To Latinos Obama is the Bait & Switch President, Deported 1 Million, Separated Countless Families Since 2009
Two and half years into the Obama presidency, some of us spend more time mooning over pretty pictures of the First Family, their beautiful kids and regal mother-in-law than we spend publicly worrying over the fates of millions of families, children and elders we personally know. Why are some of us still trying to “save” the Obama administration. When will it be time to save ourselves from endless war, climate change, joblessness and the other ravages of late predatory capitalism?
Latinos overwhelmingly voted for the First Black President. And why not? He wrapped himself in the mantle of Dr. King, made explicit promises to humanize the immigration system, and even spoke out against some of the racist scapegoating of immigrants. But that was then, as a candidate. After two and a half years as president, Obama's record marks him out as the bait-and-switch president.
In 2008, Latinos delivered a whopping two thirds of their vote to the candidate of Hope and Change, to Barack Obama, who opposed the building of border walls who spoke out against the politics of demonizing immigrants, and who promised a clear path to citizenship for millions living in the shadows. The well-funded layer of corporate and Democratic Party Latino leaders whose careers and condo payments depend on it hope to turn out a massive Latino vote for Obama in 2012. But the tide may be against them.
Despite concrete promises and lofty rhetoric the Obama administration has built and extended border walls, massively increased the numbers of workplace audits and raids at firms suspected of hiring the undocumented. President Obama has declared that states like his home Illinois can no longer opt out of the so-called Secure Communities program, and must send fingerprints and identifying data on everybody they arrest to the feds to be checked against immigration databases. The First Black President has deported an all time high of more than 1 million immigrants since taking office in 2009, and tens of thousands on any given day more await similar fates in his vast, and often privatized, network of immigration prisons and jails.
Unlike black Americans, who can still get misty-eyed at the sight of Michelle Obama and her pretty kids walking across the White House lawn to the Marine helicopter, Latinos have a much harder time fooling themselves about the fundamental nature of the Obama presidency. In that community, almost everybody has recent immigrants in the immediate family or among the in-laws, recent immigrants living downstairs or across the street, and more recent immigrants among the people they work, worship or go to school with.
“If the President continues to alienate Black & Latino voters he will lose the election, plain and simple," said Carlos Roa from Presente.org, a national online advocacy group that seeks to empower Latinos nationwide. " He cannot expect Latino voters and an entire community to simply stand by and watch...” The threat is not an idle one. Can corporate funded and Democratic Party Latino leaders bring out a huge vote for Obama a second time, despite his abominable record on immigration? I wouldn't bet on it. Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
Despite concrete promises and lofty rhetoric the Obama administration has built and extended border walls, massively increased the numbers of workplace audits and raids at firms suspected of hiring the undocumented. President Obama has declared that states like his home Illinois can no longer opt out of the so-called Secure Communities program, and must send fingerprints and identifying data on everybody they arrest to the feds to be checked against immigration databases. The First Black President has deported an all time high of more than 1 million immigrants since taking office in 2009, and tens of thousands on any given day more await similar fates in his vast, and often privatized, network of immigration prisons and jails.
The article is short on facts. How does the amount of deportations under Obama for example compare to that under Clinton, or Bush II?
Can corporate funded and Democratic Party Latino leaders bring out a huge vote for Obama a second time, despite his abominable record on immigration? I wouldn't bet on it.
Where else will Hispanics go in 2012? Tea Party?
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
^ Zarahan
Neither Bush or Clinton will be running for re-election in 2012, so the question has no bearing. The article does state that Obama's admin has set a record, so this does imply the number is > Bush.
Who will blacks and Hispanics cast their votes in 2012? Too early to tell. Personally, now that the hype of Obama has been uncovered, I think the Green party will do much better than in 2008.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Obama is a cunt. His only purpose is to serve as a distraction. Where will Hispanics go? They and other disappointed minorities will simply not vote in the next election.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
^ You are 100% correct!!
As I predicted in 2007, Obama was only meant as a fell good buffer following Bush's demolition of the US economy. The political planners have this trickster stuff down to a science. They played Negroes and liberal whites like a fiddle at a KKK convention. Obama came in appealing to Negroes with his MLK nonsense, and liberal whites with Lincoln. But it's plain as day who he really imitates is Ronald Reagan, and the greatest Republican masquerading as a Democrat, Bill Clinton.
Obama has absolutely no connection to the black community, Africa, or justice.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
"After a U.S. Navy SEAL put a bullet in Osama bin Laden’s chest and another in his head, one of the most secretive black-ops units in the American military suddenly found its mission in the public spotlight. It was atypical. While it’s well known that U.S. Special Operations forces are deployed in the war zones of Afghanistan and Iraq, and it’s increasingly apparent that such units operate in murkier conflict zones like Yemen and Somalia, the full extent of their worldwide war has remained deeply in the shadows.
Last year, Karen DeYoung and Greg Jaffe of the Washington Post reported that U.S. Special Operations forces were deployed in 75 countries, up from 60 at the end of the Bush presidency."
Im def. voting for the Green PArty, I hope they can get more Black and Hispanic votes..
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: ^ Zarahan
Neither Bush or Clinton will be running for re-election in 2012, so the question has no bearing. The article does state that Obama's admin has set a record, so this does imply the number is > Bush.
Who will blacks and Hispanics cast their votes in 2012? Too early to tell. Personally, now that the hype of Obama has been uncovered, I think the Green party will do much better than in 2008.
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Just think, if Obama loses the election, and he might, then you guys can go back to picking on white boys. Yeah, pack as many conservatives on the plate as possible and deny a lot of folks some decency in their lives.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Who in the Green Party that's viable?? I really don't want Obama but I definitely don't want Rick Perry,Bachmann,Cain or Rumney,that would be disastrous, Ron Paul maybe!! and the 3th estate called the media doesn't help.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Your fears are irrational. Theres not a dime's worth of difference between Obama and them. Ron Paul yes, but not the rest.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Anguish Your fears are irrational. Theres not a dime's worth of difference between Obama and them. Ron Paul yes, but not the rest. Only because I want a horse that can actually win if you could vote in the American elections who on the Green Party would back? and Ron Paul haven't switched yet.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Just think, if Obama loses the election, and he might, then you guys can go back to picking on white boys. Yeah, pack as many conservatives on the plate as possible and deny a lot of folks some decency in their lives.
Republicans are not scheduled to get back into office until 2016/20, so it doesn't matter if you cast your vote for Obama or not. He's still going to win.
The trick both parties play is to keep people divided between the two, so they use FEAR to accomplish that task as they did in 2008. The FEAR component is what forced white cross-over voters to vote Democrat rather than Republican as they did when they voted Bush into office. FEAR was not needed to get blacks to turn out in massive numbers for Obama. Simply the promise of meaningless symbolism accomplished that.
It should be painfully obvious for America's poor and middle class that both parties are assaulting them no matter which candidate is in office.
President Barack Obama: Threw his own Pastor under the bus
The only real solutions to the trap Americans find themselves caught by the ankle are;
1) Have a revolution (Not likely. This is why Cuba is under embargo, to not leak revolutionary thought to sleeping Americans. Especially, black Americans)
2) Force Massive and radical reform by force (See above)
3) Provide massive support for a third or even fourth political party (Possible in long term)
These solutions are listed in their order of effectiveness, and also, the most difficult to the least difficult.
I believe that Cynthia McKinney will once again receive the Green party nomination. I like Ms. McKinney because;
1) Jews hate her, so she must be doing something right
2) She has integrity and I'd like to hope, not easily compromised by bribe
3) She is very experienced in the political arena, and well connected internationally
4) She REALLY IS black (unlike Obama), and completely understands black issues and proposed solutions
I don't expect her to even come close to winning the 2012 election, but I would hope enough blacks/Latinos provide enough support to gain 5% of the vote which would enable the Green party to receive Federal funding for the 2016 election. If they succeed in doing this, they could very well gain adequate momentum to have a strong showing in 2016.
The least this would accomplish is to sent a message to both Republican and Democrats that black/Latino voters have grow in sophistication, and will no longer fall for the same ole BS!
The ideal outcome would be to overthrow both parties and actually get a Green candidate in the white house. Either way both solutions provide a win/win for Black/Latino voters/citizens.
The key to their success is to educate black/latino voters to expand their awareness to think in long versus short term progress. While also organizing black/Latino voters into a contiguous voting blocks versus the random, emotional reactionary decision path they are accustomed to. A consolidated Black/Latino voting block could be in the long term, as effective, and as powerful as AIPAC, and that's exactly what whites/Jews are afraid of.
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
Co-Sign Brada Im suprised you cant see that Obama is a Regeanite Republican/Conservative...Ron Paul on the other hand is different.
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Your fears are irrational. Theres not a dime's worth of difference between Obama and them. Ron Paul yes, but not the rest.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Co-Sign Brada Im suprised you cant see that Obama is a Regeanite Republican/Conservative...Ron Paul on the other hand is different.
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Your fears are irrational. Theres not a dime's worth of difference between Obama and them. Ron Paul yes, but not the rest.
I like SOME of the changes Ron Paul has stated he'd support, like;
-Eliminating the FED (I doubt he can do this) -Eliminating worthless paper currency and replacing with VALUE based currency (I doubt he could do this) -Eliminating Welfare to Israel (I doubt he could do this)
As I stated above, I strongly doubt that any US President could eliminate the FED. The only President who tried was Kennedy, and shortly after introducing the legislation, he was shot dead.
If Paul could accomplish even one of the above, it would change America's dependence on Ponzi schemes, as well as anger the world's elite who are profit-sharing partners in the FED monopoly.
Other ideologies Paul stands for, I'm not with. Such as;
-Eliminating government social support programs for the poor. -Eliminating key regulations to control corporations -Eliminating the EPA (Has not stated what would be it's replacement to protect consumers/environment) -Eliminating the DoE (Has not stated what would replace it) -Eliminating government discrimination oversight (Return to discriminating by whites. For example, a white bar or shopping center would be able to state without repercussions, that they do not allow/serve black customers)
There are very strong rumors that Paul is hooked up with the Texas White conservatives and klan. He doesn't show it, but his son does
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
^^^^ I agree 100%, I don't agree with everything Ron Paul advocates but you outlined the basics. Another thing I like that he supports is the Elimination of the War on Drugs, the Elimination of Israeli Welfare, Elimination of the Fed. etc.
I also don't understand why he wants to Eliminate the DOE...Also his ideas to allow whites to not serve blacks etc. is something I also don't agree with.
I have heard that a Newletter by Ron Paul attack black people racially but I don't think he had anything to do with that.
Rand Paul is just another Mealy mouth Tea Bagger...
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
I am asking again because I see little movement from the Greens...who in the Green is viable for 2011 or even 2016? the gutting of Acorn was a shame as it took mass organizational capabilities from Urban and primarily Black and Hispanic communities imagine if they were still in place and decide to make a switch to the Greens or some other party now everything needs to go back to the drawing board and all this happen under the watch of the nation's 1st Blk P.O.T.U.S
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
^ I'll repeat, my guess is that Cynthia McKenny and Rosa Clemente will likely get the Green Party nomination again.
The issue isn't exactly who will be running, but how to educate Black/Hispanic voters that it's in their best long term interest to consolidating their votes, moving away from voting Democrat/Republican, and resist the urge in seeking short term gratification by voting for the lessor of two evils, which has always been the case with Democratic and Republican candidate choices.
Cynthia McKenny Speaks To Hispanic/Latino Voters
May Day, Los Angeles, California
Two centuries ago, the United States, Latin America, and Haiti were joined in the struggle for dignity and freedom. In 1779, when a fledgling United States was fighting for its independence, a unit of Haitian volunteers answered the call and fought alongside George Washington in the Battle of Savannah.
When Haiti threw off imperial domination, it helped Latin America to become free. In fact, Simon Bolivar received supplies from Haiti for his victorious war over Spanish imperialism while Venezuela's first tri-color flag was unfurled on Haitian soil. Enslaved Africans in the United States fled to freedom in Haiti--and also to Mexico.
Black people and the diverse peoples of Latin America share a bond of blood and the struggle for freedom. Whether we are children of Bolivar or the children of la negra Hipolita, we are one.
However, a few cynical, greedy, amoral people who do not share our values but who have a whole lot of power, want to divide and exploit us for their own selfish gain.
We should never forget that Jesse Helms won reelection to the Senate on a notorious TV spot that pitted white workers against black workers. This tactic has always been used to keep labor divided.
We won't let it happen!
Slavery was abolished in this country in 1865. We won't go back!
200 million people worldwide should not be forced to leave their families behind and head for developed countries because there are no decent jobs at home.
Parents and children should not be separated because of global forces that workers don't understand, but must respond to.
I.C.E. agents shouldn't be picking up people on the streets and holding them incommunicado as if this horrible global assault on human dignity was caused by them.
Our country can do better than this.
U.S. policy should uplift workers abroad and at home. We should demand fairness for labor and respect for the environment in all of our trade agreements.
U.S. corporations must be held accountable wherever they might operate in the world. We must demand a living wage. There must not be any race to the bottom.
By now, the new Congress should have repealed the Patriot Act, the Military Tribunals Act, the Secret Evidence Act, and George Bush's tax cuts. They should have ensured the right of return for all Katrina survivors; cut off all funding for George Bush's wars; and they should have impeached Condi, Dick, and George by now!
Sadly, the Democrats were too quiet on the theft of two Presidential elections, too quiet on the lies of September 11th; too quiet on the neocons misleading us into the Iraq War; and now they are too quiet on the carnage in Somalia and the possibility of using nukes in Iran.
After his shocking incompetence during Hurricane Katrina, why is Michael Chertoff still Secretary of Homeland Security?
Leaders in Washington, DC can change our disastrous military, economic, and foreign policies that contribute to the shape our country and world are in. What they do depends on us.
Between Democrats and Republicans in the corridors of power, the fix is in. Now is not the time to be quiet. We will not be quiet. We will not back down. We will not be divided! Our voices will be heard!
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Co-Sign Brada Im suprised you cant see that Obama is a Regeanite Republican/Conservative...Ron Paul on the other hand is different.
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Your fears are irrational. Theres not a dime's worth of difference between Obama and them. Ron Paul yes, but not the rest.
Ron Paul is reformed KKK in suits.
Posted by Arwa (Member # 11172) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Ron Paul is reformed KKK in suits.
Agree.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
I would ask you to back up this statement with empirical facts but I know your ability.
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
Obama is reformed KKK in black face.
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Co-Sign Brada Im suprised you cant see that Obama is a Regeanite Republican/Conservative...Ron Paul on the other hand is different.
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Your fears are irrational. Theres not a dime's worth of difference between Obama and them. Ron Paul yes, but not the rest.
Ron Paul is reformed KKK in suits.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
History has shown that any political body, over time becomes contaminated. This is especially true in today's climate of corporate dominance and a world controlled by empire.
The only available solution to this repetitious reality of human nature is to periodically purge the old, and rebuild with an evolved and more humane new.
If we take note of the ever evolving military complex of various so-called Super-Powers, the shift from defensive military build-up, to an Offensive build-up designed to acquire resources, to the present Surveillance based Urban containment build-up, is apparent.
The current wars being fought across the globe are no longer nation against nation, but rather Empire against national & world citizens. The "enemy" of today are no longer identified by national flag or military uniform, but by social/political dogma. The enemy is no longer "them", but refocused to "Us".
Interpretation of this military shift can only be viewed as an evolving containment strategy to identify and eliminate those world citizens who challenge empire. To accomplish this goal, new technologies are being developed or improved such as;
-Large Scale Computer modeling for Prediction of Cause & Effect of citizen Reaction(s) (DoD, Darpa)
-Global surveillance using; *Spy drones, *Wall penetrating radars, *Massive deployment of security cameras *Facial Identification *Individual Internet Tracking using deep packet scanning *Long range surveillance using satellites *Telephone (Cellular), email, social network tracking *Embedded Sleeper spies *DNA identification/tracking of individuals
-Ethnic Specific Biological Weapons -Massive Prison Complexes, non-military -Urban Warfare & containment technologies -Individual citizen monitoring and financial isolation -Individual National & International travel monitoring
Wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, and Iran are being used to field test and improve these various citizen containment technologies which are not being funded by corporate funding, but by Tax dollars.
9/11 served as the cover to prioritize and place emphasis on the development of these containment technologies.
Realizing these truths, what are the solutions and options to world citizens who seek freedom versus becoming virtual slaves to the small group of world controlling oligarchs?
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: I am asking again because I see little movement from the Greens...who in the Green is viable for 2011 or even 2016? the gutting of Acorn was a shame as it took mass organizational capabilities from Urban and primarily Black and Hispanic communities imagine if they were still in place and decide to make a switch to the Greens or some other party now everything needs to go back to the drawing board and all this happen under the watch of the nation's 1st Blk P.O.T.U.S
BTW, who do you think he was named after? Tip, a woman called Ayn.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
That's ridiculous... I'm white and a woman and I'm disappointed with Obama. In fact I am strongly considering a write-in candidate.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: History has shown that any political body, over time becomes contaminated. This is especially true in today's climate of corporate dominance and a world controlled by empire.
The only available solution to this repetitious reality of human nature is to periodically purge the old, and rebuild with an evolved and more humane new.
If we take note of the ever evolving military complex of various so-called Super-Powers, the shift from defensive military build-up, to an Offensive build-up designed to acquire resources, to the present Surveillance based Urban containment build-up, is apparent.
The current wars being fought across the globe are no longer nation against nation, but rather Empire against national & world citizens. The "enemy" of today are no longer identified by national flag or military uniform, but by social/political dogma. The enemy is no longer "them", but refocused to "Us".
Interpretation of this military shift can only be viewed as an evolving containment strategy to identify and eliminate those world citizens who challenge empire. To accomplish this goal, new technologies are being developed or improved such as;
-Large Scale Computer modeling for Prediction of Cause & Effect of citizen Reaction(s) (DoD, Darpa)
-Global surveillance using; *Spy drones, *Wall penetrating radars, *Massive deployment of security cameras *Facial Identification *Individual Internet Tracking using deep packet scanning *Long range surveillance using satellites *Telephone (Cellular), email, social network tracking *Embedded Sleeper spies *DNA identification/tracking of individuals
-Ethnic Specific Biological Weapons -Massive Prison Complexes, non-military -Urban Warfare & containment technologies -Individual citizen monitoring and financial isolation -Individual National & International travel monitoring
Wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, and Iran are being used to field test and improve these various citizen containment technologies which are not being funded by corporate funding, but by Tax dollars.
9/11 served as the cover to prioritize and place emphasis on the development of these containment technologies.
Realizing these truths, what are the solutions and options to world citizens who seek freedom versus becoming virtual slaves to the small group of world controlling oligarchs?
Your brilliant MK.
i phones and such.... facebook... possibly immunizations...Microchip Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
BTW, who do you think he was named after? Tip, a woman called Ayn.
see what i mean.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: That's ridiculous... I'm white and a woman and I'm disappointed with Obama. In fact I am strongly considering a write-in candidate.
Hi Gold
Of course you understand the topic title does not actually imply an absolute, but rather a dominate majority.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Thanks for the links Jeri
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: Your brilliant MK.
i phones and such.... facebook... possibly immunizations...Microchip
No Gold, it is you who is Brilliant.
Yep, the Microchip idea, National ID, Social networks, corner traffic monitors and medical monitoring can all be used as surveillance tools. There is no such thing as Freedom in America.
Posted by Arwa (Member # 11172) on :
You are good at one thing. Never admitting your defeat.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
Arwa, Long time no see. How have you been?
I'm assuming your comment is directed to Brada?
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
D Oro:
''That's ridiculous... I'm white and a woman and I'm disappointed with Obama.''
What is it that Obama promised you? A promise you actually knew he could keep?
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Melaninking:
''There is no such thing as Freedom in America.''
Yes there is. All one has to do is abide by the rules set down for you. Now if one has a job where they have to wear a white shirt and tie to work, in business of course, then yes they probably will be spied on because they are trying to out-con those who made the rules. So the rulemakers have more money at their disposal so they set the attitude for microchips and national ID. Bottomline: go fishing, play basketball, tennis. Anything. Just stay out of the way.
Social networks:
as long as you have kids and some adults who have kiddie tendencies themselves, and have some weird idea of having to connect and talk about their personal affairs then yes they will be caught up in the stuff too. They'll be easy to locate because they can't shut their mouths.
Traffic monitors: but aren't these devices used to manage traffic? On the other hand I suppose a bank robber wouldn't like the idea of a traffic light-turned-surveillance equipment.
Medical monitoring: Some old geezer at 80 plus who has a pacemaker needs to be monitored? But he's already being monitored. I'm guessing he would have enough sense stay away from powerful electrical equipment.
Back in my day when I was about 25 it was said don't trust anyone over 30. That probably still holds true for most of those on this website; see 2nd comment above. Actually you can't trust teenagers either.
Moral of the story (if it isn't obvious by now): If you can't control your impulses to run afoul of those who really know how to run afoul then accept what you got comin'.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Melaninking:
''There is no such thing as Freedom in America.''
Yes there is. All one has to do is abide by the rules set down for you. Now if one has a job where they have to wear a white shirt and tie to work, in business of course, then yes they probably will be spied on because they are trying to out-con those who made the rules. So the rulemakers have more money at their disposal so they set the attitude for microchips and national ID. Bottomline: go fishing, play basketball, tennis. Anything. Just stay out of the way.
Social networks:
as long as you have kids and some adults who have kiddie tendencies themselves, and have some weird idea of having to connect and talk about their personal affairs then yes they will be caught up in the stuff too. They'll be easy to locate because they can't shut their mouths.
Traffic monitors: but aren't these devices used to manage traffic? On the other hand I suppose a bank robber wouldn't like the idea of a traffic light-turned-surveillance equipment.
Medical monitoring: Some old geezer at 80 plus who has a pacemaker needs to be monitored? But he's already being monitored. I'm guessing he would have enough sense stay away from powerful electrical equipment.
Back in my day when I was about 25 it was said don't trust anyone over 30. That probably still holds true for most of those on this website; see 2nd comment above. Actually you can't trust teenagers either.
Moral of the story (if it isn't obvious by now): If you can't control your impulses to run afoul of those who really know how to run afoul then accept what you got comin'.
Grumman, This is naive in so many ways, I hesitate to even begin.
Rules: It's no secret that America has always had two sets of rules. One for whites/Jews, and another set for people of color. Which set of these rules did you have in mind? Today, US law, is no longer based on Common law, but Laws based on Commercial Code, which is Corporate Law. This means that a Man-Made thing such as a Corporation can be greater than Man. For a Christian nation to take this route is a severe contradiction When you step into a court room, there will be a flag displayed there. It looks like an American flag, but on careful inspection something is amiss. Aren't the maritime colors displayed on the flag; Red, White, Blue, and Gold? What is wrong with this picture?
Stay Out Of The Way?
Go fishing, play basketball? Are you implying that people of color should avoid doing business nationally or internationally? To travel, one needs a passport. Passports are micro chipped.
Stay out of the way? Is that your idea of freedom, or is it freedom with limits?
Networks We're back to the issue of Freedom again. Isn't citizen surveillance one of the injustices the USA accused communist Russia, China, and Cuba of? Isn't this a blatant violation of the US constitution, and the Bill Of Rights?
Traffic monitoring Since this implementation is funded by tax payer dollars while the proceeds from violations is given to private concerns such as Lockheed Martin, isn't this a violation of the constitution which states that no government local or national may profit from it's citizens? It's very apparent, especially today where cities and states are revenue deficient that these traffic monitor violations and fines have been kicked up in overtime to generate additional revenue for Cities and States using border line legal tactics which would have been thrown out of court prior to their implementation.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: D Oro:
''That's ridiculous... I'm white and a woman and I'm disappointed with Obama.''
What is it that Obama promised you? A promise you actually knew he could keep?
Question back at you.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: D Oro:
''That's ridiculous... I'm white and a woman and I'm disappointed with Obama.''
What is it that Obama promised you? A promise you actually knew he could keep?
He promised change.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing:
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: Your brilliant MK.
i phones and such.... facebook... possibly immunizations...Microchip
No Gold, it is you who is Brilliant.
Yep, the Microchip idea, National ID, Social networks, corner traffic monitors and medical monitoring can all be used as surveillance tools. There is no such thing as Freedom in America.
Oh come on MK don't be so pessimistic.... We are the land of the Free.
"America is a comparatively tough place, which puts a strong emphasis on individual responsibility," Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
^ I'm an optimist Gold, but a calculating realist also.
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Anguishofbeing:
Are you suggesting you had your crumpled hat in your hands when you stood in front of Obama when you say ''Question back at you.''?
D oro, so your expectations were unrealistic weren't they.
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Melaninking:
Rules: ''It's no secret that America has always had two sets of rules. One for whites/Jews, and another set for people of color. Which set of these rules did you have in mind?
Neither of the two groups. If one runs afoul of the ''rules'' then it doesn't matter the color.
''Today, US law, is no longer based on Common law, but Laws based on Commercial Code, which is Corporate Law. This means that a Man-Made thing such as a Corporation can be greater than Man.''
I believe that's the issue. Don't transgress and you won't get into any trouble.
''For a [Christian] nation to take this route is a severe contradiction. When you step into a court room, there will be a flag displayed there. It looks like an American flag, but on careful inspection something is amiss. Aren't the maritime colors displayed on the flag; Red, White, Blue, and Gold? What is wrong with this picture?''
How can anything be wrong with this picture when you said corporations run the outfit? And America as a Christian nation? Some scholars say yes, others no; they both lay claim to some founders' comments, or so I've read in the newspaper. Which scholar wins this one?
''Are you implying that people of color should avoid doing business nationally or internationally?
Not at all. But they are expected to play by the rules. If they are naive then they won't get anywhere.
''To travel, one needs a passport. Passports are micro chipped.''
If humans didn't commit mayhem there would be no need for microchips. But that is an unrealistic expectation isn't it. Matter of fact it's naive isn't it.
''Stay out of the way? Is that your idea of freedom, or is it freedom with limits?''
All freedom has limits placed by those who set the rules. If you can be part of the rules game then play. If not, well, then, don't play.
''We're back to the issue of Freedom again. Isn't citizen surveillance one of the injustices the USA accused communist Russia, China, and Cuba of?''
You will recall the U.S. thinks everyone should have that freedom that resides in ''everyone's''? bosom. Other countries beg to differ. So yes the U.S. accused those countries of injustices for personal gain. It may have had something to do with money, i.e., I wish these guys, Russia in particular would let their citizens alone because it costs too much money for the U.S. to stay ahead in the arms race.
''Isn't this a blatant violation of the US constitution, and the Bill Of Rights?''
As you know it may have something to do with the interested scholars' interpretation.
Traffic monitoring
''Since this implementation is funded by tax payer dollars while the proceeds from violations is given to private concerns such as Lockheed Martin, isn't this a violation of the constitution which states that no government local or national may profit from it's citizens?''
I'm hard pressed to accept by definition all proceeds go to Lockheed Martin. If Lockheed Martin made or leased the monitoring devices then yes they should expect payment of some kind from the local government who requested them. What percentage of the proceeds from violations obviously will be determined between the two parties.
''It's very apparent, especially today where cities and states are revenue deficient that these traffic monitor violations and fines have been kicked up in overtime to generate additional revenue for Cities and States using border line legal tactics which would have been thrown out of court prior to their implementation.''
We had a similar issue with the devices in my city. The local courts sided with the city saying it violated no constitutional rights to place the devices in a school zone where motorists routinely ignore the 20 mph signs and in particular the flashing lights.
Here's a question for you. Outside a school zone, is it unconstitutional to place a speed monitoring device in areas where the speed limit is clearly marked? Does it matter if the city is experiencing economic difficulties? If the city *isn't* experiencing dollar problems does it violate someone's rights if the city posts a monitoring device?
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Anguishofbeing:
Are you suggesting you had your crumpled hat in your hands when you stood in front of Obama when you say ''Question back at you.''?
D oro, so your expectations were unrealistic weren't they.
Maybe in this world today my expectations are not realistic.... but they are correct and honest.
Do what you say you will do... Be who you say you are.
A friend told me to watch this... I haven't finished yet but what I have watched I agree with. It is valid to post for this conversation.
I sense that the Democrats and Republicans are on the same team playing good cop bad cop. I voted for what I saw to be the good cop.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Melaninking:
Rules: ''It's no secret that America has always had two sets of rules. One for whites/Jews, and another set for people of color. Which set of these rules did you have in mind?
Neither of the two groups. If one runs afoul of the ''rules'' then it doesn't matter the color.
''Today, US law, is no longer based on Common law, but Laws based on Commercial Code, which is Corporate Law. This means that a Man-Made thing such as a Corporation can be greater than Man.''
I believe that's the issue. Don't transgress and you won't get into any trouble.
''For a [Christian] nation to take this route is a severe contradiction. When you step into a court room, there will be a flag displayed there. It looks like an American flag, but on careful inspection something is amiss. Aren't the maritime colors displayed on the flag; Red, White, Blue, and Gold? What is wrong with this picture?''
How can anything be wrong with this picture when you said corporations run the outfit? And America as a Christian nation? Some scholars say yes, others no; they both lay claim to some founders' comments, or so I've read in the newspaper. Which scholar wins this one?
''Are you implying that people of color should avoid doing business nationally or internationally?
Not at all. But they are expected to play by the rules. If they are naive then they won't get anywhere.
''To travel, one needs a passport. Passports are micro chipped.''
If humans didn't commit mayhem there would be no need for microchips. But that is an unrealistic expectation isn't it. Matter of fact it's naive isn't it.
''Stay out of the way? Is that your idea of freedom, or is it freedom with limits?''
All freedom has limits placed by those who set the rules. If you can be part of the rules game then play. If not, well, then, don't play.
''We're back to the issue of Freedom again. Isn't citizen surveillance one of the injustices the USA accused communist Russia, China, and Cuba of?''
You will recall the U.S. thinks everyone should have that freedom that resides in ''everyone's''? bosom. Other countries beg to differ. So yes the U.S. accused those countries of injustices for personal gain. It may have had something to do with money, i.e., I wish these guys, Russia in particular would let their citizens alone because it costs too much money for the U.S. to stay ahead in the arms race.
''Isn't this a blatant violation of the US constitution, and the Bill Of Rights?''
As you know it may have something to do with the interested scholars' interpretation.
Traffic monitoring
''Since this implementation is funded by tax payer dollars while the proceeds from violations is given to private concerns such as Lockheed Martin, isn't this a violation of the constitution which states that no government local or national may profit from it's citizens?''
I'm hard pressed to accept by definition all proceeds go to Lockheed Martin. If Lockheed Martin made or leased the monitoring devices then yes they should expect payment of some kind from the local government who requested them. What percentage of the proceeds from violations obviously will be determined between the two parties.
''It's very apparent, especially today where cities and states are revenue deficient that these traffic monitor violations and fines have been kicked up in overtime to generate additional revenue for Cities and States using border line legal tactics which would have been thrown out of court prior to their implementation.''
We had a similar issue with the devices in my city. The local courts sided with the city saying it violated no constitutional rights to place the devices in a school zone where motorists routinely ignore the 20 mph signs and in particular the flashing lights.
Here's a question for you. Outside a school zone, is it unconstitutional to place a speed monitoring device in areas where the speed limit is clearly marked? Does it matter if the city is experiencing economic difficulties? If the city *isn't* experiencing dollar problems does it violate someone's rights if the city posts a monitoring device?
Grumman
Let's be clear that when we are discussing "rules" what we are really discussing are "Laws".
What is the purpose of making Laws? Of course, Laws are meant to protect the people. When does a law become invalid? A law becomes invalid when it fails to protect citizens, and even proves to be harmful to same.
To obey laws which fail to protect, or have unquestionably proven to be harmful, is an abuse of the system, as well as a failure of it's citizens to exercise their sovereign rights. This is exactly when a country becomes a captive environment, versus The Land Of The Free.
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
Whites are the majority of Americans and women are half of all races. So basically you are saying that everyone loves Obama except black men (who are not known for liking anyone) and brown illegal immigrants. Obama's former pastor was a racist religious bigot, from what I hear, exactly the type of person who belongs under a bus), whereas Obama seems to be a humanist rationalist, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was an atheist on the quiet.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
Your calling Rev. Wright a racist is akin to Bernard Madoff's son calling someone else a crook. LMBAO!!!
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Anguishofbeing:
Are you suggesting you had your crumpled hat in your hands when you stood in front of Obama when you say ''Question back at you.''?
I have no idea what you are trying to say and I think thats a good thing. Gramps, did you vote for Obama and why? I think I asked you this before, dont remember your answer.
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Anguishofbeing says:
''I have no idea what you are trying to say and I think thats a good thing. Gramps, did you vote for Obama and why? I think I asked you this before, dont remember your answer.''
If you have no idea of what a response might be then why did you bother to ask ''back at you?''
And here we go yet another time (probably about three by now). I voted for Obama for two reasons: I figured he couldn't screw it up any worse than the white boys. And he is black. (Of course Melaninking will take issue with that part.) No promises, no idealism at all. Plain and simple. Now what I do recall asking you a few weeks ago is what specifically you didn't or don't like about Obama. You didn't answer then because I don't think you know. If you are a U.S. citizen and you voted for him and became disillushioned then you had unrealistic expectations, which shows your immaturity. If you didn't vote for him then what's your problem; you're home free. All that remains for you to do is pray with your anguished friends at Dasein and hope they answer your prayers in 2012--at which time the bashing of the white guys will start all over again.
Two hundred years is a long time to not have all the answers ain't it.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:If you have no idea of what a response might be then why did you bother to ask ''back at you?''
So because I had no idea you would reply while on your meds I shouldn't bother to ask you questions? lol
quote:what specifically you didn't or don't like about Obama.
He screwed up even more than the white boys.
quote:then you had unrealistic expectations, which shows your immaturity.
believing in holocau$t fairy-tales shows your immaturity. But then again, I think you no longer believe it thanks to me.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
The problem is the lack of political understanding from the 90% of blacks who voted from Obama. They fail to understand that this is a political process and cast their vote for the candidate that will best represent them. They fail to understand that Obama is not only a politician, but a lawyer. Therefore, voters cannot assume that their candidate will actually represent them after elected. Voters must meet with their prospective candidate Pre-election to firmly relay the message to the candidate outlining and detailing their Post election expectations they expect in exchange for their vote.
For many blacks the hope of a black President superseded their common sense, because if the first black President is impotent and ineffective, it greatly harms the future for having a second black President.
In the 2008 election, blacks should have learned the lesson; Don't vote for a candidate based on skin color. Ensure they you, like other voting blocs, set expectations for your vote.
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Anguishofbeing:
''He screwed up even more than the white boys.''
You know as well as I do the opposing side can rebutt that comment.
''believing in holocau$t fairy-tales shows your immaturity. But then again, I think you no longer believe it thanks to me.''
You should recall I told you about a year or so ago the revisionists figures from the middle 70s and that was enough to make me pause. Why did you forget this? Other than the inflated figures a holocaust of some kind did happen.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Oh please gramps, the econ is more fuked up and he's just doing more of the same (pandering to war mongering elites) which only translates into more suffering for working people. Now he has a war all of his own, siding with Islamists, the very group he uses as an excuse to justify occupation of two countries and spending of billions of $$$ each month! Can you even begin to make sense of that?!
quote:You should recall I told you about a year or so ago the revisionists figures from the middle 70s and that was enough to make me pause. Why did you forget this? Other than the inflated figures a holocaust of some kind did happen.
Figures, gas chambers, annihilation order all fairytales. I guess you still believe. I was wrong. Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Melaninking:
''The problem is the lack of political understanding from the 90% of blacks who voted from Obama. They fail to understand that this is a political process and cast their vote for the candidate that will best represent them. They fail to understand that Obama is not only a politician, but a lawyer.''
Well I wouldn't say 90% of the blacks don't have the political understanding. That statement seems to me a brushoff of the common black person. I'm not prepared to say that. But I'm certain they understand the jokes about lawyers and politicians so they simply cast that aside during election time.
''For many blacks the hope of a black President superseded their common sense, because if the first black President is impotent and ineffective, it greatly harms the future for having a second black President.''
Well if those Blacks suspended their common sense then they placed themselves in the category of unrealistic expectations. I'm sure for some that did in fact happen. But I do think that will be a tiny percentage.
''Therefore, voters cannot assume that their candidate will actually represent them after elected. Voters must meet with their prospective candidate Pre-election to firmly relay the message to the candidate outlining and detailing their Post election expectations they expect in exchange for their vote.''
The vast majority of voters can't possibly interact on a personal level with their candidate. It's logistically impossible. The only way a voter can be assured a candidate will represent them pre election is based solely on trust nothing else. What the candidate does post election has nothing to do with the voter. They voted him in office--on trust, their trust. Is it possible some actually thought Obama was a messiah of some sort. Maybe, maybe not.
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Anguishofbeing says:
''Oh please gramps, the econ is more fuked up and he's just doing more of the same (pandering to war mongering elites) which only translates into more suffering for working people. Now he has a war all of his own, siding with Islamists, the very group he uses as an excuse to justify occupation of two countries and spending of billions of $$$ each month! Can you even begin to make sense of that?!''
No I can't... and won't try either. He ought to man up and say to the generals and politicians eff Iraq and Afghanistan. Considering the news reports on the corruption in both those places, especially Afghanistan I would leave that country to those bearded m....fukas.
Can you be more specifc in your understanding of him ''siding with Islamists?'' I'm sure you didn't think at the very outset of Libya's troubles that Islamists to some degree wouldn't be represented in this mess?
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Well if those Blacks suspended their common sense then they placed themselves in the category of unrealistic expectations. I'm sure for some that did in fact happen. But I do think that will be a tiny percentage.
Seeing that blacks, as a voting bloc, asked for nothing for their vote, and as a direct result, received nothing for their vote, that is sufficient evidence that the 90% who cast their votes for Obama held absolutely zero expectations.
That a voting bloc would cast their vote at a 90% rate only confirms my first assessment that the majority of blacks fail miserably in understanding the electoral process of give and take. Else, why would any sane person/group give a lawyer/politician something for nothing.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:No I can't... and won't try either.
Actually gramps, its not that hard to figure out if you really think about it. The wars in Afghan and Iraq were never about Islamism, just as WW2 wasnt about Hitler. You and your kind always get suckered into official propaganda. Like that white guy that gave up a multimillion dollar contract in football to die for Bush and Co. thinking he was "serving" his country. lol
As for corruption, its not like the US isn't corrupt herself. In fact she needs corrupt bearded MFs to front for her occupation. You still dont get it do you old man? All your life and you still dont know how the game is played. The US has been hooked on corrupt third world MFs ever since Mobutu and before.
quote: Can you be more specifc in your understanding of him ''siding with Islamists?''
Like how? Actual communications and receipts for guns and ammo? lol
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Anguishofbeing:
''Actually gramps, its not that hard to figure out if you really think about it. The wars in Afghan and Iraq were never about Islamism''
I say Afghanistan was about revenge, not Islamism. They wouldn't give up Benny boy. What say you?
''just as WW2 wasnt about Hitler.''
Did the Bilderbergers start that war? I'm lost, Help me out.
''You and your kind always get suckered into official propaganda. Like that white guy that gave up a multimillion dollar contract in football to die for Bush and Co. thinking he was "serving" his country. lol''
I agree Tillman appeared to be an idealist. Or maybe he was a closet Arab hater and it had nothing to do with being suckered? Since this could be the case then do you think it at all possible Tillman suckered you into believing he was? Well of course you wouldn't admit to it. Just thought I would mention that oversight to you.
''As for corruption, its not like the US isn't corrupt herself. In fact she needs corrupt bearded MFs to front for her occupation. You still dont get it do you old man? All your life and you still dont know how the game is played. The US has been hooked on corrupt third world MFs ever since Mobutu and before.
...and you conveniently forgot that your bolded words are mine and I used them against you awhile back. If you are that absentminded, for a young man no less, then I'm taking my marbles and leaving you to play by yourself.
Me:
''Can you be more specifc in your understanding of him ''siding with Islamists?''
Then you: ''Like how? Actual communications and receipts for guns and ammo? lol''
Great. Then you admit Obama is not a closet-Islamist. He's been outed. Thank you for saying that. Them boys and girls at Dasein are screwin' with your head. Posted by Arwa (Member # 11172) on :
Hi MK,
I am fine, thank you
No, my last post was not directed at you, but someone else with lack of social interaction skil, who does not know, when he lost the debate.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Hey, confused one, wheres that evidence Ron Paul is a "reformed KKK" in suit? Please dont post his son or libertarian views as evidence. Thats as dumb as saying white socialist Democrats who advocate welfare state etc are "reformed Nazis" (national socialists). I know you are that much of a simpleton.
Gramps, I dont care what your views are, its obvious its not about Islamism, or even revenge (yeh right, spending billions each month on an occupation for "revenge" hahaha) and you dont know how the game is played.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
Many older Americans, including Americans of color were tricked and fooled into the connived Russian-American Cold War money-making trickery.
When you consider the vast amount of money and resources consumed by the world in support of this fake cold war, the resources could have instead been used to feed, educate, and elevate every single living person in the world. Instead, they were used to enrich a handful of the world's population at the expense of the other 98%.
Now that the Russian-American experiment in Capitalism Vs. Communism has completed, we now are faced with new resource consuming fakery, The War Against Terrorism, Homeland Security, and One World Control.
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Anguishofbeing wails:
''Gramps, I dont care what your views are, its obvious its not about Islamism, or even revenge (yeh right, spending billions each month on an occupation for "revenge" hahaha) and you dont know how the game is played.''
See, look at yourself here, running around the room bouncing off walls and stuff trying to make it seem as though I said it's still about revenge and now Islamism. You didn't go to sleep last night did you? Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
I dont have to run from you old man, I leave that to you holocau$t believers. I'm just not in the mood to chase your dumbass bait posts. Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
Grumman
Was the Russian-American Cold War REAL?
If so, why are Russians on the top of current US immigration list, and how is it that they can come and go as they please?
Is the War Of Terror REAL? If so, why is it the primary so-called terrorists are CIA manufactured?
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Dont worry about Gramps, he'll have you chasing his straw men all day. Now look here, "Great. Then you admit Obama is not a closet-Islamist"
Of course I never said Obama was a closet anything. Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Melaninking:
''Was the Russian-American Cold War REAL? If so, why are Russians on the top of current US immigration list, and how is it that they can come and go as they please? Is the War Of Terror REAL? If so, why is it the primary so-called terrorists are CIA manufactured?
I'm at a loss to come to grips with any of this. Especially terrorists being a concoction of the CIA. Do you mean all the world's governments, or a lot of them anyway, are being duped by the CIA? Do all the African continent leaders say the same thing about that? I don't know I'm just asking. I'm truly at a loss to even entertain your comments.
I do recall about a year ago someone posted a quite lengthy article that seemed to be in support of your contention about terrorists and the CIA. If you can find it I'll surely read it all the way through this time.
Now I can certainly believe the CIA and its participants can be lowdown but to suggest they are in total control is beyond me. Am I reading you right on this?
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Anguisofbeing:
''Of course I never said Obama was a closet anything.''
My bag, I thought you were suggesting that he was the way you angled a few of your words.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Mainstream media (the propaganda arm of the US govt.) is now in the Jihadi PR business trying to alleviate fears.
**Former** ( ) jihadist at the heart of Libya's revolution
I can only say if the present U.S. leaders are as naive as the Bush folks, or any that came before them, then they need their asses kicked too. All I'm sayng here is I simply can't imagine the Obama administration *not* actually being aware before they even got involved that there would be *some* jihadis, former or present, involved in that struggle. But it serves them right to have the PR guys out front trying to assuage the fears.
I've always been highly sceptical of involvement of any kind in that part of the world for the past 40 years or so--apolitically though. And yes that definitely goes for Israel too. My thoughts on that go back to the ''recent'' beginnings of that cesspool brought on by the British and the U.S. who twisted a few others arms in the process leading up to 'partition'.
I saw this sh*t coming in 1972 in the Munich Olympics. I thought if these guys, the Arabs, have gotten to this point of desperation then maybe the western world and the Israelis had it coming. Yet the sad fact remains nothing has changed all that much.
Bottom line: I wouldn't be alive after two months as president because I would sever the financial welfare state of Israel in a heartbeat.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Anguishofbeing:
''He screwed up even more than the white boys.''
You know as well as I do the opposing side can rebutt that comment.
"an average of $9.7 billion a month, with roughly two-thirds going to Afghanistan. " Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
...and the 70s as I recall from that era also said Blacks suffer proportionally. If we only make up 12 percent of the population then yes they would suffer more.
Economists blame a variety of factors. The black workforce is younger than the white workforce, lower numbers of blacks get a college degree and many live in areas of the country that were harder hit by the recession -- all things that could lead to a higher unemployment rate.
Maybe. But not all Blacks are college graduates. A lot are skilled bluecollar; the blue collar that has been decimated by the white boys with those white shirt and ties seeking more profits overseas. College used to be thought of as a means of escaping the b.llsh.t. Guess what, the muthaf..kin' chickens are coming home to roost ain't they.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
Unemployment for blacks with 4 year college degree currently stands at approx. 6%, or approximately 2x that for whites with the same education level.
The difference is; Whites are being educated to take over and run there family businesses, while blacks are being educated to become employees.
Jews? There is virtually no unemployment for them and their unemployment stats are in the noise.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)