that preached the imperial nature of its sanctified position and the Hohenstauffern dynasty that proclaimed the priestliness of its own power, the figure of Prester John became an almost magical icon. Because we today know that the double-headed eagle represented the claims of both the church and the state, it would be quite logical to surmise that the reason why Ethiopia's arms were conceived as double-headed is due to the belief already mentioned that the Negus (emperor) exercised the prerogatives of both priest and king
For really good info please type in secret sigillum in your search engine you wont be dissapointed.
Dear, there are requests on this as on other site's where you have posted this particular image, for some sources and provenance. The information you present leads back to you alone. There are some details on this image which look strange to someone who knows these kind of images.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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Mario de Valdes y Cocom does not impress me so much because he follows eurocentric definitions of blackness. I have noticed that in religious imagery gods and saints look like the people who worship them. They are beautiful, idealized types. Yet we had in Europe images of black saints and Madonna's. This tells me that the elite was black and of black origins. Blue blood is black blood. Church leaders were also regarded as princes of the church and often noble from birth. In Surinam I saw death-white images of the Holy Virgin, a whiteness of complexion not found in nature. Extremely offensive to find them in Surinam, a country of black and coloured people who have wrestled themselves away from Dutch colonisation, but are again being recolonized. With the help of blacks, of course.
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[Louis XIV by Hyacinthe Rigaud: interestingly one Lenoir writes that Louis' XIV mummy was the color of ink (l'encre). I believe him to have been black of skin, alive; blue blood]
posted
That's how megavideo works pardon for not explaining, you have to click the red play button first, then close the pop up, then click the green play button and it should play....
Btw, Megavideo will only let you watch 72 minutes (1 hour and 12 mins) for free then you have to wait 54 minutes before watching the rest for free, the whole video is 1 hour and 35 mins. Sorry for the inconvenience but it's the way megavideo works, not me .
Let me know if it works, thanks.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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@ Egmond so casuall eye balling of non discript paintings impress you...instead of what you can prove???...finding Euros with odd features...or..paintings that seems off "Color" is not proof of anything untill you can show who did the shading..when,where and why. maybe you have such proof at hand but not sharing right now...waiting for a book release....if that's the case then i'll STFUP. So right now Iam just looking at what you choose to release to the public.
As far as my ID is concern It's real easy to find...as I am not really hiding and No!!! I am not DJ...our writing styles is different he has info that I can only wish I had.
But I can tell you this!! I am not your enemy...Iam just people and if I can raise these questions so can others who has more experience raising such quetions...but if you are going give into paranoria...that anybody who critisize aspects of your work...is out to get you then you loose.
Remember I did not say all aspect of your work is without merit.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Hi Egmond. You asked for more background on the tapestry.
Late last winter, I gave all the scanty information I have about the tapestry. However, at ACH just this morning, Bonotchim wrote in response to an inquiry made for further information on it the following:
I do not know if this information about the picture has already been posted but the picture in full can be found on pa.14-15. The Image of the Black in Western Art. II From the Early Christian era to the "Age of Discovery", 2 Africans in the Christian Ordinance of the World.
More about the picture can be found there. This picture is only a small section of a tapestry 100cmx490cm or 3ftx16ft. full of symbolic meaning which the editors goes into in some detail. Time does not permit me to post it now if no one post the full picture before this evening I will. The full image is black and white.Bro. Bonotchi
I'd follow up and check those sources.
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-------------------- The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation. Posts: 2334 | Registered: May 2006
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Below is mentioned another branch, the Lapps, bore a Moor's-bust crest with a boar's tush, the Moor being clad in red with a silver star.
These Lapp can be none other than the Saami, the reindeer people whose ranks were inundated by white incursives who became the next wave of the Finns replacing the older original Finns, the black Saami / the Lapp of 100 BC below:
The above figure is properly an Ekven but the Lapp and all indigeous peoples before the coming of whites bore the same culture and lifestyle. This Lapp is described as a Moor.
The total effect is that a troop of blacks armed, organized, 'urban' small of stature, clashing with the band of giant wild men. What is at stake? Three persons leaing out of the window of the keep - a crowned black king with a white beard, a black queen with blond hair, and a black princess whose arms are outstretched in a gesture of tearful pleading.
[My comments at ACH today after seeing the above]
Pretty amazing. They even mention a Lapps amorial. The Lapps being probably the Saami of Finland but who would seem to have extended down through the Germanic lands – and why not as they had been there for thousands of years and are seemingly attested to in neolithic rock art as also a seafaring people not just reindeer. But, the Germanic onslaught was ferocious and fatal. Have to say I got it right in noting the giant-sized whites and diminuitive blacks facing a life-and-death struggle. He idenifies the Moors as the Saracen Moors.
Seems the writer hedged in trying to associate the wild white men with the Moorish amorial. These people they stove to kill and lands take? Why would they identify themselves as black? The life-style of the Stasbourgs was of nobility not landlessness. The writer is trying to pull a fast one and snatch noble origins from the Moors somehow claiming it as the domain of who he calls wild white men.
Not today, James.
Bonotchim. Many, many thanks for this forgotten history.
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-------------------- The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation. Posts: 2334 | Registered: May 2006
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[How do we decide we are dealing with two images of blacks with classical African feautures? By looking at them!]
Such overtures! No you are not my enemy for just talking out of your ass. Bringing in all this eurocentric b.s., that’s what bothers me. Just try to do something major and start thinking for your self. There is scientific proof that shows the first human was black and they came to Europe, long before the whites. There are medieval reports of blacks in Europa. There is a deluge of Moors in the arts. Whites making Moor heads in gold! Why? Whites worshipping a Black Madonna? I do not believe it. Not unless someone forced them to. Those images were blacks, made by blacks for blacks.
Paintings should be savoured with the eyes as rolling them up and shoving them up you’re a.h. might be a tad unhygienic and painful, no? Someone who is black will look black. As Liotard painted himself we might expect some resemblance to his person. More interesting is how he eliminates his brown colour and changes his features as time wears on. The argument of ‘eye-balling’ is usually used by people who are dumb parrots. Because by the same eyeballing these whites declare someone white. Do you think they do an ancestor check before they pronounce people white? Hell, no!
Yes, one has to be careful to make big pronouncements on the strength of one portrait, but it cannot be that the image does not count for anything. I’m conducting a forensic research and will use any lead. The stricture against eyeballing is mostly used by eurocentrism to deny that there were blacks in Europe, forming an elite. As they are brainwashed that such a thing is absolutely impossible, because blacks are inferior, they will deny every bit of evidence. Blacks who want to show that they are like whites, to get praise from whites, will utter the same b.s. and effectively state that blacks are not equal to whites. Perhaps these blacks are themselves ignorant and come from the bush and expect any black to be ignorant. Which is not the case.
Blacks come in many shapes and types, not all confirm to the classical African type, such as the Moor. There were times when blacks were convinced that black features were ugly, so they had images made to look white. While they did not dream of marrying white. Blackness is not only the phenotype. We are not our phenotype. I find identity much more relevant. This can be gauged from intermarriage with other blacks. By subscribing to a black identity like blue blood. Blue blood is a black identity like the Rasta life style is a black identity, perhaps two extremes from the whole spectrum of black identities.
But most off all we do not get to see the whole body of European images. A few writers have stated that art and images were destroyed, around the French Revolution. This is also mentioned for Holland after 1795. The problem is with these people who monopolise the information, sitting on it with their putty asses. These are the same people who you have to proof to that this or that person was black. So a researcher has to decide whose side he is on. Which is the group that needs to be convinced?
Many Surinamese I spoke to, like to see themselves as ’reasonable’ and looking at any debate from two sides. Like the question that their former enslaver and oppressor, their archenemy in fact, is recolonising them is something to be debated. And descendents of Dutch slaves taking it upon themselves to defend Dutch views. Sickening!
Its 3 a.m and the thief and murderer is standing in your living room, after forcing the steel mesh protecting your front door, but you are a 'reasonable' person so you ask him ‘Sir, are you lost?’
That’s precisely the heresy I responding to in your increasingly stupid postings.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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Kretschmann, Georg: Der Schatz der Wettiner. Der Sensationsfund in Sachsen. Unter Mitarbeit von Dirk Syndram. Leipzig: Seemann, 1997. 120 S. Gebundene Ausgabe. ISBN: 3363006713 (EAN: 9783363006711 / 978-3363006711)
Einband leicht berieben, sonst gutes und sauberes Exemplar. - Im Oktober 1996 machte ein aufsehenerregender Schatzfund in Sachsen weltweit Schlagzeilen. Junge Leute aus Dresden waren im Wald bei Moritzburg auf wertvolle Kunstgegenstände und goldenes Tafelgeschirr aus dem Besitz des ehemaligen sächsischen Königshauses gestoßen! Zwei Tage lang hatten sie mit ihrem Gewissen gerungen, dann vertrauten sie sich dem Direktor des Grünen Gewölbes an. Wenige Stunden später setzte ein Archäologenteam die Grabung in dem sofort abgeriegelten Waldgebiet fort... Eine spannende Schilderung sämtlicher Phasen dieser modernen Schatzsuche, einschließlich ihrer Vorgeschichte und Hintergründe. Alle geborgenen Kleinodien werden hier erstmals in brillianten Aufnahmen vorgestellt und ausführlich beschrieben. -- Inhalt: Georg Kretschmann, Prinzen, Profis und Pretiosen: Ein ruhiger Freitag -- Der Anruf im Grünen Gewölbe -- Wer sind die Schatzgräber? -- Der "Mohrenkopf" auf dem Kachelofen -- Ein Fall für die Archäologen -- Die Nacht im Walde -- Die Wettin-Erben -- Mit Metallsonden und Klappspaten -- Die Hoheiten treffen ein -- Das Fax aus Kanada -- Gefahr für die Kostbarkeiten -- Die Vergrabung -- Flucht mit Krone -- Moritzburg 1947 -- Wo sind die Schätze aus der "Russengrube"? -- Dirk Syndram, Der Kunstschatz aus dem Waldboden: Die Pretiosen sind geborgen -- Der Umfang des Fundes -- Wettinischer Kunstbesitz und Fürstenabfindung von 1924 -- Das vergrabene Hofsilber -- Zur Geschichte der Hofsilberkammer -- Das letzte Tafelsilber des Königshauses -- Die wiederentdeckten Kunstschätze -- Das Gesellschaftsstück des Mainzer Kurfürst-Erzbischofs -- Die Greifenklaue von Valentin Geitner -- Johann Melchior Dinglingers Blumenkorb -- Christoph Jamnitzers Mohrenkopfpokal -- Diegotischen Kreuzreliquiare -- Die weiteren Kunstschätze. ISBN 3363006713 Schlagworte: Wettiner
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Home > Library > Entertainment & Arts > Art Encyclopedia(b Nuremberg, 12 May 1563; d Nuremberg, 1618). Grandson of (1) Wenzel Jamnitzer I. He did not qualify as a master goldsmith until he was 29, having perhaps served his apprenticeship in the workshop of Hans Petzolt. There are records of his journey to Prague in 1609, and it is thought that he spent some time in Italy. While he mastered the Italian repertory of form, he preferred to use an idiom that was part neo-Gothic and part bizarrely exaggerated, both trends being popular in Nuremberg c. 1600 and after. Research has revealed that Christoph was a particularly fine draughtsman; c. 80 drawings can now be definitely ascribed to him, including pictures from family albums and designs for book illustrations, sculptural work, fountains, plaques and items made by goldsmiths. His best-known work is the Neuw Grottessken Buch (Nuremberg, 1610), a pattern-book of grotesque ornaments including mythological scenes, the Four Elements and the Four Seasons, enriched with many subtle cultural and contemporary allusions.
Part of the Jamnitzer family
download
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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You sir are a NUT.you posted pic of White people and called them Blacks...perhaps the weakest part of your argument...you made a theory fine!!! no problem go foward...no one here said anything about No Blacks in Europe..from before Europe even had a name No one said anything about Blacks not starting or joining European nobility...but you are too thin-skinned for anyone to take a critical look at your work then by all means have a conversation by yourself. good day and good luck to you sir.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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The New Black Caucasians – Changing Meaning of the Caucasian – By Lion!
The New “Black Caucasians” – Changing Meaning of the Caucasian - New Caucasian Delusions
In 1937, Caucasians were defined as “the white division of human beings so called because the people are from the Caucaus mountains. They were taken from the highest type of the human family, the circassians, Jews, Armenians, Hindus and Persians.” See Webster’s 20th century Dictionary unabridged, 1937.
A more recent revision of the New Websters dictionary, 1981 defined the terms as: “Caucasian- pertaining to the white race as characterized by physical features. A native of the Caucausus, a member of the Caucasian race.”
In 1992, the American Heritage Dictionary, 3rd Ed,1992 moved this re-definition process even further for it boldly declared as follows: “Caucasian- of relating to, or being a major human racial division traditionally distinguished by physical characteristics such as very light to BROWN skin (??) pigmentation and straight to wavy orcurly hair, and includes people indigenous to Europe, northern AFRICA(??),Western Asia, and India, relating to the Caucasian region of its peoples.”
The definition of Caucasian that exists in Webster’s New World College Dictionary of 1996 is a 180 degrees turn around from the term’s usage in the early parts of the 20th century. In the Webster’s dictionary one finds the following so called explanation: “Caucasoid- from the erroneous notion that the original home of the hypothetical indo-europeans was the Caucasus ..one of the major…varieties of human beings…characterized by…straight or wavy hair..loosely called the white race although it embraces many people of DARK (??) skin color.”
Motivation For A Historic Lie
We all thought that Caucasian meant the so-called white race, (actually a pink-pale coloured tribe from Central Asia) who today dominate Europe, America and the rest of the world. This tribe was the last civilized tribe of humanity, yet it claims to be the first world nation.
Until recently, it was quite understood that the essential difference between the pink northern European (Caucasians) and the brown African (Coloureds)was the colour of their skin. It appears that the Euro-controllers of the world, dominators of the world consciousness, have now redefined the meaning of Caucasian to include Africans.
Why would they do this: To keep Moors (so-called Africans) confused about their identity; to keep Europeans deluded about their abilities; to steal the legacy and achievement of worthier civilizations; to perpetuate pink-skin supremacy by erasing the collective memory of humanity and giving an impression of a collective mass that does not exist in fact.
They also lie to the rest of us, so that we do not know where we are coming from or where we are all heading to. And where are we heading to? To a world of sanity, equity, and balance. We are fighting for a world where white (pink-skin) supremacy is utterly destroyed. Our strenght is in numbers, and we cannot be conquered, as long as we are aware of their manipulations and underhand tactis.
Keep watch, Moorish children, the night is almost over and the false one is in a great panic!
Lion!
See : Suzar, “Blacked Out through whitewash” at www.suzar.com
Interesting. Now, whites were still just entering Germanic lands even until the 15th century coming from the north with no knowledge of elephants. Yet, Moors / Celts / La Tene / Halstaat arriving in Europe from North Africa over thousands of years did.
I'd say it was African craftsmen who created works of black people such as the masterpiece shown earlier by Egmond ...
and this one from the Kremlin:
Irina Nenarokomova, Art Treasures of the Museums of the Moscow Kremlin, (Sovetsky Khudozhnik Publishers, Moscow, 1980), p. 97.
ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE THAT IT WAS AFRICAN CRAFTSMEN WHO MADE THE ELEPHANT WORKS OF GOLD AND NOT GERMANIC PEOPLES OR SLAVS
Tacitus's work, Germania describes the first experience and life of the Germanic tribes in Europe following their migration in the early ADs.
They experienced gold for the first time and as this is so, there was no culture that would create works of art in gold as there was among the Africans meaning the Celts, Moors, and so forth.
Following is an account showing this lack of ancient knowledge of gold and lack of interest in using gold as an art form as required for the elephant works of gold.
To cope with their surroundings, the warriors had developed powerful physiques, yet their abundant resources of strength and stamina proved not to be a source of pleasure for them, for the warriors had "no fondness for feats of endurance or for hard work" (Tacitus, Germania). In earthly matters, Germany's apparent lack of precious metals made the warriors quite utilitarian in regards to physical possession. They preferred silver to gold, as silver could be more easily fashioned into useful objects. Only the tribes of warriors on the borders of the Roman empire recognized gold and silver as trading commodities, while the ‘backwoods' tribes traded through the simple practice of barter, yielding one item in exchange for another (Tacitus, Germania).
quote:Originally posted by kahanyah: I dont get this thread. Is it being claimed the moors were solely afro-negros? were the afro negros the majority of the moorish population?
I look forward to the replies.
You get it, you just cant accept it, troll.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
it seems YOU'RE the troll. I asked legitimate questions. Instead of responding to the questions, you retort by antagonizing.
Let me see if I can find the *ignore* feature.
quote:Originally posted by JMT2:
quote:Originally posted by kahanyah: I dont get this thread. Is it being claimed the moors were solely afro-negros? were the afro negros the majority of the moorish population?
quote:Originally posted by kahanyah: I dont get this thread. Is it being claimed the moors were solely afro-negros? were the afro negros the majority of the moorish population? I look forward to the replies.
In present speech a Moor is a figure one finds depicted in European art and heraldry. He or she can be recognized from their Classical African looks. Black skin, woolly hair, broad noses, thick lips and subnasel prognatism or a high facial angle.
The Spanish Moors do not seem to me of any lasting political force outside medieval Spain. As I have started this thread, and you might be new to this forum, I can inform you that I have launched a new and daring theory called Blue blood is black blood (1500-1789). The great discussions about the colour of the Spanish Moors and those about the colour of the Ancient Egyptians I find useless and they seem to be used to lure black researchers away of the blacks ‘they’ don’t want us to know about. Namely the black and coloured European kings, nobles and intellectuals (1500-1789). Watch my next thread where I will show how a black researcher should approach things differently, to make sense of it all and most importantly: make progress.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
so in other words, youre coming up with a new brand of pseudo history (actually its not), the people who ruled europe during the "dark" ages were blacks.
quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
quote:Originally posted by kahanyah: I dont get this thread. Is it being claimed the moors were solely afro-negros? were the afro negros the majority of the moorish population? I look forward to the replies.
In present speech a Moor is a figure one finds depicted in European art and heraldry. He or she can be recognized from their Classical African looks. Black skin, woolly hair, broad noses, thick lips and subnasel prognatism or a high facial angle.
The Spanish Moors do not seem to me of any lasting political force outside medieval Spain. As I have started this thread, and you might be new to this forum, I can inform you that I have launched a new and daring theory called Blue blood is black blood (1500-1789). The great discussions about the colour of the Spanish Moors and those about the colour of the Ancient Egyptians I find useless and they seem to be used to lure black researchers away of the blacks ‘they’ don’t want us to know about. Namely the black and coloured European kings, nobles and intellectuals (1500-1789). Watch my next thread where I will show how a black researcher should approach things differently, to make sense of it all and most importantly: make progress.
Albert Eckhout 1610-1655 'Negerhoofd met Tulband' oile op doek, 58*45 cm, collectie Beatriz e Mario Pimenta, Carmargo, SP
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by kahanyah: so in other words, youre coming up with a new brand of pseudo history (actually its not), the people who ruled europe during the "dark" ages were blacks.
Sweetheart, every new brand of history IS pseudo history, unless you are god, which you are not, who knows how every thing really went down. We are just attempting to make a fair reconstruction.
I have solved the mystery of racism and white supremacy.
What about you?
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