posted
I was just About to post this!!! I'm fucking hyped. Yo the references seem to be on point, I see a lot of west African ofcourse, Fulani hairstyles, Bambaran type clothing and masks. Some Burkino-Faso like Archetecture,
I wonder how they'll handle the deep rooted connections with km.t that goes with the lore of BP. in the regions of the fictional setting every god is actually representative of an African Diety, the Black panther is Baset, ..Sekhmet and Ptah are also very important.
The script on the columns are interesting, for the concept art they use a lot of these weird scripts, in the comics they had a made up script, a "precursor to demotic" (IDK how that makes sense but its fiction) but I wonder if coogler n the gang will use some actual neo-Demotic or Meroitic like scripts and insignia.
We got African weapons we can actually recognize in some of these shots.
But they crammed a lot of Africa in here, from the Kente styled patterns to Sotho inspired cold gear... it's a treat tbh
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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posted
Yeah the young chick with the hand cannons!!
I think that girl to the right might be her...
And would you look at that Sotho Gear... I haven't seen anything like this hit the big screen, the closest thing in terms of references was the movie Samsara and even they snoozed on Africa.
***[edit]I've also edited my previous comment, w/ some thoughts
quote:Originally posted by Mansamusa: Whats up with the lip-plating?
Is there a problem with it?
Yeah. It looks out of place and "barbaric" as fvck. It misrepresents even the culture it copies;Only females do lip-plating. Less than 1% of cultures in Africa do that kind of thing. Looks like the kind of exotic dehumanizing stuff that a White tourist in Africa would be interested in. What the hell is it doing in a super-hero movie?
Posts: 288 | From: Asia | Registered: Mar 2016
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I can't explain enough how many debates I have gotten to with so called "pro-black" people online who only see it as "barbaric as fuck" due them being influenced by western thinking. Its only barbaric as fuck to those who believe any non-western influenced African culture is inferior.
Let me tell you I been to Africa and seen stuff like this first hand. And while I would NEVER do something like this myself, I was WOWED by the exoticness and "tabooness" of it. When I was in Africa the so called "primitive Nilotics" interested me more than the modern Cushite/Amahara people. Why? Because it was out of this world.
Its different seeing it in person than seeing it on Google images or a Youtube video.
More importantly Wakanda is in EAST repeat EAST Africa and right near the area where the Surma people are located.
So its no surprise they would incorporate it into the movie among MANY OTHER African cultural elements as shown by Elmaestro.
No offense but people like you only want to see Africa in one light and not the other.
As for as lip plates being only for females. I don't know, but we shouldn't nit pick one thing when they are representing many African cultures especially those from East Africa.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: @Mansamusa
I can't explain enough how many debates I have gotten to with so called "pro-black" people online who only see it as "barbaric as fuck" due them being influenced by western thinking. Its only barbaric as fuck to those who believe any non-western influenced African culture is inferior.
Let me tell you I been to Africa and seen stuff like this first hand. And while I would NEVER do something like this myself, I was WOWED by the exoticness and "tabooness" of it. When I was in Africa the so called "primitive Nilotics" interested me more than the modern Cushite/Amahara people. Why? Because it was out of this world.
Its different seeing it in person than seeing it on Google images or a Youtube video.
More importantly Wakanda is in EAST repeat EAST Africa and right near the area where the Surma people are located.
So its no surprise they would incorporate it into the movie among MANY OTHER African cultural elements as shown by Elmaestro.
No offense but people like you only want to see Africa in one light and not the other.
As for as lip plates being only for females. I don't know, but we shouldn't nit pick one thing when they are representing many African cultures especially those from East Africa.
Stop being naive. I agree the movie looks good. But that is not reason enough to ignore or make excuses for problematic elements in it. Lets not be carried away with fanboyism.
I don't think lip plating as practiced by any African culture is "barbaric" per se. I am simply using the word barbaric to describe lip-plating by a fictional character in a fictional country, in a comic book created by a White guy. I really don't see how any African culture is being helped or uplifted by taking their cultural practice out of its cultural context to push as some kind of weird or exotic prop in Hollywood. A I said, only women do lip-plating in these African cultures.
Lip-plating within the context of the cultural group which practices it is a beautiful thing, I am sure. In the hands of Hollywood, it is "barbaric" as far as I am concerned. The last Hollywood movie based in Africa was called "Beasts of No Nation", where they literally described Africans as beasts and portrayed them as such.
You know there was a time when "exotic" Africans were kept in zoos to be observed by curious Whites, right? My point is the lip-plating crap in this movie are probably just White people or a White institution carrying on with their old racist instincts in regards to Africa--portraying Africa as wild, exotic, not fully human.
The day the US stops being a racist country against Blacks is the day I will be comfortable with lip-plating being featured in any Hollywood movie. Every able-minded Black person should likewise be open-eyed.
Posts: 288 | From: Asia | Registered: Mar 2016
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posted
1. First of all no one is being naive. Especially when I seen this practice FIRST HAND. And I don't even know what my post has to do with fanboyism.
2. I agree with the lip plating only being for women. But more importantly like I said the movie is trying to incorporate many African cultural elements especially the lip plate practiced which is in East Africa where Wakanda is located. The comic book character may have been created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, but the Panther character that we associate today was developed by Priest and that is the Panther that is being used in this film. Also the director of this film is black.
3. I don't get how a practice is magically barbaric once in the hands of Hollywood. Second Beast of a Nation was directed by a white guy unlike with the Panther movie. Once again I don't get why the lip plate thing is the only thing being nit picked when its only one of the many African cultural elements thats being represented in this film.
4. Last point is a reach. A huge reach that keeps getting said online and the rest hardly has anything to do with what I posted. Again the director Ryan Coogler is BLACK. He made the film Creed which was a positive representation for blacks. And next he wants to do a movie about the Mali Empire. Once again you are only nit picking just one African cultural element in the film. The only real point you made was lip plates only being for females but we have to see when the full movie comes out.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: 1. First of all no one is being naive. Especially when I seen this practice FIRST HAND. And I don't even know what my post has to do with fanboyism.
2. I agree with the lip plating only being for women. But more importantly like I said the movie is trying to incorporate many African cultural elements especially the lip plate practiced which is in East Africa where Wakanda is located. The comic book character may have been created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, but the Panther character that we associate today was developed by Priest and that is the Panther that is being used in this film. Also the director of this film is black.
3. I don't get how a practice is magically barbaric once in the hands of Hollywood. Second Beast of a Nation was directed by a white guy unlike with the Panther movie. Once again I don't get why the lip plate thing is the only thing being nit picked when its only one of the many African cultural elements thats being represented in this film.
4. Last point is a reach. A huge reach that keeps getting said online and the rest hardly has anything to do with what I posted. Again the director Ryan Coogler is BLACK. He made the film Creed which was a positive representation for blacks. And next he wants to do a movie about the Mali Empire. Once again you are only nit picking just one African cultural element in the film. The only real point you made was lip plates only being for females but we have to see when the full movie comes out.
Stop being a fan boy.
Posts: 288 | From: Asia | Registered: Mar 2016
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Is that the only counter you can come up with? If so you shouldn't bother posting. This has nothing to do with me being a "fanboy" but instead my love for indigenous African cultural customs since I actually visited the continent and seen them first land.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: @Mansamusa
Is that the only counter you can come up with? If so you shouldn't bother posting. This has nothing to do with me being a "fanboy" but instead my love for indigenous African cultural customs since I actually visited the continent and seen them first land.
I already explained myself. You just have a problem with someone explaining what is wrong with a movie you like. This is called fanboyism. If you have been to Africa, please tell me how many African men you came across with lip-plates and modern suits.
Stop trying to pass off typical Natgeo erotic exotica images as "genuine" African culture.
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posted
I get that the lip plate thing is often associated with racist stereotypes of Africa. On the other hand there is a small number of real ethnic groups in East Africa who have that custom, even if they usually do it on women rather than men. Not everything African cultures have done is going to appear romantic to modern Westerners, as with cultures everywhere else in the world.
I would say it really comes down to how the character with the lip plate is characterized. If he is on the good guys' team, it might convince the audience that people with lip plates don't deserve to be mocked as they have been historically. But if he is a bad guy, I can see why it might seem problematic.
Anyway, I agree that the movie looks good. It and Jurassic World II are probably going to be the top two movies I'm looking forward to this year.
posted
I actually appreciate that they wanted to incorporate the lip playing and not shy away from all considered taboo. I personally was hoping to see the full spectrum of Africa from the most obscure and barbaric to the more commonplace and sophisticated. It is that mixture of sci-fi and tribalism that I was hoping they'll hit on the head, with a middle ground of civil familiarity.
...with that being said though, mansa and Tukuler do have a point. If it is that rare that a male dawn a lip gauge/plate then including it in this fashion is soo Hollywood (I love coogler n the crew but fair is fair).
But I actually don't have a problem with representation of what some westerners reffer to as "self mitigation." If it relates to actual African practice. I actually hope we see some form of scarring for example.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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posted
I'm cool with the lip plate too. Just think, the Scorpion King wore a tail. and he is white washed in movies and 'history' docs. Imagine the reaction to a black Scorpion King with a tail. I don't have that self hate gene so I'm cool with the tail, cool with the lip plate, spears and even Man Ape's barbaric mountain tribe.
I'll take it a step further. I wish those female warriors were circumcised.
Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Beyond fiction, this is fantasy. Not gonna let a lip plate transvestite travesty of culture get in the way of a good movie anymore than I'd let her wearing a dashiki steer me away from a fine AA female. And that's real life.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Fourty2Tribes:
I'll take it a step further. I wish those female warriors were circumcised.
Oh my gosh!
I'm so happy the Kikuyu, Luo, and Rundi girls I knew had both clitoris and labia minora intact. I don't know a modern woman who's got 'em would want ta lose 'em.
But yes, some hyper-traditionalist young ladies of some ethnic groups insist on clitorectomy no different than ethnic Jews do for prepucectomy. Iinm, Beta Israel circumcised male and female (not a Torah rule but of cosmic significance across much of Africa).
quote:Another important finding is that, while a Marxist/feminist interpretation is perhaps a useful way to look at the historical evolution of female circumcision, it may not be the best paradigm for eradication efforts. In urban Somali families today, men are generally the ones who are pressing for elimination or mitigation of clitoridechtomy and infibulation, while mothers, grandmothers, and traditional practitioners - who collect a fee for performing the operations - are the ones resisting change. This may be because men have had broader sexual experience and/or more time in the West. The role of African men in effecting change must not be overlooked.
nonetheless, I don't think the pg13 disney movie will make much of a reference to circumcision of any kind.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
I don't go for Marxist nothing. Lotsa good stuff in the article. The cynicism in that quote is appalling. As in all things sift the seed from the chaff.
I take it for granted an amateur Africanist already knows what traditional circumcision means to those who do it; at puberty or before marriage to remove the opposite sex analog to claim proper gender.
Same goes for many other things. Rarely does Euro speculation hit on underlying African weltanschauung. I mean why ask the natives, they're too primitive to know why they do what they do.
posted
"I'll take it a step further. I wish those female warriors were circumcised." lol!
But I have to admit. The movie trailer looks impressive. Long time coming ...from Tyler Perry. Let us wait for the story line.
was it produced by ...blacks? Director, writer etc.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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I thought it was for health reasons for males. And why do it to the females? same? Labia = Testicles and Clit=penis. But Foreskin represents? What?
"I take it for granted an amateur Africanist already knows what traditional circumcision means to those who do it; at puberty or before marriage to remove the opposite sex analog to claim proper gender.
Same goes for many other things. Rarely does Euro speculation hit on underlying African weltanschauung. I mean why ask the natives, they're too primitive to know why they do what they do. '.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
My reaction - what the hell is that guy wearing the lip disc? Shaman (mixed sex?) power thing? Never heard of it in old world, but in South America Botocudo, males did wear the lip disc I think.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: "I'll take it a step further. I wish those female warriors were circumcised." lol!
But I have to admit. The movie trailer looks impressive. Long time coming ...from Tyler Perry. Let us wait for the story line.
was it produced by ...blacks? Director, writer etc.
Black everything boss Stan lee gets credit as being the creator But blacks such as Christopher priest and Ta nehesi Coates took the character to new heights.
This movie is quite the big deal.... If shit like this can come out of a 90 second teaser trailer lmao
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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I'm so happy the Kikuyu, Luo, and Rundi girls I knew had both clitoris and labia minora intact. I don't know a modern woman who's got 'em would want ta lose 'em.
But yes, some hyper-traditionalist young ladies of some ethnic groups insist on clitorectomy no different than ethnic Jews do for prepucectomy. Iinm, Beta Israel circumcised male and female (not a Torah rule but of cosmic significance across much of Africa).
I prefer women with intact genitalia too. It bothers me that some of African America's and the melinated world's better brain trust (Jason black, BTF) are seemingly more ashamed of bowels in lips than female circumcision. I completely disagree with how it's addressed. White feminist run into an ideological and cultural roadblock. They think its something born of patriarchy when it goes back to cultures that had no concept of patriarchy. To better address it we should first acknowledge how cool lesser forms are like ritual blood letting or cosmetic surgery. Then explain how unnecessary and damaging it is in a modern cosmological context.
I wonder how or if cosmetic and cosmological are etymologically related. Rundi are Rendille?
Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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posted
Cosmetic cosmos (microcosm) Not sure if linked, but Pygmies paint their bodies with points, stars constellations etc. I don't see any ling. link though.
Ebembe(Mbuti) body paint/primp Guess: cosm Russian-Greek version of xyam: sky shine skin or of xyuam: sieve, hol(e)y mat
quote:Originally posted by Mansamusa: Whats up with the lip-plating?
Is there a problem with it?
Yeah. It looks out of place and "barbaric" as fvck. It misrepresents even the culture it copies;Only females do lip-plating. Less than 1% of cultures in Africa do that kind of thing. Looks like the kind of exotic dehumanizing stuff that a White tourist in Africa would be interested in. What the hell is it doing in a super-hero movie?
At first I thought so too, but when you think about it. He is a mad antagonizing character, an equivalent of what some mad antagonizing European or Asian individual would be.
But yeah, it's how people will receive it. Will they get that massage?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Here's a breakdown by Justin @ RedSpiritMask on youtube... he goes pretty deep into many cultural symbolism and was even able to pick up on chokwe masks in the background of a scene as well as recognize that the inscriptions in the throne room were NSibidi. Decent video, he deserves the plug.
posted
He's back at it... considering how lost a lot of people are who are seeing these references and call backs in these trailers are... I'm surprised a lot of Africans or any body with above average knowledge of the continent aren't doing these kinds of breakdowns.
posted
I've come back from the movie. As expected, it became one of my favorite Marvel movies the moment I saw it.
I did think the villain was a bit too tragic though. Don't get me wrong, he's a well-written character like all the others, but he's the kind of villain you almost feel bad for. I personally prefer bad guys who are outright loathsome, the kind you absolutely want to see get a brutal smackdown. Of course, all villains need a backstory and motivations for their evilness, but too much sympathy makes it harder to be invested against them.
posted
not gonna lie, I enjoyed the FUCK outa this movie... @Tyrannohotep feel where you're coming... I don't know to what extent you can see yourself in Killmonger, and his motivation but I think the character resonates with a lot of blacks (moreso black Americans)...He passively sends some deep messages (especially for a Disney film) to the audience. He was a very tragic figure, but tbh he was handled well IMO, and was kinda victorious if you think about it.
My biggest complain about this movie is that its a marvel(MCU) movie... Literally everything wrong with the film is in someway attributed to Disneys Superhero formula in my opinion, If this movie predated at least half of the 18 MCU films it would be seen as damn near perfect.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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posted
I actually thought BP felt much less like the traditional Marvel offering than most. For instance, your typical MCU movie makes a point of all their characters coexisting and knowing one another in the same world. That's why they're so jam-packed with character cameos and crossovers. Not so much BP.
We know from Marvel's other projects that T'Challa and Wakanda are part of this shared universe, but you couldn't tell that from this standalone. No cameos of Captain America, Tony Stark, Starlord, or anyone else in the MCU here. There was one old white dude with one line who looked and sounded suspiciously like one of the esteemed Marvel writers, but that's the first time I can recall ever seeing that guy in any other MCU movie. In this significant way, BP appeared to be a big divergence from the MCU formula.
posted
^I agree.. It is removed from the "cookie cutter formula overall, but unfolds similarly the other MCU origin stories imo... but what I noticed as well seen criticism of are things like CGI, and lack of danger/predictability. No one really believes the movie is perfect but it's everyone's favorite movie right now... It's strange.
I feel like if this movie had the same cast, Director, writers, basically everything besides the MCU brand plus some technical polish, It'll really be considered perfect.. or better than TDK atleast.
Nonetheless Definitely my favorite ComicBook movie of all time. I almost even cried like a bitch thanks to probably one of the most powerful end quotes I've heard in recent cinema.
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posted
Just came back. 10/10. Top 3 MCU film. MBJ stole the show. Best MCU villain easily.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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posted
Officially overtook Avengers as number one superhero film in domestic office!! Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
I hope enrapture with fictional Africa(ns) leads to educating up on factual Africa(ns).
Lord knows Africana needs a shot in the arm. No popular general Africana books dropping, can't just walk and pick up Robin Walker, this era's Rogers or JG Jackson type popularizer. Bookstores just about all gone. Vendors selling Urban books to survive. No college students serious Africana blogs etc.
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Boogie Spirit Black Panther Spirit It's the bad-assedest Boogie in the land
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and he is white washed in movies and 'history' docs. Imagine the reaction to a black Scorpion King with a tail. I don't have that self hate gene so I'm cool with the tail, cool with the lip plate, spears and even Man Ape's barbaric mountain tribe. 
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