Trump wants to see the Long Form Death Certifcate before he believe it.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Osama Bin Laden just received his 72 virgins!!! Posted by Masonic Rebel (Member # 9549) on :
Where Bin Laden going there are no virgins Posted by Masonic Rebel (Member # 9549) on :
I hope the that the Team who does the DNA test on Laden aren't the team who did the testing on King TuT Osama would turn out to be North African Arab/Caucasoid Space Alien or something, well aleast the Birthers would believe it Anyway
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
There are actually different versions out on how he died:
- Osama Bin Laden Killed by U.S. Drone Strike in Pakistan http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/16623 (I particularly remember this incident as it occurred around the same time that US drones were used for the first time in Libya)
Anyway No 1 man of Al Qaeda is now Ayman Al Zawahiri - an Egyptian.
Posted by Masonic Rebel (Member # 9549) on :
CNN says Bin Laden was shot which would make sense,if he died by Drone Strike or by a Bomb Explosion his body would be harder to identify.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Osama Bin Laden died more than 10 years ago at the battle of Tora Bora Mountain.
This no-news is Obama-Osama's attempt to distract Americans from the pangs of rising gas prices and the coming inflation and financial meltdown...etc..etc...
This latest news is also an attempt to hide the horrific terrorist action of NATO in killing Gadafi's son and three grandchildren last night. They were all civilian non-combattants killed in a Tripoli neighbourhood
The Anglo-American Zionist power elites are going nuts...
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
''Osama Bin Laden just received his 72 virgins!!!''
Who would want virgins anyway. Give me the seasoned veteran anyday.
Posted by Masonic Rebel (Member # 9549) on :
Quote:
"This latest news is also an attempt to hide the horrific terrorist action of NATO in killing Gadafi's son and three grandchildren last night"
That's not good; I knew trying Kick out Gadafi aka "Regime Change" would have consequences as in civilian casualties' especially when you use air strikes, we need to get out of there in my opinion
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Okay, more details on his death:
US tracked couriers to an elaborate bin Laden compound
He died in firefight along with his son, two couriers, US officials say; Pakistan was not told in advance
Man, show me a picture of the dead man and I will be able to celebrate!!! Right now I am still cautious; too many times before it was said that Bin Laden has died.
Posted by Masonic Rebel (Member # 9549) on :
Oh and Zionist don't control the United States but has powerful influence in American politics.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
omg...I did it earlier on facebook and wrote Obama instead of Osama...and at ground zero a lady just said it on cnn live....haha
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Osama Bin Laden Body Headed for Burial at Sea, Officials Say
Okay now here the whole story becomes very very fishy!!!!!!
Obama wants to show respect to the dead Bin Laden by properly burying him according to Islamic practice - at sea????
Sorry but I don't believe the body they have is OBL's ..... no way!!!!
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Oh come on, CNN just reported that Bin Laden WAS ALREADY BURIED at sea!!!
What a complete bullshit is this?????
What a strange strange happening. How well calculated of Obama to announce Bin Laden's death to steal the spotlight in the news and now the body is already dumped at sea before anyone can request to see the remains.
Sorry but I don't buy anything from what has been said so far this morning.
There is a huge chance that there wasn't even a body in the first place.
Also CNN just said that Obama has "sealed his re-election" for 2012 with the killing of Bin Laden. Huhhhhh.... did I miss something?!?!?!?
Obama, you are a big fat WEASEL!!!!!!!!!! Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
The burial at sea makes some sense as it would not allow for large gatherings over the tomb whom many would consider a martyr and thus a rallying point.
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
Capitalism is really wasteful as many say. $5 Trillion just to kill one man. Plus 1.5 million corpses. I mean, that's weird.
All it would lead to is the cult status--a la Che Guevara killed by the CIA in Bolivia many years ago and people are still buying his T-shirts--of Ben Laden and more suicide bombers.
The problem is not Ben Laden per se but U.S. imperialism in West Asia and its support for the settler state Israel and its clients in the area: Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Jordan, etc.
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
For the Islamic fundamentalists, the fact--if true--that OBL was "buried" at sea would be seen as "deceased body desecration" which is strictly haram. More suicide bombings and assassinations in Afghanistan and Iraq a la carte--to follow.
As far as the political fallout is concerned: nothing really. Those who have opposed Obama will continue to do so and those who supported him to the hilt--AAs and others--will have to vote for him again since he will most likely not be challenged for the ticket in 2011. But some theatre can always help.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
I swear at the start of the coverage I heard he died a week ago coz I remembering thinking that was at easter and how Ironic....now its today and now hes already buried at sea...the only thing that links Obama and Osama is the letters BS....
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Masonic Rebel: Trump wants to see the Long Form Death Certifcate before he believe it.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Boooooogey-man is dead. 4 more years! Wonder how the approval ratings poll will be affected by this development. A huge win for Obama in history books and possibly Nov 2012.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
I hope so Exiiled....I think Id get cluster vomits if Trump or equivalent got in ....just living one Carls burger to another here in America so I can identify with half the place ....this will be interesting to see how it goes ....
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
distraction.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Hay^ guys remember George Bush Sr "won" the the first Iraqi conflict but still got he azz thrown out a year and change later.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by lamin: As far as the political fallout
The media will milk it for a month or so then around fall things will go back to "normal": bad economy, high gas prices, questions on Obama's legitimacy, his continuation of Bush polices etc. His reelection next years isn't a "slam dunk" IMO.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
anguishofbeing
quote:The media will milk it for a month or so then around fall things will go back to "normal": bad economy, high gas prices, questions on Obama's legitimacy, his continuation of Bush polices etc. His reelection next years isn't a "slam dunk" IMO.
Yep that is so true.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
by Robert Spencer
Osama bin Laden is dead. So what?
Osama bin Laden has gone to claim his virgins, and while that is fine news, it really won't change anything. The role of al-Qaeda in the global jihad, and the role of Osama bin Laden in al-Qaeda, have both been wildly overstated. Al-Qaeda is not the only Islamic jihad group or Islamic supremacist group operating today, and Osama bin Laden was not some charismatic leader whose movement will collapse without him. The exaggeration of his role, in fact, was a result of the general unwillingness to face the reality that the global jihad is a movement driven by an ideology, not an outsized personality, and that that ideology is rooted in Islam.
So Osama bin Laden, after years of silence punctuated by mysterious gnomic utterances delivered (how? by whom?) to the media, finally joins Generalissimo Franco in the ranks of the still dead. I will forthwith hoist a suitably haram beverage in toast of the happy news. And then it will be back to work. The jihad will go on, and so will I, and so, I hope, will you.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: I swear at the start of the coverage I heard he died a week ago coz I remembering thinking that was at easter and how Ironic....now its today and now hes already buried at sea...the only thing that links Obama and Osama is the letters BS....
Lol just right now you could read on CNN "Inside Obama's Compound" with live footage from Pakistan. Really CNN people need more coffee breaks!!!
Update: Now they changed it to "Bin Laden's Compound" - still showing the same pics.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
ok then...lets play a game seeing we r all so smart....what will win the next presidential election in America? Who will give them $5 a week more in their pocket? or is there something more important that Ive missed?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: ok then...lets play a game seeing we r all so smart....what will win the next presidential election in America? Who will give them $5 a week more in their pocket? or is there something more important that Ive missed?
Obama has been his perceived as “lacking in military leadership”, a weak commander-in-chief if you will. This has been one of his achilles- heels. Osama Bin Laden's death could possibly erase this card, and no president or presidential hopeful wants to enter a campaign as a weak man (militarily). This is not to say it is the be all card when it comes to presidential elections because the economy usually tops that list. But this helps immensely, and people can critcize Obama as much as they feel necessary. It doesn't change the fact that OB death is very positive for the incumbent.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Why? Aren't moderate Muslims thronging the streets, dancing in celebration and handing out candy? Didn't bin Laden represent a Tiny Minority of Extremists despised by the Vast Majority of Peaceful Muslims?
Posted by Desi (Member # 18819) on :
Just as Saddam Hussein and now Osama ( Usama) Bin Laden have learned the hard way is that you can run but you cannot hide! Don't mess with the mighty U.S.!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Osama bin Laden dead: body 'identified by sister's brain'
Osama bin Laden's body was identified by US authorities by matching a DNA sample to one taken from his late sister's brain, according to reports.
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: ok then...lets play a game seeing we r all so smart....what will win the next presidential election in America? Who will give them $5 a week more in their pocket? or is there something more important that Ive missed?
Obama has been his perceived as “lacking in military leadership”, a weak commander-in-chief if you will. This has been one of his achilles- heels. Osama Bin Laden's death could possibly erase this card, and no president or presidential hopeful wants to enter a campaign as a weak man (militarily). This is not to say it is the be all card when it comes to presidential elections because the economy usually tops that list. But this helps immensely, and people can critcize Obama as much as they feel necessary. It doesn't change the fact that OB death is very positive for the incumbent.
Obama could find a cure for cancer tomorrow but none of that will matter in 2012 if gas remains over $4 dollars a gallon, food prices remain high, wages continue to go down, people continue to work longer and harder for less, the economy remains sluggish or possibly crashes again, and the plutocrats continue to send jobs overseas. If Obama cant stem this tide it wont matter if he kills ten Bin Ladens.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by JMT2:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: ok then...lets play a game seeing we r all so smart....what will win the next presidential election in America? Who will give them $5 a week more in their pocket? or is there something more important that Ive missed?
Obama has been his perceived as “lacking in military leadership”, a weak commander-in-chief if you will. This has been one of his achilles- heels. Osama Bin Laden's death could possibly erase this card, and no president or presidential hopeful wants to enter a campaign as a weak man (militarily). This is not to say it is the be all card when it comes to presidential elections because the economy usually tops that list. But this helps immensely, and people can critcize Obama as much as they feel necessary. It doesn't change the fact that OB death is very positive for the incumbent.
Obama could find a cure for cancer tomorrow but none of that will matter in 2012 if gas remains over $4 dollars a gallon, food prices remain high, wages continue to go down, people continue to work longer and harder for less, the economy remains sluggish or possibly crashes again, and the plutocrats continue to send jobs overseas. If Obama cant stem this tide it wont matter if he kills ten Bin Ladens.
He killed the boogeyman and for many that should mean a goodnight sleep. As for economics, are we to deny an awful economy was handed down to him? This is the prez third year and all results from previous two years where leftovers from Bush administration. Real growth rate for 2011 is projected at 2.70% the highest since 2006. Let's see what what's in store for 2012. If 2011 ends with 2.70% and 2012 between 3.00 and 3.50% that is beyond economically successful. As for gas costing $4, get used to it, because it is getting less and more countries are demanding it (supply&demand). And the cost of gas at the pump has nothing to do with Obama, don't be surprised if it reaches $5 and $7 within 5 years and $10 in next 15 years. Pity the Europeans, some pay nearly $10 a gallon now.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by JMT2:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: ok then...lets play a game seeing we r all so smart....what will win the next presidential election in America? Who will give them $5 a week more in their pocket? or is there something more important that Ive missed?
Obama has been his perceived as “lacking in military leadership”, a weak commander-in-chief if you will. This has been one of his achilles- heels. Osama Bin Laden's death could possibly erase this card, and no president or presidential hopeful wants to enter a campaign as a weak man (militarily). This is not to say it is the be all card when it comes to presidential elections because the economy usually tops that list. But this helps immensely, and people can critcize Obama as much as they feel necessary. It doesn't change the fact that OB death is very positive for the incumbent.
Obama could find a cure for cancer tomorrow but none of that will matter in 2012 if gas remains over $4 dollars a gallon, food prices remain high, wages continue to go down, people continue to work longer and harder for less, the economy remains sluggish or possibly crashes again, and the plutocrats continue to send jobs overseas. If Obama cant stem this tide it wont matter if he kills ten Bin Ladens.
He killed the boogeyman and for many that should mean a goodnight sleep. As for economics, are we to deny an awful economy was handed down to him? This is the prez third year and all results from previous two years where leftovers from Bush administration. Real growth rate for 2011 is projected at 2.70% the highest since 2006. Let's see what what's in store for 2012. If 2011 ends with 2.70% and 2012 between 3.00 and 3.50% that is beyond economically successful. As for gas costing $4, get used to it, because it is getting less and more countries are demanding it (supply&demand). And the cost of gas at the pump has nothing to do with Obama, don't be surprised if it reaches $5 and $7 within 5 years and $10 in next 15 years. Pity the Europeans, some pay nearly $10 a gallon now.
$4 a gallon? You have got to be kidding me! You lucky, lucky devils!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
How much you pay Monkey? I'm too embarrassed to type how much I pay per gallon. Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
£1.30 a litre - works out as 9.76 dollars a gallon.
EDIT: just remembered, us gallons are different to ours, so that works out as 8.19 dollars a us gallon. We don't talk about gallons here anymore. Give it time, we'll probably be dealing in ml at this rate.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: £1.30 a litre - works out as 9.76 dollars a gallon.
EDIT: just remembered, us gallons are different to ours, so that works out as 8.19 dollars a us gallon. We don't talk about gallons here anymore. Give it time, we'll probably be dealing in ml at this rate.
LOL --> ml <--
Yer funny - but real.
I pay $2.50 per gallon or about .65 liter (3.8 liters) Posted by JMT2 (Member # 16951) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by JMT2:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: ok then...lets play a game seeing we r all so smart....what will win the next presidential election in America? Who will give them $5 a week more in their pocket? or is there something more important that Ive missed?
Obama has been his perceived as “lacking in military leadership”, a weak commander-in-chief if you will. This has been one of his achilles- heels. Osama Bin Laden's death could possibly erase this card, and no president or presidential hopeful wants to enter a campaign as a weak man (militarily). This is not to say it is the be all card when it comes to presidential elections because the economy usually tops that list. But this helps immensely, and people can critcize Obama as much as they feel necessary. It doesn't change the fact that OB death is very positive for the incumbent.
Obama could find a cure for cancer tomorrow but none of that will matter in 2012 if gas remains over $4 dollars a gallon, food prices remain high, wages continue to go down, people continue to work longer and harder for less, the economy remains sluggish or possibly crashes again, and the plutocrats continue to send jobs overseas. If Obama cant stem this tide it wont matter if he kills ten Bin Ladens.
He killed the boogeyman and for many that should mean a goodnight sleep. As for economics, are we to deny an awful economy was handed down to him? This is the prez third year and all results from previous two years where leftovers from Bush administration. Real growth rate for 2011 is projected at 2.70% the highest since 2006. Let's see what what's in store for 2012. If 2011 ends with 2.70% and 2012 between 3.00 and 3.50% that is beyond economically successful. As for gas costing $4, get used to it, because it is getting less and more countries are demanding it (supply&demand). And the cost of gas at the pump has nothing to do with Obama, don't be surprised if it reaches $5 and $7 within 5 years and $10 in next 15 years. Pity the Europeans, some pay nearly $10 a gallon now.
This is the problem when people romanticize Obama; cognitive dissonance.
Lets be realistic, nobody outside the CIA (Criminal Intelligence Agency) was worried about Bin Laden. Where you? I sure as hell wasn't. And nobody I know was worried about him either. But people are very worried about holding to their jobs in a unstable economy, not letting their homes go to foreclosure, and simply having a square meal. And it doesn't matter who handed what economy down to Obama. People don't want to hear excuses. The only thing people in America care about is instant gratification - who is going to fix what and how fast are they going to fix it. You know very well people in America have a very short attention span. So it's pointless to suggest Bush handed a bad economy to Obama. The bad economy is on Obama's watch so what is he going to do with it is what concerns ordinary people. "As for gas costing $4, get used to it." This is a very arrogant comment I would expect from a conservative right-winger. People don't want to get use to $4 dollars or more for gas. You know that damn well. Let Obama say "get use to it" and see what happens. This is exactly the type of attitude that will get Obama booted in 2012.
Posted by JMT2 (Member # 16951) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: The burial at sea makes some sense as it would not allow for large gatherings over the tomb whom many would consider a martyr and thus a rallying point.
I disagree, Brada. I believe it would have been very humiliating for Bin laden and demoralizing for his disciples if Bin Laden were to be tried and convicted. Thats what they did with the nazis in the Nuremberg trials after WWII. No way is Bin Laden in the same league with that bunch. So why the sudden rush to drop him off in the ocean? Why all the secrecy? Perhaps Bin Laden has too much dirt on America. Something is very suspicious with this Bin Laden thing. Buried at sea? So we are never going to see the body and once again we have no choice but to accept the official version of the events. There was no good reason to have buried him at sea. The U.S. government is the same entity which lied about the cause of the Spanish - American war. Lied about why we went to war with Korea. Lied about the Gulf of Tonkin. Lied about why we went to Vietnam. Lied about the assassination of JFK, Malcolm X, and Martin Luther King. Lied about operation Eagle Claw. Lied about why we went to war with Iraq. Lied about WMD. Lied about Jessica Lynch. Lied about the murder of Pat Tillman. Lies lies lies!!!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: £1.30 a litre - works out as 9.76 dollars a gallon.
EDIT: just remembered, us gallons are different to ours, so that works out as 8.19 dollars a us gallon. We don't talk about gallons here anymore. Give it time, we'll probably be dealing in ml at this rate.
LOL --> ml <--
Yer funny - but real.
I pay $2.50 per gallon or about .65 liter (3.8 liters)
La la la la la - I can't hear you
Think the previous poster had a valid point about offing Bin Laden - seemed to come out of nowhere. I heard it this morning and thought - huh? He slipped off the radar of Joe Bloggs ages ago, we do forget, and that's fine, til there's another 9/11, or worse.
No harm no foul. Shame it didn't happen ten years ago mind. TBH, I'm not really for capital punishment, but if they'd arrested him al qaeda would have been spurred into carrying out god knows what to lever him out. Not that I'd say it's peachy now, but it's peachier, at least.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by JMT2:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by JMT2:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: ok then...lets play a game seeing we r all so smart....what will win the next presidential election in America? Who will give them $5 a week more in their pocket? or is there something more important that Ive missed?
Obama has been his perceived as “lacking in military leadership”, a weak commander-in-chief if you will. This has been one of his achilles- heels. Osama Bin Laden's death could possibly erase this card, and no president or presidential hopeful wants to enter a campaign as a weak man (militarily). This is not to say it is the be all card when it comes to presidential elections because the economy usually tops that list. But this helps immensely, and people can critcize Obama as much as they feel necessary. It doesn't change the fact that OB death is very positive for the incumbent.
Obama could find a cure for cancer tomorrow but none of that will matter in 2012 if gas remains over $4 dollars a gallon, food prices remain high, wages continue to go down, people continue to work longer and harder for less, the economy remains sluggish or possibly crashes again, and the plutocrats continue to send jobs overseas. If Obama cant stem this tide it wont matter if he kills ten Bin Ladens.
He killed the boogeyman and for many that should mean a goodnight sleep. As for economics, are we to deny an awful economy was handed down to him? This is the prez third year and all results from previous two years where leftovers from Bush administration. Real growth rate for 2011 is projected at 2.70% the highest since 2006. Let's see what what's in store for 2012. If 2011 ends with 2.70% and 2012 between 3.00 and 3.50% that is beyond economically successful. As for gas costing $4, get used to it, because it is getting less and more countries are demanding it (supply&demand). And the cost of gas at the pump has nothing to do with Obama, don't be surprised if it reaches $5 and $7 within 5 years and $10 in next 15 years. Pity the Europeans, some pay nearly $10 a gallon now.
This is the problem when people romanticize Obama; cognitive dissonance.
Lets be realistic, nobody outside the CIA (Criminal Intelligence Agency) was worried about Bin Laden. Where you? I sure as hell wasn't. And nobody I know was worried about him either. But people are very worried about holding to their jobs in a unstable economy, not letting their homes go to foreclosure, and simply having a square meal. And it doesn't matter who handed what economy down to Obama. People don't want to hear excuses. The only thing people in America care about is instant gratification - who is going to fix what and how fast are they going to fix it. You know very well people in America have a very short attention span. So it's pointless to suggest Bush handed a bad economy to Obama. The bad economy is on Obama's watch so what is he going to do with it is what concerns ordinary people. "As for gas costing $4, get used to it." This is a very arrogant comment I would expect from a conservative right-winger. People don't want to get use to $4 dollars or more for gas. You know that damn well. Let Obama say "get use to it" and see what happens. This is exactly the type of attitude that will get Obama booted in 2012.
Cognitive dissonance indeed! But what can you expect from a guy who cheered France and UAE for bringing "freedom" to Libya. LMAO!!!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
quote:Originally posted by JMT2:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by JMT2:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: ok then...lets play a game seeing we r all so smart....what will win the next presidential election in America? Who will give them $5 a week more in their pocket? or is there something more important that Ive missed?
Obama has been his perceived as “lacking in military leadership”, a weak commander-in-chief if you will. This has been one of his achilles- heels. Osama Bin Laden's death could possibly erase this card, and no president or presidential hopeful wants to enter a campaign as a weak man (militarily). This is not to say it is the be all card when it comes to presidential elections because the economy usually tops that list. But this helps immensely, and people can critcize Obama as much as they feel necessary. It doesn't change the fact that OB death is very positive for the incumbent.
Obama could find a cure for cancer tomorrow but none of that will matter in 2012 if gas remains over $4 dollars a gallon, food prices remain high, wages continue to go down, people continue to work longer and harder for less, the economy remains sluggish or possibly crashes again, and the plutocrats continue to send jobs overseas. If Obama cant stem this tide it wont matter if he kills ten Bin Ladens.
He killed the boogeyman and for many that should mean a goodnight sleep. As for economics, are we to deny an awful economy was handed down to him? This is the prez third year and all results from previous two years where leftovers from Bush administration. Real growth rate for 2011 is projected at 2.70% the highest since 2006. Let's see what what's in store for 2012. If 2011 ends with 2.70% and 2012 between 3.00 and 3.50% that is beyond economically successful. As for gas costing $4, get used to it, because it is getting less and more countries are demanding it (supply&demand). And the cost of gas at the pump has nothing to do with Obama, don't be surprised if it reaches $5 and $7 within 5 years and $10 in next 15 years. Pity the Europeans, some pay nearly $10 a gallon now.
This is the problem when people romanticize Obama; cognitive dissonance.
Lets be realistic, nobody outside the CIA (Criminal Intelligence Agency) was worried about Bin Laden. Where you? I sure as hell wasn't. And nobody I know was worried about him either. But people are very worried about holding to their jobs in a unstable economy, not letting their homes go to foreclosure, and simply having a square meal. And it doesn't matter who handed what economy down to Obama. People don't want to hear excuses. The only thing people in America care about is instant gratification - who is going to fix what and how fast are they going to fix it. You know very well people in America have a very short attention span. So it's pointless to suggest Bush handed a bad economy to Obama. The bad economy is on Obama's watch so what is he going to do with it is what concerns ordinary people. "As for gas costing $4, get used to it." This is a very arrogant comment I would expect from a conservative right-winger. People don't want to get use to $4 dollars or more for gas. You know that damn well. Let Obama say "get use to it" and see what happens. This is exactly the type of attitude that will get Obama booted in 2012.
Cognitive dissonance indeed! But what can you expect from a guy who cheered France and UAE for bringing "freedom" to Libya. LMAO!!!
Anguishina you're obvisouly on my jock, and there isn't any "Cognitive dissonance", about that. It's cool, black chicks always dug me, loved my "soft cury hair", obviously among other things. You only want my nuts though - get in line! Posted by Chef Mick (Member # 11209) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by JMT2:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: ok then...lets play a game seeing we r all so smart....what will win the next presidential election in America? Who will give them $5 a week more in their pocket? or is there something more important that Ive missed?
Obama has been his perceived as “lacking in military leadership”, a weak commander-in-chief if you will. This has been one of his achilles- heels. Osama Bin Laden's death could possibly erase this card, and no president or presidential hopeful wants to enter a campaign as a weak man (militarily). This is not to say it is the be all card when it comes to presidential elections because the economy usually tops that list. But this helps immensely, and people can critcize Obama as much as they feel necessary. It doesn't change the fact that OB death is very positive for the incumbent.
Obama could find a cure for cancer tomorrow but none of that will matter in 2012 if gas remains over $4 dollars a gallon, food prices remain high, wages continue to go down, people continue to work longer and harder for less, the economy remains sluggish or possibly crashes again, and the plutocrats continue to send jobs overseas. If Obama cant stem this tide it wont matter if he kills ten Bin Ladens.
He killed the boogeyman and for many that should mean a goodnight sleep. As for economics, are we to deny an awful economy was handed down to him? This is the prez third year and all results from previous two years where leftovers from Bush administration. Real growth rate for 2011 is projected at 2.70% the highest since 2006. Let's see what what's in store for 2012. If 2011 ends with 2.70% and 2012 between 3.00 and 3.50% that is beyond economically successful. As for gas costing $4, get used to it, because it is getting less and more countries are demanding it (supply&demand). And the cost of gas at the pump has nothing to do with Obama, don't be surprised if it reaches $5 and $7 within 5 years and $10 in next 15 years. Pity the Europeans, some pay nearly $10 a gallon now.
$4 a gallon? You have got to be kidding me! You lucky, lucky devils!
just paid $4.65 a gallon here Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
A lot of people here are converting their cars to run on used cooking oil. Seriously. I know someone whose done this and goes to the local chippie to buy their fat, only nowadays there is getting to be a big queue for it so they're having to buy it from the shops, which is driving the price of cooking oil up too!
Madness!
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Anguisofbeing:
''His reelection next years isn't a "slam dunk" IMO.''
When did you you start saying ''IMO''?
You ain't gettin' weak are you? Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Bin Laden dead, jihadists give up - no, wait...
"We will take our revenge on behalf of the Islamic Ummah for the death of the Sheikh of Islam ... Whoever wishes this to be the end of jihad or a means to weaken the organization, I say to him: Wait a little!"
quote:''His reelection next years isn't a "slam dunk" IMO.''
.
You may be right. The AAs may be slowly getting the message on their Manchurian candidate president. I noted that at the televised "U.S.A. all the way rallies" very few people were black. Or maybe it's because the rallies looked like KKK rallies--or a lynching party--so the AAs instinctively stayed away.
The big mistake the right people made about BHO is that they failed to understand that the man was raised by whites. Sociopathic white thinking was imprinted on his mind from birth. Blame the dad for allowing that to happen.
The marriage to a black and the Rev. Wright period was just a stage of confusion. But all that could not erase the base of the sociopathic white mind, of which one aspect is killing and murder without passion--like killing ants or flies.
In all this there is need to investigate how BHO was targeted, vetted then selected as a kind of Manchurian candidate for the job at hand.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Now it's been reported that Bin Laden wasn't even armed when executed. So why not taking him in alive and let him stand trial for all the murders he committed or helped to commit????
Now that would have been JUSTICE.
Hm and still no proof that Bin Laden is dead. The US government is 'weighing options' to show or not to show pics of the deceased Al Qaeda leader.
Strange is the fact that the US didn't have any probs to show a hanged Saddam Hussein on TV..... just saying.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
so its the price of petrol that sways elections!!!! back to subject..geez there's a lot of speculation about this death...have read lots on internet and really sad theres not more objective coverage of it all on the american channels Ive watched so far.Im still in the 'doubting Thomasina' camp but am sure 'they' will have to put up evidence soon...seeing they saved so much money on having a court case.
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
The U.S. named their "kill OBL operation" Operation Geronimo. Whether a Freudian slip or not--hard to tell. As you know whites when they their fiercest enemies always like to cut of ears, scalps, etc. as trophies. When they don't or cannot they just adopt the names of their enemies.
Geronimo for those who read the white invader settlement of the U.S. know that Geronimo--see today's BBC frontpage--put up some fierce terror fighting against the murdering and land-thieving invaders.
How was Geronimo caught? The usual way: betrayal. Some Apache trackers led the whites to his hideout. If OBL is indeed dead then somebody must have tipped of the imperialists for something big.
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
tigerlilly-misr:
''So why not taking him in alive and let him stand trial for all the murders he committed or helped to commit????
''Now that would have been JUSTICE.''
The other side of the argument is why give him a lengthy trial only to have some of his buddies kidnap Americans and Europeans and hold them hostage, probably killing them if their wishes aren't met. Killing him was the best option at this point. The U.S. will have enough trouble on its hands because they won't correct their policies as it regards Israel.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Just as the birth certificate suspense, this is just another strategy of distraction on the part of the Obama admin. Instead of discussions on the economy and his slavish following of Bush's policies we will now be subjected to weeks if not months of Bin Laden discussions, conspiracy theories and theories about conspiracy theories. You gotta give this guy credit, right after the demise of one distraction (birthers) he generates another (Bin Laden).
Posted by Masonic Rebel (Member # 9549) on :
quote:The White House had been weighing the release of a photo, in part to offer proof that bin Laden was killed during a raid on his compound early Monday. However, officials had cautioned that the photo was gruesome and could prove inflammatory
RELEASE THE PHOTOS LET THE PUBLIC DECIDE WHAT THEY CAN WITHSTAND!!!!!!!!!
My God we aren't babies, we showed the photos of Saddam's Dead Sons and Saddam Hussein Execution video and there was no "National Security Risk".
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Osama Bin Laden died more than 10 years ago at the battle of Tora Bora Mountain.
This no-news is Obama-Osama's attempt to distract Americans from the pangs of rising gas prices and the coming inflation and financial meltdown...etc..etc...
This latest news is also an attempt to hide the horrific terrorist action of NATO in killing Gadafi's son and three grandchildren last night. They were all civilian non-combattants killed in a Tripoli neighbourhood
The Anglo-American Zionist power elites are going nuts...
Masonic Rebel
Now, you can see the context of the above commentary...?
Cheers
Lion!
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman:
The other side of the argument is why give him a lengthy trial
...because it is the objective thing to do. When a crime is committed, that is what sane people do: try the criminal and have the criminal explain him/herself before the victims' significant others why and what circumstances prompted this crime.
quote:
only to have some of his buddies kidnap Americans and Europeans and hold them hostage, probably killing them if their wishes aren't met.
Information has come out that bin Laden wasn't armed after all, which implies that there was a very real chance that he could have been captured alive and brought to trial. That this didn't happen, along with eye witness accounts differing from official US narrative of events, raises questions. To take US government accounts uncritically at face value, without needing trial of the accused, is to be mentally sheepish. It makes no sense to say that a criminal should not stand for trial, look victims in the eye and explain him/herself, and then face the appropriate punishment, just for fear of what *might* happen to some faceless non-existent persons in the future.
quote: Killing him was the best option at this point. The U.S. will have enough trouble on its hands because they won't correct their policies as it regards Israel.
On the contrary, killing him when he could just as well be captured to face trial, spurs suspicions that the U.S. government has something to hide. Using your rationale, the U.S. government could just as well use the occasion to set into motion, the policy of even killing political dissidents [like say, folks at Wikileaks or the like] without concern for trial, under the pretext that the person is a "threat to national security", or under some dubious allegation which a sheepish audience is expected to buy into without critical thinking.
Trial of a character like bin Laden would have been critical, since after all, he was once an ally to the U.S., not to mention revealing to us more immediately, why this guy was living lavishly near a highly secured community in the vicinity of the Pakistani capital, not far from either the Pakistani intelligence community or a base used for U.S. military training. We might have learned in a nearer term, why the Pakistani and the U.S. did not realize that this guy was right under their noses!
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
His house is worth $250K as reported. And don't forget he is a multimillionaire. In nay case the conditions as shown on the TV are not that luxurious really.
You are right: killing him when unarmed doesn't make sense. In fact it enhances him. Just like Jesus the Christ was made into a venerated and worshipped deity after the Romans executed him.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by lamin: You are right: killing him when unarmed doesn't make sense. In fact it enhances him. Just like Jesus the Christ was made into a venerated and worshipped deity after the Romans executed him.
It could be because over 500 people saw Jesus alive after they had watched him be tortured, crucified and die that he is worshiped as a deity. Also could be that he fulfilled every prophecy in the Torah that was written over a period of time by different men. All of his disciples believed this so strongly without force or coercion that they were also willing to be killed for his sake.
Now if the ones who killed Osama and saw him die see him alive again this would be something. Don't you think?
quote: 1Cr 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Cr 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
1Cr 15:5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve.
1Cr 15:6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.
1Cr 15:7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles.
1Cr 15:8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time
quote: I apologize for reporting the operation 'unwittingly/unknowingly' - had I known about it, I would have tweeted about it 'wittingly' I swear.
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
quote:It could be because over 500 people saw Jesus alive after they had watched him be tortured, crucified and die that he is worshiped as a deity. Also could be that he fulfilled every prophecy in the Torah that was written over a period of time by different men. All of his disciples believed this so strongly without force or coercion that they were also willing to be killed for his sake. [Wink]
This just proves my point: what you say above is just part of the deification myth. One of the criteria for deification status is that the revolutionary personage has to escape death or be killed and be revivified after.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by lamin:
His house is worth $250K as reported. And don't forget he is a multimillionaire. In nay case the conditions as shown on the TV are not that luxurious really.
I was making a tacit comparison to the often repeated myth that bin Laden was a wonderer who lived in cave to cave, under the protection of Pakistani "tribial" community, near the Pakistani-Afghanistan border. Clearly, that building would offer better comfort than a cave, devoid of even basic electricity, wouldn't it?
quote: You are right: killing him when unarmed doesn't make sense. In fact it enhances him. Just like Jesus the Christ was made into a venerated and worshipped deity after the Romans executed him.
The whole 1st official U.S. narrative, including the revised official U.S. ones upon information coming from Pakistani interrogations, doesn't make sense. The Obama administration is hiding something, and so are the Pakistani government officials. People have to stand back and think for a moment; how the heck did the administration get the course of events entirely wrong the first time around, especially since they have been on record [via photographs], viewing the whole thing in "real time", we were told by the media on the day the story broke that the al Qaeda leader was pinned down?
Propaganda media like CNN are naturally, now trying to take cover for both themselves and the U.S. government. For example, folks at CNN are now trying to build the narrative that the administration may have been given the inaccurate account of the events by their "advisers". I was immediately like, "don't even go there; the president, including Hilary Clinton, were shown in photograph, reportedly watching the whole event in real time with their very own eyes". They cannot try to scapegoat some nameless second party persons for trying to deceive the public, or presumably for getting themselves on the wrong track as far as what to tell the public, about what went down during the raid into the bin Laden compound!
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Originally posted by Grumman:
''The other side of the argument is why give him a lengthy trial''
The Explorer says,
''...because it is the objective thing to do.'' Then it is obvious objectivity wasn't going to be an issue; at least not to the trigger man/men; in anticipation of a trial somewhere down the line.
''When a crime is committed, that is what sane people do: try the criminal and have the criminal explain him/herself before the victims' significant others why and what circumstances prompted this crime.''
This assumes 'sane ' people want to hear what he has to say as compared to ''I robbed the bank and the manager accidentally got in the way so that's how I killed him.''
''Information has come out that bin Laden wasn't armed after all, which implies that there was a very real chance that he could have been captured alive and brought to trial.''
...by your and others objective appraisal or the killers subjectivity, regardless if one or two other killers wanted to be objective?
''That this didn't happen, along with eye witness accounts differing from official US narrative of events, raises questions. To take US government accounts uncritically at face value, without needing trial of the accused, is to be mentally sheepish.''
I've heard and read everything you said via television and newspaper analysts. And I suppose a lot will follow along with your sheepish interpretation. But how does your sheepish explanation take away the subjectivity of the killers? Whose sole application for the job may quite possibly have been subjectivity alone and to eliminate a trial. In other words their objectivity had no place in a subjective environment, that is, killing environment.
''It makes no sense to say that a criminal should not stand for trial, look victims in the eye and explain him/herself, and then face the appropriate punishment, just for fear of what *might* happen to some faceless non-existent persons in the future.''
If the criminal/killer in the courtroom, says ''yeah man, I killed them so what?'' So now the killer has added insult to injury. But that's part of the system. In effect the killer is saying change your policies and you won't get killed. Yet most may at this point, after a lengthy trial, come to that same conclusion of minding your business. But then reality kicks right back in and the prosecuting attorney says policy change isn't the issue here. It's your killing that's the problem.
''On the contrary, killing him when he could just as well be captured to face trial, spurs suspicions that the U.S. government has something to hide. Using your rationale, the U.S. government could just as well use the occasion to set into motion, the policy of even killing political dissidents [like say, folks at Wikileaks or the like] without concern for trial, under the pretext that the person is a "threat to national security", or under some dubious allegation which a sheepish audience is expected to buy into without critical thinking.''
A government that has manipulated and lied for a couple of centuries is something not known? This is some of that sheep stuff you're talking about. But... they may not be sheep at all: they just don't like certain individuals in society--and a governing body knows this. But I'm sure an enterprising but naive young reporter wanting to make a name for himself could probably dig up some highly sensitive and dangerous information; but he or she may get themselves killed in the process for not being a sheep.
Trial of a character like bin Laden would have been critical, since after all, he was once an ally to the U.S., not to mention revealing to us more immediately, why this guy was living lavishly near a highly secured community in the vicinity of the Pakistani capital, not far from either the Pakistani intelligence community or a base used for U.S. military training. We might have learned in a nearer term, why the Pakistani and the U.S. did not realize that this guy was right under their noses!''
That laden was an ally in the past means nothing in the present. U.S. policies turned him against this system in a big way. This is why he wound up being treated to the subjective ways of killers. It matters not that ''sane'' persons think he should have been brought to trial.
another topic and post:
That Laden was living ''in plain sight'' means these Pakistanis live in, and run the country and won't investigate the compound--because the U.S. has more sophisticated equipment? Well dam, knock on the door. If the compound says go f yourself then knock the door down. If it isn't who you suspect it to be then apologize and leave. Simple as that.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by lamin: The U.S. named their "kill OBL operation" Operation Geronimo. Whether a Freudian slip or not--hard to tell. As you know whites when they their fiercest enemies always like to cut of ears, scalps, etc. as trophies. When they don't or cannot they just adopt the names of their enemies.
Geronimo for those who read the white invader settlement of the U.S. know that Geronimo--see today's BBC frontpage--put up some fierce terror fighting against the murdering and land-thieving invaders.
How was Geronimo caught? The usual way: betrayal. Some Apache trackers led the whites to his hideout. If OBL is indeed dead then somebody must have tipped of the imperialists for something big.
Grumman STFU. You make no sense.
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
I take it you're mad because binny boy exhausted all his tricks of hide-and-go-seek. Well look at it this way, he made the hired killers work much harder with their technology to find him. What more can you ask of him.
You might want to criticize Pakistan for letting this happen. Speaking of which, the billions they do get fom the U.S. will probably flow a while longer.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
CIA had safe house in Abbottabad, spied on Bin Laden for MONTHS
Share posted at 5:34 pm on May 6, 2011 by Allahpundit
Alternate headline: “Much to Americans’ amazement, CIA appears to be competent.”
Kidding aside, this is the first evidence thus far that the Pakistani government wasn’t hiding Osama. If they knew the CIA team was in town and continued to let them operate, then either they were actively cooperating with us or they were double-dealing on Bin Laden by looking the other way at our spies. If they didn’t know the CIA team was in town, then it’s more plausible that they’re honest-to-goodness imbeciles who might have missed the fact that the world’s most wanted terrorist had been there for, um, five years. (If they were hiding him, wouldn’t they have been closely scrutinizing new arrivals in the neighborhood for fear that they were CIA?) Given the embarrassment OBL’s location has caused Pakistan, I assume there’s no way they would have willingly allowed us to take him out at the compound. Once they knew the CIA was there, either they would have spirited him away to a new location or they would have grabbed him and handed him over on the condition that we would say publicly that he was caught in the tribal areas, not a few blocks away from the national military academy.
Realistically, then, there’s no way that they knew the CIA was there. (In fact, according to a U.S. official, they’re reportedly “stunned” by the CIA’s penetration.) Which makes it slightly, but only slightly, more likely that they didn’t know Bin Laden was there either.
The C.I.A. surveillance team in the rented house near Bin Laden’s hide-out took pains to avoid detection not only by the suspected Qaeda operatives they were watching but by Pakistani intelligence and the local police.
Observing from behind mirrored glass, C.I.A. officers used cameras with telephoto lenses and infrared imaging equipment to study the compound, and they used sensitive eavesdropping equipment to try to pick up voices from inside the house and to intercept cellphone calls. A satellite used radar to search for possible escape tunnels.
Still, the spying operation had its limits: the American surveillance team would see a man take regular walks through the compound’s courtyard — they called him “the pacer” — but they were never able to confirm the man was Bin Laden.
Bin Laden took great care to conceal himself on the premises — another small point in the case for exculpating the Pakistanis — with his wife allegedly claiming that he didn’t leave the upstairs bedroom in five years. I doubt that’s true, though, as it contradicts the detail in the NYT story about “the pacer” strolling in the backyard. More likely is that it’s the wife herself who never left the upper floors, kept like a slave in a cell while Bin Laden, under de facto house arrest, at least got to stroll the courtyard for a few hours a day. It’s curious to me, though, why he wanted his wives and multiple kids with him given that it increased the risk of attracting attention. Maybe he thought they were insurance against a U.S. drone strike or bombing run: If we blew the house to smithereens, an option Obama once considered but ruled out in part due to fear of civilian casualties, the Pakistanis would find plenty of dead children in the rubble to use as anti-American propaganda.
Read WaPo’s piece on the CIA safe house too, at it explains how Abbottabad was risky for Bin Laden insofar as it’s a tourist town where strangers can assimilate more easily than they can in a jihadi stronghold. A tantalizing detail buried several paragraphs in: U.S. officials provided new details on bin Laden’s final moments, saying the al-Qaeda leader was first spotted by U.S. forces in the doorway of his room on the compound’s third floor. Bin Laden then turned and retreated into the room before being shot twice — in the head and in the chest. U.S. commandos later found an AK-47 and a pistol in the room.
“He was retreating,” a move that was regarded as resistance, a U.S. official briefed on the operation said. “You don’t know why he’s retreating, what he’s doing when he goes back in there. Is he getting a weapon? Does he have a [suicide] vest?”
As for Bin Laden’s support network in Abbottabad, the Pakistanis have already arrested more than 200 people who knew Bin Laden’s courier. I wonder if that’s designed to start them talking to Pakistani authorities about Osama or to stop them from talking to third parties about Osama’s relationship with those same authorities. (Bin Laden’s wife remains in custody, likely for the same reason.) Either way, there are plenty of scapegoats coming; in fact, even the head of the ISI is rumored to be on his way out, maybe because he failed to detect Bin Laden or maybe because he didn’t do a good enough job in preventing Bin Laden’s detection. Pakistani officials have also ginned up some spin to downplay Bin Laden’s significance by claiming that he’d been sidelined years ago by Zawahiri. U.S. officials say that’s nonsense, though — and in fact, according to data recovered from his computer, he was much more active in directing plots against the west than counterterror experts had previously believed. “He wasn’t just a figurehead,” one official told the Times. “He continued to plot and plan, to come up with ideas about targets and to communicate those ideas to other senior Qaeda leaders.”
Exit question: If Bin Laden really was deeply in cahoots with ISI, how likely is it as of today that they have access to nuclear material?
Al-Qaida vows revenge for Osama bin Laden's killing
May 7, 2011 BY MAGGIE MICHAEL
CAIRO, Egypt -- Al-Qaida confirmed the killing of Osama bin Laden and vowed revenge, saying Friday that Americans' "happiness will turn to sadness." The statement was the first by the terrorist network since its leader was slain in a U.S. raid on his Pakistani hideout.
The statement, written in typical al-Qaida style and in the name of the organization's General Command, seemed mostly intended to reassure followers that the terrorist group remains intact.
The statement was dated Tuesday, the day after bin Laden's death. Its authenticity could not be independently confirmed, but it was posted on militant Web sites Friday by the al-Fajr Center, al-Qaida's online media distribution network.
"The blood of the holy warrior sheik, Osama bin Laden, God bless him, is too precious to us and to all Muslims to go in vain," the statement said. "We will remain, God willing, a curse chasing the Americans and their agents, following them outside and inside their countries.
"Soon, God willing, their happiness will turn to sadness," it said. "Their blood will be mingled with their tears."
The confirmation by al-Qaida should remove doubt among all but the most die-hard conspiracy theorists that bin Laden is, in fact, dead.
Earlier Friday, hundreds of members of radical Islamic parties protested in several Pakistani cities against the U.S. raid. Many chanted "Osama is alive" and blasted the U.S. for violating the country's sovereignty.
The need to provide proof was behind arguments that the U.S. should release a photo of the slain terrorist leader. President Barack Obama has chosen to withhold the photo.
The statement also opens the way for the group to name a successor to bin Laden. His deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, is now the most prominent figure in the group and a likely contender to take his place.
"Sheik Osama didn't build an organization to die when he dies," the statement read. "The university of faith, Quran and jihad from which bin Laden graduated will not close its doors," it added.
Bin Laden's leadership: The wealth of information pulled from bin Laden's compound has reinforced the strong role he played in planning and directing attacks by al-Qaida and its affiliates in Yemen and Somalia, senior U.S. officials said Friday.
And the data further demonstrate to the U.S. that top al-Qaida commanders and other key insurgents are scattered throughout Pakistan, not just in the rugged border areas, and are being supported and given sanctuary by Pakistanis, a senior defense official said.
U.S. counterterrorism officials have debated how big a role bin Laden and core al-Qaida leaders were playing in the attacks launched by affiliated terrorist groups, particularly al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, which is based in Yemen, and al-Shabab in Somalia.
Information gathered in the compound, officials said, strengthened beliefs that bin Laden was a lot more involved in directing al-Qaida personnel and operations than sometimes thought over the last decade. And it suggests bin Laden was "giving strategic direction" to al-Qaida affiliates in Somalia and Yemen, the defense official said.
Bin Laden's first priority, the official said, was his own security. But the data show that he was far more active in providing guidance and telling affiliated groups in Yemen and Somalia what they should or should not be doing.
Obama and his team knew this is going to happen if Bin Laden is getting killed by the US.
Now this new threat is a perfect excuse to further keep soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq to fight for America's freedom - a war which will never be won by them.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman:
This assumes
Wrong; it is a matter of fact.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman:
''That this didn't happen, along with eye witness accounts differing from official US narrative of events, raises questions. To take US government accounts uncritically at face value, without needing trial of the accused, is to be mentally sheepish.''
I've heard and read everything you said via television and newspaper analysts.
Okay zombie-head, name the newspaper and television analysts who pointed out that the government's accounts don't make sense and that they should be critically analyzed, rather than simply parrot the official line. The last I checked, your harebrained idea that a person should just be killed instantly without a trial, when the capacity otherwise existed to capture said person alive and bring them to trail, was the line that U.S. television talking heads were generally towing, i.e. the anti-thesis of what I said.
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
Speculations and some unanswered questions:
1)Knowing fully well that he was on the MWL of the U.S. imperialists[ how else given the huge number of military bases they have everywhere], it's just surprising that OBL would set up a household[with wives and children next a Pakistani military academy]. Kinda naive it would seem. Makes you wonder if OBL was not just a front for the real decision makers in AQ. Maybe OBL just provided the cash for operations over the years and not much more.
2) The U.S. FBI once said that the evidence against OBL was not very strong. So what gives?
3) Once 9/11 was over and you took the hit for that then just semi-retire and franchise out. In these hi-tech days a cave house somewhere in Yemen--up in the mountains but not penetrable by U.S. bombs would have been a good bet.
4) Why not hang relatively close to Zawahiri outside of Pakistan. OBL ought to know that Pakistan was on the big take from the U.S. with all those billions of dollars shoveled over to them every year. There was always the risk that someone would be willing to sell out for the right price. So why not Afghanistan or even North Korea? Kim hates the U.S. more than anything so he might have listened with some sympathy.
5) Question: how did the CIA manage to set up a "safe house" to monitor OBL for several months. Pale boys in Pakistan will stick out no matter how tanned they are--unless they had some Pakis working for them. Who fed them? Who did their housework? Who paid the electricity and water bills? Who owned the house?
6) Once 9/11 made the Guinness book then that's it. Not much more you can do after that. So how come the focus was not on Saudi--the biggest eunuch in the U.S. harem?
7) Surprised that all this military praise is being heaped on BHO. The guy wouldn't know the difference between a Tec-9 and an AK so what's all this about? AQ would have to thank its lucky stars that it wasn't Hilary in power. No way they could have lived that one down. Imagine a woman bringing down the Master Sheikh. Unbelievable!
7) All I want is for the blanks to be filled in.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Al-Qaida vows revenge for Osama bin Laden's killing
yep, knew the good ole US of A had some plans with digging up a dead 10 years body to kill him again. US Govt = the new al-qaida.
The Death of bin Ladenism By Amir Taheri Published: July 11, 2002
By Toby Harnden in Washington 12:01AM GMT 28 Dec 2001
The recording was dismissed by the Bush administration yesterday as sick propaganda possibly designed to mask the fact the al-Qa'eda leader was already dead.
FOXNEWS.COM HOME > WORLD > NATIONAL Report: Bin Laden Already Dead
Wednesday, [December 26, 2001
Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.
US is in Shite, it NEEDS a problem and it NEEDS to blame someone else AGAIN. Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: I take it you're mad because binny boy exhausted all his tricks of hide-and-go-seek. Well look at it this way, he made the hired killers work much harder with their technology to find him. What more can you ask of him.
You might want to criticize Pakistan for letting this happen. Speaking of which, the billions they do get fom the U.S. will probably flow a while longer.
old man you are too much.
quote:Okay zombie-head, name the newspaper and television analysts who pointed out that the government's accounts don't make sense and that they should be critically analyzed, rather than simply parrot the official line.
Actually Faux News this week pointed out some of the contradictory accounts, but I guess they were just playing politics rather than any real desire for getting to the truth.
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
The Explorer,
RE OBL's residences over the years. Whether he ever lived in a cave or lived out in the open as in Pakistan we really don't know.
But the TV shots of his dwelling he lived in is just standard for people in Africa or Asia with a big household.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by lamin:
The Explorer,
RE OBL's residences over the years. Whether he ever lived in a cave or lived out in the open as in Pakistan we really don't know.
But the TV shots of his dwelling he lived in is just standard for people in Africa or Asia with a big household.
We know he sought refuge in the caves or cave-like structures of Afghanistan, because his videos have shown it. There is also little doubt that he was in Tora Bora, before he escaped into the Pakistani border.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
Actually Faux News this week pointed out some of the contradictory accounts, but I guess they were just playing politics rather than any real desire for getting to the truth.
As far as I know, Fox News and all other major U.S. news outlets have towed the official accounts of the events from day 1, and have only revised the accounts after the government was forced to revise those accounts, in the face of contradictory information and evidence [like the seizure of no weapons found in the compound, that presumably belonged to bin Laden and his associates] coming from Pakistan. Even as I write this, they are parroting the revised versions of government accounts of the raid; I don't consider that independent thought by these U.S. news outlets.
The story went from an intense fire fight, wherein bin Laden was killed, to there being only one person firing a couple of unsuccessful shots, whereupon bin laden used his wife as a human shield [Fox News still tows this line], yet to bin laden looking like he was heading for a weapon when he was shot in the head. The taglines of these stories keep changing, and even then, they continue to contradict information coming out of Pakistan, in terms of eye witness accounts and evidence of material found in the compound in the aftermath of the raid.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
What is the information coming out of Pakistan?
Posted by Arwa (Member # 11172) on :
^ Which Pakistan? The military, the President, the Intelligence sector, the Tribal communities, the Separatists from Balochistan? There never has been "one" Pakistan, and the country was created/hijacked by small elites from India, with the blessing from the British, as a gift because they supported Britain during WW2.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ True, but similar can be said about many countries in Central Asia and in the Middle East! This is why the U.S. government really needs to stop involving themselves in these areas as they seem to be very ignorant of the ethnic and political situations of these nations. Just look at what happened to Iraq! The U.S. did more harm than good regardless of how benevolent their intentions were in getting rid of Saddam Hussein.
Getting back to the topic of Osama Bin Laden...
IF (and this is a big 'if') our forces were to capture Bin Laden alive and do try him for his deeds. He would have been tried in a military tribunal and NOT have our our broke-ass indebted government waste more tax money trying him like he is a mere domestic criminal. He could explain himself all he wants but will be executed anyway. I wish this could have been his fate for all to see around the world but sadly Grumman is right, the administration is too fearful and cowardly of Islamic goons kidnapping and killing people. However, this begs the question who is to stop these goons from doing all this regardless??! I mean even though he's dead and dumped at sea. If any radicals want to kidnap and kill Americans, does one think giving Osama Islamic last rites and dumping in the ocean will stop them??
It's the same argument for releasing photos of his dead body. They already released photos of other people killed in the compound which were all graphic why not a photo of him??
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
''Okay zombie-head, name the newspaper and television analysts who pointed out that the government's accounts don't make sense and that they should be critically analyzed, rather than simply parrot the official line.''
Cnn: Anderson Cooper; John King, and a few other contributors. I don't recall the name on MSNBC. You got me on whether the interpretation is parroting the line. Some of your stuff.
''The last I checked, your harebrained idea that a person should just be killed instantly without a trial, when the capacity otherwise existed to capture said person alive and bring them to trail, was the line that U.S. television talking heads were generally towing, i.e. the anti-thesis of what I said.''
Okay ''at the top of Mt Everest where the oxygen is thin'' point out to me in my comments where I said a person should be killed and show me where I wasn't talking about someone else: the government who sent them and the killers who performed their duties.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Of course Bin Laden should have been arrested and brought to trial!!!!
Any other thug accused of murder etc. gets a FAIR TRIAL in the US; even gets a lawyer if he can't afford one.
Prosecuting Bin Laden in court would have been def the trial of the century - then again who knows with what other kind of scum we'll have to deal in the future.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
"Much of Pakistan's mood can be described as deeply shocked by the 2 May raid on bin Laden's compound by an American Navy SEAL team in the upscale town of Abbotabad".
National tragedy!! But it's not that they're shocked by finding out that their government knew about Bin Laden.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
More good will from U.S friend and ally Pakistan.
Pakistan: Mentally ill Christian charged with "blasphemy," Christian families flee after Muslim mob threats
LAHORE, Pakistan, May 6 (CDN) — Police in Chichawatni, Sahiwal district have charged a mentally ill Christian with “injuring religious feelings” under Pakistan’s widely condemned blasphemy laws.
Three families related to 25-year-old Babar Masih – the only other Christian families in the area – have fled their homes after a Muslim mob threatened to harm them, relatives of the accused told Compass.
Police in Chichawatni, Punjab Province registered the blasphemy case against Masih on Monday (May 2) after arresting him at about 10 p.m. that night. Son of Iqbal Masih in Shakir Colony, Chichawatni Bypass, the young man’s own family handed him over to police because a large number of Muslim clerics had gathered outside their house and demanded that he be turned over to them so that they could “do justice” by killing him, relatives said.
A Muslim neighbor, Rana Sardar, had told Masih’s family that the police should be called so that he could be taken into custody, “otherwise he would be killed by the Muslim clerics who were getting more charged up with every passing moment,” a relative said. With a large number of people gathered at the house when police arrived, Babar Masih was handed over from another gate and immediately put into a police van.
When the clerics saw Masih being put into the police van, they rushed toward it and tried to take hold of him. They continued chasing after the vehicle as it carried him away, giving the three families related to Masih’s immediate family the opportunity to flee from their homes, relatives said. At press time they were still in hiding.
Masih’s brother, Amjad Masih, said that after fleeing from their home, he talked with neighbors who told him that several other neighbors had been pressured by Muslim clerics to go to the police station to provide testimony against the accused.
“These neighbors were of the opinion that they could not refuse to give evidence after the Muslim clerics forced them, telling them that they were coming out of the mosque after prayer when Babar Masih used abusive language against the prophet Muhammad,” Amjad Masih said. “They told me, ‘It is such a sensitive matter that we could not refuse.’”... http://www.compassdirect.org/english/country/pakistan/article_112140.html Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Cnn: Anderson Cooper; John King, and a few other contributors.
Oh come on old man, even you are more critical in your thinking (even though you still believe in the holocau$t religion) than those propagandists. Whether on Libya or Iran those guys simply parrot the Obama (Usrael's) party line.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ LOL You are one of the insane minority who believes in the fairytale propaganda that there wasn't a Holocaust. Come now back to reality will ya?
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Of course Bin Laden should have been arrested and brought to trial!!!!
Any other thug accused of murder etc. gets a FAIR TRIAL in the US; even gets a lawyer if he can't afford one.
Prosecuting Bin Laden in court would have been def the trial of the century - then again who knows with what other kind of scum we'll have to deal in the future.
That's the problem and the point you're missing.
First of all, Bin Laden is not any other thug or murderer he is a terrorist mastermind of mass murder. And Second and more importantly he is NOT a U.S. citizen on the contrary he is a foreign enemy of the U.S. As such he is NOT obligated to the same due process as U.S. citizens! Why should U.S. Constitutional law be applied to him?! It does NOT and it should not. The Navy Seals that shot and killed him had every right to do so!!
I just happened to state that IF he were to be tried, he would have been done so as a war criminal in military tribunal NOT in some federal court with tax-payer appointed lawyers! Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL You are one of the insane minority who believes in the fairytale propaganda that there wasn't a Holocaust.
^ whenever you're ready b!tch, whenever you're ready. Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
vwwvv
quote:Pakistan opposition leader on bin Laden killing: "This is the biggest tragedy in the history of Pakistan after the fall of East Pakistan in 1971" Pakistan: Bin Laden killing 'second biggest' national tragedy http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Aki/English/Security/Pakistan-Bin-Laden-killing-second-biggest-national-tragedy_311983417614.html From the article: "Much of Pakistan's mood can be described as deeply shocked by the 2 May raid on bin Laden's compound by an American Navy SEAL team in the upscale town of Abbotabad". National tragedy!! But it's not that they're shocked by finding out that their government knew about Bin Laden.
Tell the Pakistani Gov to pay back the Billions given to them for the capture or selling out of Ben Laden(they did neither) for ten years,so we can use it to balance the budget or build schools repair roads or sumpin.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
NY Joo paper omits H.Clinton in white house photo because of {Joo law". I thought, based on the western discourse, that it was just the Muslims in the ME who are the intolerant crazies hopelessly out of step with modernity? Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Anguishofbeing you will be reminded the issue in this context wasn't propagandizing, it was who was citicizing the events as they unfolded. Keep it straight airhead.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Those Zyonist mouth pieces cant do anything but propagandize. You've lived on this earth longer than all of us in here put together and yet you still dont know how it works. Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
So you don't agree with them even though they were criticizing the initial reports coming from the administration; and even laid the reports side by side so to speak so one could see the inconsistency? I think you don't know what you want to say.
''You've lived on this earth longer than all of us in here put together and yet you still dont know how it works.''
So which one of you is 10 years old more or less? Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Correction: about two or three. Didn't realize there were so many here until I counted. But my figures may be wrong.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Osama bin Laden denied fair trial, killed arbitrarily: Son
Indo-Asian News Service Washington, May 11, 2011First Published: 10:39 IST(11/5/2011) Last Updated: 10:44 IST(11/5/2011)
Calling US President Barack Obama no better than slain Osama bin Laden, the al Qaeda leader's son has alleged that his father was summarily executed, deprived of a fair trial and denied a family burial.
One of the oldest of Osama's two dozen children, Omar bin Laden who has previously denounced his father's murderous ways, said Tuesday: "As (I) condemned our father, (I) now condemn the president of the United States for ordering the execution of unarmed men and women."
In a lengthy statement given to the New York Times, Omar bin Laden wrote that he has a list of issues with the May 2 US raid on Osama's hideout in Abbottabad, Pakistan that killed his father.
First, he said he and his siblings want proof from Obama that their father is really dead.
"We are not convinced on the available evidence in the absence of dead body, photographs, and video evidence," Omar wrote.
Next, he wants to know "why an unarmed man was not arrested and tried in a court of law so that truth is revealed to the people of the world".
Then Iraqi president Saddam Hussein got trial, he pointed out.
"Not only international law has been blatantly violated, but USA has set a very different example whereby right to have a fair trial, and presumption of innocence until proven guilty by a court of law," Omar wrote.
"We maintain that arbitrary killing is not a solution to political problems," he said.
Omar stressed that he "always disagreed with our father regarding any violence and always sent messages to our father that he must change his ways and that no civilians should be attacked under any circumstances".
He demanded answers in 30 days and said he is putting together a panel of British lawyers.
"Failure to answer these questions will force us to go to international forum for justice such as International Criminal Court and International Court of Justice and UN."
Omar and his mother, Najwa bin Laden, cowrote Growing Up Bin Laden in 2009. They both left Osama and moved to Syria two days before 9/11.
Meanwhile, US Vice President Joe Biden brushed aside Omar's comments.
Asked to respond to claims by Osama bin Laden's sons that the killing of the al Qaeda leader was "illegal", Biden responded with a smile: "Are you kidding?"
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: So you don't agree with them even though they were criticizing the initial reports coming from the administration;
have to agree with jew boy on this one, they only revised the accounts after the government was forced to revise initial accounts when Pakistan started contradicting it. They are now parroting the revised versions of government propaganda line, including the usual Pakistan-bashing. Thats not "independent thought" in my books. Not surprised you see it that way though, you dont know what independent thought means, holocau$t believer. Posted by Mo Ning Min E (Member # 681) on :
Just heard on the BBC that the guy [Eric Holder?]adjudicating on the 'lawfulness' of the summary execution of OBL said it was in line with American values.
This phrase not only shows utter contempt for US citizens [most of whom - I hope - value law and justice] in fact why didn't he just say 'Hollywood values'? It will probably, and fairly, make American prisoners captured throughout the world subject to being slaughtered when taken unarmed.
And more importantly, it made me feel rather ill.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
The official story of bin Laden's death keeps ever changing, one story after another. Here's the latest incarnation:
New details of mission to kill bin Laden released
3:15 PM, Aug 2, 2011
WASHINGTON - There are dramatic new details on exactly what happened during the daring raid that ended in the death of Osama bin Laden.
On the night of May 1, a pair of Black Hawk helicopters, including the one that crashed, unloaded 23 Navy SEALs, a Pakistani-American translator and a dog named Cairo, at bin Laden's secret hide-out.
That translator turned away curious Pakistanis.
"He just told them that there's a security operation going on behind these walls, go back to your homes," Nicholas Schmidle, with the New America Foundation said. "[And] turn your lights off. And that was it. So people did that. They had no reason to think that they were talking to an American."
According to Schmidle's military sources, the SEALs, each carrying a booklet with photos and descriptions of who they could expect to find inside, first killed bin Laden's courier near the guesthouse, then entered the al-Qaida leader's house.
"As they made their way from the first to the second to the third floor, there were metal gates, almost cages, blocking the entrance going up the stairs. I think they thought at this point, 'If there are metal gates blocking each stair, we're onto something,'" he said. "The first SEAL turns to the right, and at the end of the short hallway, he sees a long, rangy individual with a long beard poking his head out the door. And that's bin Laden."
Schmidle's sources say bin Laden was standing behind two of his wives, including his youngest wife, Amal, who was hysterical.
The SEALs feared the women were wearing suicide vests.
"The first SEAL stepped forward, wrapped them in a bear hug, turned them, and pushed them off to the side," Schmidle said.
"He was going to sacrifice his life if they detonated those vests, to save the mission?" NBC's Peter Alexander asked.
"Exactly. As he moved the women to the side, the second SEAL lifted his M4 rifle and first shot [bin Laden] once in the chest, [bin Laden] began falling back, he shot him once in the head, and that was it," Schmidle said.
Nine years, seven months and 20 days after September 11, 2001, the world's most wanted terrorist - code named "Geronimo" - was dead.
But had the SEALs ever considered detaining - not killing - bin Laden?
"The SEALs contend that there was never, that this was not a capture or kill mission. These guys were going in on a kill mission," Schmidle said.
First story, it was a fire fight between the navy seals and an armed courier, and then in bin laden's room, bin Laden tries to use his wife as a human shield whereupon he was shot.
Next story, it was the shooting of an unarmed courier who was reaching out for a weapon, upon entry of navy seals, and then onto bin Laden's room, wherein this time bin Laden not only tries to use his wife as a human shield but also attempts to reach out for a weapon, whereupon we has shot by the navy seals.
And now this story, wherein the unarmed courier is once again shot, and then unto bin Laden's room, wherein this time, not only did the al Qaeda leader not use his wife as a human shield [as opposed to just "standing somewhere behind his two wives"], but also had no weapons on him when he was shot.
Quite an ever changing story for something that was supposed to have been seen REAL TIME by the White House officials, including Obama, when it was taking place. One is making a gamble, if they put too much faith in the words of Washington politicians.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Ever changing indeed. Its like the four gospels all over again.
Posted by Whatbox (Member # 10819) on :
At first thought, I almost can't believe they did this.
quote:Originally posted by Masonic Rebel: This is a bunch of BS!!!!!!!
quote:The White House had been weighing the release of a photo, in part to offer proof that bin Laden was killed during a raid on his compound early Monday. However, officials had cautioned that the photo was gruesome and could prove inflammatory
RELEASE THE PHOTOS LET THE PUBLIC DECIDE WHAT THEY CAN WITHSTAND!!!!!!!!!
My God we aren't babies, we showed the photos of Saddam's Dead Sons and Saddam Hussein Execution video and there was no "National Security Risk".
You know what, that is interesting. That a dead President / ruler would cause less a stir or less fear of a stir than a dead Bin Laden.
Then again, the Political leader was an at times savage leader of people living as a country while Laden was a leader of a terrorist organization.
Which is more likely to insite violence -- terrorists or civilians? And which is more likely to be cared about by people to where they will insite violent sentiments over them -- BL, at least by Terrorists.
Also, I like about this that people will need to get over their ancient need for visual scapegoat-offing.
Edit: someone might comment I imagine "kina let's you know how shitty that leader is".
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
Actually Faux News this week pointed out some of the contradictory accounts, but I guess they were just playing politics rather than any real desire for getting to the truth.
As far as I know, Fox News and all other major U.S. news outlets have towed the official accounts of the events from day 1, and have only revised the accounts after the government was forced to revise those accounts, in the face of contradictory information and evidence [like the seizure of no weapons found in the compound, that presumably belonged to bin Laden and his associates] coming from Pakistan. Even as I write this, they are parroting the revised versions of government accounts of the raid; I don't consider that independent thought by these U.S. news outlets.
The story went from an intense fire fight, wherein bin Laden was killed, to there being only one person firing a couple of unsuccessful shots, whereupon bin laden used his wife as a human shield [Fox News still tows this line], yet to bin laden looking like he was heading for a weapon when he was shot in the head. The taglines of these stories keep changing, and even then, they continue to contradict information coming out of Pakistan, in terms of eye witness accounts and evidence of material found in the compound in the aftermath of the raid.
Who could have seen this coming? Newflash [yeah right]: the story of a SEAL involved in the Bin Laden assassination serves as yet another contradiction to the ever-changing "official" story of the assassination. Of course, typical of it, the U.S. government is now actively pursuing the prosecution of the SEAL who spilled the beans, so to speak. How dare the SEAL reveal anything that will contradict the U.S. government's "official" version, thereby exposing not only the lack credibility of the U.S. government, but also its truly anti-democratic and anti-proletarian actions?
Mr Bin Laden could have been brought alive, have his day in court, compelled to face the public and explain his alleged actions, surrounding "terrorism", particularly the 9/11 tragic events? But no; the U.S. government had to instantly have him executed. Apparently they have something to hide that they feared any trial of Bin Laden will expose to the American public and the world!
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
The Explorer:
''Of course, typical of it, the U.S. government is now actively pursuing the prosecution of the SEAL who spilled the beans, so to speak. How dare the SEAL reveal anything that will contradict the U.S. government's "official" version, thereby exposing not only the lack credibility of the U.S. government, but also its truly anti-democratic and anti-proletarian actions?''
Have you been somewhere trying to figure out why governments, uh, excuse me, in this case the U.S. Government, does what it does. You know the U.S. is capable of dirt and you still want to know why they do it.
'''Mr Bin Laden could have been brought alive, have his day in court, compelled to face the public and explain his alleged actions, surrounding "terrorism", particularly the 9/11 tragic events?''
Bin Laden said after the 9/11 attacks, paraphrasing here, ''there will be no peace for the U.S. until there is peace in Palestine.'' How many times can he repeat this in a court of law and have any sympathy from the people who want him killed because of his actions? If he was in a court of law his statement will continue to fall on deaf ears, not because of the truthfulness of his Palestinian comment but because of his actions--actions that landed him in the court in the first place, not his political views.
''Apparently they have something to hide that they feared any trial of Bin Laden will expose to the American public and the world!''
Care to reveal what's on your mind about this?
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: The Explorer:
''Of course, typical of it, the U.S. government is now actively pursuing the prosecution of the SEAL who spilled the beans, so to speak. How dare the SEAL reveal anything that will contradict the U.S. government's "official" version, thereby exposing not only the lack credibility of the U.S. government, but also its truly anti-democratic and anti-proletarian actions?''
Have you been somewhere trying to figure out why governments, uh, excuse me, in this case the U.S. Government, does what it does. You know the U.S. is capable of dirt and you still want to know why they do it.
That question in the quote is a rhetorical one, in case you did not get the drift. It's obvious to any intelligent being that what I'm doing is teaching not trying to "figure it out".
quote:'''Mr Bin Laden could have been brought alive, have his day in court, compelled to face the public and explain his alleged actions, surrounding "terrorism", particularly the 9/11 tragic events?''
Bin Laden said after the 9/11 attacks, paraphrasing here, ''there will be no peace for the U.S. until there is peace in Palestine.'' How many times can he repeat this in a court of law and have any sympathy from the people who want him killed because of his actions? If he was in a court of law his statement will continue to fall on deaf ears, not because of the truthfulness of his Palestinian comment but because of his actions--actions that landed him in the court in the first place, not his political views.
You are the only one speaking to the need for sympathy, distracting from the straightforward point: "due process"...which is considered logical and important in a truly democratic society.
quote: ''Apparently they have something to hide that they feared any trial of Bin Laden will expose to the American public and the world!''
Care to reveal what's on your mind about this?
No. It's pretty self-explanatory.
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
The Explorer:
'' "due process"...which is considered logical and important in a truly democratic society.'' ''
There are those in the U.S. who will agree with that. There are those in the U.S. government in intelligence who will circumvent that process--with the government's blessing--and still leave the facsimile copy intact. Can you agree the facsimile is still intact?
The Explorer:
''Apparently they have something to hide that they feared any trial of Bin Laden will expose to the American public and the world!''
Me: ''Care to reveal what's on your mind about this?''
The Explorer: ''No. It's pretty self-explanatory.''
What is? The facsimile Due Process copy?
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: The Explorer:
'' "due process"...which is considered logical and important in a truly democratic society.'' ''
There are those in the U.S. who will agree with that. There are those in the U.S. government in intelligence who will circumvent that process--with the government's blessing--and still leave the facsimile copy intact. Can you agree the facsimile is still intact?
Not sure what you mean by "facsimile copy intact", but I'll just make this simple: The U.S. government violates due process, which is (due process that is) a signature of democracy!
quote: The Explorer:
''Apparently they have something to hide that they feared any trial of Bin Laden will expose to the American public and the world!''
Me: ''Care to reveal what's on your mind about this?''
The Explorer: ''No. It's pretty self-explanatory.''
What is? The facsimile Due Process copy?
The sentence you were quoting is "what is" self-explanatory.
PS: Maybe you want me to get into details of what they could possibly want to be hiding, I gather? That's precisely it; whatever they are hiding can only be tentatively defined, well because, they are bent on hiding it. However, one can make a decent guess of what those things could be, if one studies the close relationship Bin Laden reportedly used to have with the U.S. government and its intelligence community. Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
The ExpLorer:
''Not sure what you mean by "facsimile copy intact", but I'll just make this simple: The U.S. government violates due process, which is (due process that is) a signature of democracy!''
A facsimile copy is one used in lieu of the original. Bin Laden got the facsimile copy because it was determined he didn't need Due Process. In other words a Due Process copy would have involved explaining it to him: a trip to the U.S. to stand trial and give him a chance to explain his position. The Seals had no intention of giving Bin Laden anything except death. The Seals probably had orders to eliminate Laden at their discretion. Meaning who ever gets to the top of the steps first kill him immediately. Most Seals are probably killers anyway.
''PS: Maybe you want me to get into details of what they could possibly want to be hiding, I gather? That's precisely it; whatever they are hiding can only be tentatively defined, well because, they are bent on hiding it. However, one can make a decent guess of what those things could be, if one studies the close relationship Bin Laden reportedly used to have with the U.S. government and its intelligence community.''
Don't forget Bin Laden was in hiding nearly 10 years. If he had anything like an ace up his sleeve with damaging information he would have revealed it before he was killed in my opinion. Is it possible of all the CDs and maybe Dvds that were confiscated that some will have the lowdown on the U.S. government's dealing with him in times past? It may well be true. However, that information, if sensational, will forever be lost now that it is in government hands. So if Bin Laden had the goods on the U.S. and he really wanted to make the U.S. pay then he squandered a golden opportunity by remaining silent all these years.
But what about the Seal and the book. I'm sure military analysts and the hired guns are going over it right now (advance copy somehow) trying to see how much consideration one of their own should have. If perchance the operation revealer has gone too far that it gets an operative or two killed then he himself may well be on the list. If that happens then he didn't absorb the rules well at all.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman:
A facsimile copy is one used in lieu of the original. Bin Laden got the facsimile copy because it was determined he didn't need Due Process.
It cannot be a "facsimile copy", if it violates the law of due process. Your logic is bizarre.
quote:The Seals had no intention of giving Bin Laden anything except death. The Seals probably had orders to eliminate Laden at their discretion. Meaning who ever gets to the top of the steps first kill him immediately. Most Seals are probably killers anyway.
Nope, they were ordered to execute him. That's what conflicting "official" stories, along with this revelation from the participating SEAL demonstrate. Take your head out of the sand for once.
quote:Don't forget Bin Laden was in hiding nearly 10 years. If he had anything like an ace up his sleeve with damaging information he would have revealed it before he was killed in my opinion.
Why would Bin Laden want to emphasize his former romance with the U.S. government, when he was busy trying to polish his image to his base, as America's number 1 and most dangerous enemy?
Secondly, whatever endeavor he partnered up with the U.S. government would not be considered "damaging" to him, as he is a participant, but it could be damaging in the eyes of the American public.
On American soil, Mr. Bin Laden would have been mindful of his status as largely that of a despised personality, unlike the one he was cultivating for his base, and so, would feel that he has nothing to lose but gain by divulging material that would only be "damaging" from the American public's standpoint.
quote:Is it possible of all the CDs and maybe Dvds that were confiscated that some will have the lowdown on the U.S. government's dealing with him in times past? It may well be true. However, that information, if sensational, will forever be lost now that it is in government hands. So if Bin Laden had the goods on the U.S. and he really wanted to make the U.S. pay then he squandered a golden opportunity by remaining silent all these years.
The romantic relationship between Bin Laden and the U.S. government before the falling out isn't exactly a secret to the outside world anymore, except in America. So, there isn't much to be silent about, except for, well, if you are the U.S. government and you want to keep the mostly reclusive Americans as uninformed as possible about your "dirty laundry". Plus, the U.S. government has another reason to execute Bin Laden: make an example of him, i.e. if you mess with the U.S. government, you'll be eliminated! That's the same reason due process was not upheld for American citizens who were also branded as "terrorists". And at this moment, making an example of this "whistle-blowing" SEAL is underway.
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Me:
''A facsimile copy is one used in lieu of the original. Bin Laden got the facsimile copy because it was determined he didn't need Due Process.''
Explorer:
''It cannot be a "facsimile copy", if it violates the law of due process. Your logic is bizarre.''
And it took you several posts to see the dark humor didn't it.
Me:
''The Seals had no intention of giving Bin Laden anything except death. The Seals probably had orders to eliminate Laden at their discretion. Meaning who ever gets to the top of the steps first kill him immediately. Most Seals are probably killers anyway.''
Explorer:
''Nope, they were ordered to execute him. That's what conflicting "official" stories, along with this revelation from the participating SEAL demonstrate. Take your head out of the sand for once.''
I don't have a clue why you are having trouble with what I said in the paragraph above yours.
Explorer, these are your words on 2 September:
PS: ''Maybe you want me to get into details of what they could possibly want to be hiding, I gather? That's precisely it; whatever they are hiding can only be tentatively defined, well because, they are bent on hiding it. However, one can make a decent guess of what those things could be, if one studies the close relationship Bin Laden reportedly used to have with the U.S. government and its intelligence community.''
Me:
''Don't forget Bin Laden was in hiding nearly 10 years. If he had anything like an ace up his sleeve with damaging information he would have revealed it before he was killed in my opinion.''
Now you:
''Why would Bin Laden want to emphasize his former romance with the U.S. government, when he was busy trying to polish his image to his base, as America's number 1 and most dangerous enemy?
''Secondly, whatever endeavor he partnered up with the U.S. government would not be considered "damaging" to him, as he is a participant, but it could be damaging in the eyes of the American public.''
I have to be the bearer of comprehension news for you: you should realize I am in agreement on this. It was brought about by the post you made on Sep. 2
''The romantic relationship between Bin Laden and the U.S. government before the falling out isn't exactly a secret to the outside world anymore, except in America. So, there isn't much to be silent about, except for, well, if you are the U.S. government and you want to keep the mostly reclusive Americans as uninformed as possible about your "dirty laundry". Plus, the U.S. government has another reason to execute Bin Laden: make an example of him, i.e. if you mess with the U.S. government, you'll be eliminated! That's the same reason due process was not upheld for American citizens who were also branded as "terrorists". And at this moment, making an example of this "whistle-blowing" SEAL is underway.''
Well I'll be damn. How did you come to this truth.
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You have got to be kidding me! You lucky, lucky devils!
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