posted
Ki$$, Most would date the middle ages from the end of the Roman Empire to say 1500. The period is usually divided into three periods, the early middle ages, high middle ages and late middle ages. James Westfall Thompson's excellent book on the period dates it from 300-1500. There is some variation on when these periods began but roughly you could say that the early middle ages occured between 450-1000, the high middle ages between 1000-1350 and the late middle ages between 1350 and 1500.
Much of it depends on what part of Europe you are talking about.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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There terms you are referring to are divisions of European history.
Ancient history was everything before the fall of the Roman empire in the 5th century C.E. The middle ages started in the 5th century C.E. and ended at the end of the Renaissance in the 16th or early 17th century C.E. Then came our modern period.
*Dark Ages* is sometimes used to refer to the early middle ages, after the fall of the Roman empire. I think it goes until the 9th or 10th century C.E. It was called that because there was a great lack of literature written, a lack of cultural progress (art, music, etc.) Compared to all that was generated during the Roman Empire, that is.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
i think I know what she is after. Ki$$, the expansion of Islam began around 632 and ended roughly about the year 1000. Much of the classical knowledge of Greek and Roman times was preserved by Muslims and reintroduced into Europe, mostly through Spain starting in the early 12th century. Catholic clerics like Peter Abelard were able to rediscover much of this work with the help of both Muslims and Jews in Spain. In terms of expanision Islam over ran almost all of Spain but they were defeated in their efforts to move into France. Under the 'Recoquista' the Spanish eventually drove the muslims out of Spain. This period ended in 1492 under the leadership of Ferdinand and Isabella. Most historians want to put the 'Golden Age' of Islam as that period of expansion ending in about 1000.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
How do you define *golden?* What is happening that you are looking for?
Spread of Islam? Number of Muslims? Number of Muslim countries? Literature achievements? Art? Math achievements? Science?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Sounds like Islamic propaganda to me. The Golden Age of Islam is important and should be taught. The question becomes how much of it should be taught in a class which must cover a huge amount of material in a short period of time? I would give it no more than a unit in a class like that. We simply lack the time to teach everything we would like to cover in detail. Choices must be made concerning how to cull material. Those areas important to the development of western civilization are more important here in the west than the Islamic Golden Age.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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Apparently that stems from a controversial history book that was *piloted* for a year in that class curriculum. It received a lot of negative reviews from parents...
I don't know all the facts, though.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I think interesting things occur in all time periods Ki$$. I just wish we had more time in our educational system to teach it to more people in greater depth. Many people simply are not interested in history and in this new technical age we are in it often gets put on the back burner. It is very difficult when you have to teach a class coverning 5000 years of human history in a short period of time. Most people, who are not history majors, learn history on their own. I encourage people to watch the history channel (though they sometimes show some real crapola) and Masterpiece theater. You must go and dig it out on your own.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I doubt you would fing and *facts* in that book....
so what happened in the middles ages?
did europeans know how to eat potatoes, other than raw? did they have toilets? did they have books? did they have libabry? did htye have hospital? did they have postal systems? did they have a proper legal system? a law and court system?
let 4got about the "barbaric" saxons, and vikings, and celtics, and what ever there was...
quote:Originally posted by Ki$$7eaven: they teach you of Anceient Greek, Ancient Egyptian, Romans.... then they jump from that to the Reisance...
they miss the whole "dark age" or "middle ages" as if nothing happenes...
And so then go onto the British EMipire, Columbus, and so on and forth, to american histrory...and WW!!...
We learned about the middle ages in school.
The biggest thing was feudalism.
And lost of unrest. Lots of people invading different countries, the Islamic invasions in the 7th and 8th centuries. The fact Catholic priests were some of the only people who could read and write, and consequently they held most of the power. The fact that trade and commerce fell apart over long distances because of constant robberies.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ki$$7eaven: I doubt you would fing and *facts* in that book....
so what happened in the middles ages?
did europeans know how to eat potatoes, other than raw? did they have toilets? did they have books? did they have libabry? did htye have hospital? did they have postal systems? did they have a proper legal system? a law and court system?
let 4got about the "barbaric" saxons, and vikings, and celtics, and what ever there was...
was there any civilisation then....
What is with you and raw potatoes? Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I wish that too horem, that they only tuaght us better.. the reason why many pple dont find it interesting... cos the "processed" history we are tuaght is so boring indeed....
only if i knew the truth I would have taken a keen interest.....
com'on people can you answer my previous thread,,, i wan some answere b4 i post sumthing,,, i dont have much time...but i wana post b4 a leave...
quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: I think interesting things occur in all time periods Ki$$. I just wish we had more time in our educational system to teach it to more people in greater depth. Many people simply are not interested in history and in this new technical age we are in it often gets put on the back burner. It is very difficult when you have to teach a class coverning 5000 years of human history in a short period of time. Most people, who are not history majors, learn history on their own. I encourage people to watch the history channel (though they sometimes show some real crapola) and Masterpiece theater. You must go and dig it out on your own.
622? = the beginning of the Islamic era- but also, for Muhammad and the Muslims, a new way of life.
1286 ='Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan succeeded to the caliphate
1324 - 1342 =during it the Arab empire reached its greatest extent
10th Centuray = After their forays into France were blunted by Charles Martel, the Muslims in Spain had begun to focus their whole attention on what they called al-Andalus, southern Spain (Andalusia), and to build there a civilization far superior to anything Spain had ever known. Reigning with wisdom and justice, they treated Christians and Jews with tolerance, with the result that many embraced Islam. They also improved trade and agriculture, patronized the arts, made valuable contributions to science, and established Cordoba as the most sophisticated city in Europe. [b]
By the tenth century, Cordoba could boast of a population of some 500,000, compared to about 38,000 in Paris.[b] According to the chronicles of the day, the city had 700 mosques, some 60,000 palaces, and 70 libraries - one reportedly housing 500,000 manuscripts and employing a staff of researchers, illuminators, and book binders. Cordoba also had some 900 public baths, Europe's first street lights and, five miles outside the city, the caliphal residence, Madinat al-Zahra. A complex of marble, stucco, ivory, and onyx, Madinat al-Zahra took forty years to build, cost close to one-third of Cordoba's revenue, and was, until destroyed in the eleventh century, one of the wonders of the age. Its restoration, begun in the early years of this century, is still under way.
1384 = Harun al-Rashid caliph, 'Abbasid period
1429 = al-Mamun, son of Harun al-Rashid died,,,
The Umayyads, however, did manage to achieve a degree of stability, particularly after 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan succeeded to the caliphate in 685. Like the Umayyads who preceded him, 'Abd al-Malik was forced to devote a substantial part of his reign to political problems. But he also introduced much needed reforms. He directed the cleaning and reopening of the canals that irrigated the Tigris-Euphrates Valley - a key to the prosperity of Mesopotamia since the time of the Sumerians - introduced the use of the Indian water buffalo in the riverine marshes, and minted a standard coinage which replaced the Byzantine and Sassanid coins, until then the sole currencies in circulation. 'Abd al-Malik's organization of government agencies was also important; it established a model for the later elaborate bureaucracies of the 'Abbasids and their successor states. There were specific agencies charged with keeping pay records; others concerned themselves with the collection of taxes. 'Abd al-Malik established a system of postal routes to expedite his communications throughout the far flung empire. Most important of all, he introduced Arabic as the language of administration, replacing Greek and Pahlavi.
During the Golden Age Muslim scholars also made important and original contributions to mathematics, astronomy, medicine, and chemistry. They collected and corrected previous astronomical data, built the world's first observatory, and developed the astrolabe, an instrument that was once called "a mathematical jewel." In medicine they experimented with diet, drugs, surgery, and anatomy, and in chemistry, an outgrowth of alchemy, isolated and studied a wide variety of minerals and compounds.
Important advances in agriculture were also made in the Golden Age. The 'Abbasids preserved and improved the ancient network of wells, underground canals, and waterwheels, introduced new breeds of livestock, hastened the spread of cotton, and, from the Chinese, learned the art of making paper, a key to the revival of learning in Europe in the Middle Ages.
The Golden Age also, little by little, transformed the diet of medieval Europe by introducing such plants as plums, artichokes, apricots, cauliflower, celery, fennel, squash, pumpkins, and eggplant, as well as rice, sorghum, new strains of wheat, the date palm, and sugarcane.
posted
renaissance n 1: the period of European history at the close of the Middle Ages and the rise of the modern world; a cultural rebirth from the 14th through the middle of the 17th centuries [syn: Renaissance] 2: the revival of learning and culture [syn: rebirth, Renaissance, renascence]
============================= Susan, you didnt add anything
(1)Mediaeval Christian Europeans were not keen on the Hindu-Arabic numbers and declared them the work of Satan! His major work is entitled "Kitab al-jabr w'al-muqabalah" (restoration and balancing) whose title gives us the word Algebra. Courtesy of an Arabic book collector in Muslim Spain and the adventurer El Cid, the books were translated into Latin, and hit renaissance Italy like tactical nuclear culture shock. They couldn't speak Arabic, of course, so his name came out as "Algorismus". His name (misspelled again!) has gone into mathematics and computerspeak as Algorithm; for a step by step process for performing computations.Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
lol, i was just reading your post again.....
quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: [ It was called that because there was a great lack of literature written, a lack of cultural progress (art, music, etc.) Compared to all that was generated during the Roman Empire, that is. [/QB]
during the Islamic Empire, you mean, we can now safely say, without any comment from fran&horehmb
Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Obviously, the Islamic civilization looks very pleasing when you compare it to the European Dark Ages. This does not necessarily mean that the Islamic civilization was a great civilization. This simply means that the Islamic civilization was not as rotten as its European Dark Age counterpart.
Allow me to present a few true examples to illustrate my point regarding how Muslims of that era did so little to improve human life, even though, they controlled a large portion of the global power and wealth for almost a millennium.
As you may know, the earliest known treatise on Algebra is credited to Diophantus of Alexandria in 3rd century A.D. However, it was a Muslim named Kharazmi from Persia, who for the first time used the Arabic language (the official language of the time) to write a book called Algebra. What did Muslims do with Algebra, anyway? The answer is that they just introduced the writing down of calculations in place of using the abacus. Surprised perhaps? Despite having the knowledge of Algebra for centuries and they did not achieve any significant accomplishments towards improving quality of life.
On the other hand, when the West got hold of Algebra, it was Isaac Newton of England and Libnitz from Germany who invented and developed Calculus out of Algebra. With the newly invented Calculus and its mathematical outcomes, the secular West managed to send Man to the Moon; space crafts to distant planets, and space probes beyond our solar system. Over the centuries, it was the West that came up with Linear Algebra and its pattern in Graphs, Matrices, and Subspaces. Having their hands on chemistry, Muslims did not do much with it either. Nevertheless, in the West, chemistry was used to discover over 100 chemical elements which make up everything in this universe, including us. Furthermore, it was the West which came up with organic chemistry and the science of Pharmaceutical with its miraculous drugs and medications. Without Western ingenuity and creativity the Islamic Golden Age would only be one step above the Dark Ages of Europe. Hardly surprising, when its followers were brought up to believe that “paradise is under the shade of the sword”.
Please know that the stars of that golden age were men that did not believe in Islam and were branded as apostates by Islamic scholars. The fact that these men could speak so freely in Islamic countries is proof that the rulers in those days were not under the power of the Mosque and therefore allowed people freely to criticize even Islam. This is precisely the reason that during the Middle ages Islamic countries were more advanced. At the same time Europe was being strangled in the grips of a repressive Church, which explains why the middle Ages of Europe are called dark Ages.
Now it is ironic that you want to take credit for the contribution of the very men that did not believe in Islam and were dejected as heretics by the Muslims clerics. This is as ridiculous as the Church taking credit for Galileo, Copernicus and Jordano Bruno.
Islam is not scientific as it never allows doubt. Doubt is one of the worst possible sins in Islam. But science is built on the foundations of doubt. A scientist is never a believer, for to believe in any thing means to accept facts without verification. A scientist is always a skeptic, always a doubter. Does this apply to Islam? Islam demands that we accept what the koran says, what the hadiths say, 100%. There is no question for any doubt. No debate. No questioning accepted of the basic beliefs. Any one daring to do so is promptly silenced for fear it might be heretical.
May be religions like Buddhism, Jainism, Confucianism, Taoism and Hinduism, which allow and even encourage dissent & free thought can claim to be scientific but certainly not Islam, Christianity or Judaism which depend on revelations and blind belief, and especially Islam which stifles intellectual enquiry at the pain of death & punishment, is never scientific and can never claim to be one.
Posts: 524 | Registered: Dec 2005
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First, even if Muslims didn't go very far with algebra, it's still an important contribution. Einstein, for example, couldn't get his head around quantum mechanics, which are continually proven these days and the basis of modern-day physics....his theories, while brilliant, have been surpassed now. But without Einstein, where would we be?
Second, even if these inventors/scholars were unbelievers, they were still in a Muslim culture. Galileo was *definitely* considered a heritic for his time...but he was still inherently Christian.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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This is just typical of people like you, I was waiting for a response like that.... cos i knew it was enivatable....
people like you, infact a good majority of "westerner", will deny it in any possible way they can...
your "sources" are all over the place...taught everywhere.... have you ever tried looking at alternative sources? like buying the book i recommmend? or how about the "Zionism: the enemies of the jews"?
i didnt think you wud, y wud you? ur happy to beleive the *crapola* your getting, and it makes you fulfilled... why challege your beliefs.......
Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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Islam will bring poverty and will lead to disaster of economic system unless checked. Early prosperity of Arabs was based on Islamic looting of rich neighborhoods. That was the time when Islam boosted a strong army because of the unity it could install among its followers. In today’s world strength is dependant on scientific invention and unless Islam adopts science and technology as their primary focus by abandoning Madrasa and Koranic teaching, there is no way, there will be any prosperity be seen in Islamic world and poor Muslims will continue to immigrate in Kafirland!
Science does not pretend to have answers to all human questions. Science has its own modus operandi and does not concern itself with things that are not verifiable through scientific means. It is not up to science to speculate on supernatural and spirituality. But science per se, is not tyrannical. Scientists may not agree with your views but they will never jail you, torture you or behead you for believing in what they regard scientific heresies. In the midst of the most scientific societies, you are allowed to believe in, and even preach, hocus-pocus and do not have to fear for your life. It is Islam that claims monopoly of the truth, jails its dissidents, tortures them and beheads them. What would befall to a Muslim scientist if he dares to say Jinns are fairytale, Muhammad did not split the moon and Mi'raj (the alleged ascension of Muhammad to heaven riding on a winged horsy) is ridiculous?
What has been the contribution of Islam to science? Nothing! Islam has been a hindrance to science. The few scientists who were born in Islamic countries and gave birth to what now Muslims claim to be "Islamic science", were all apostates and unbelievers. Some of them, like Razi, ridiculed religions and called the prophets, "billy goats" and "charlatans". The quartets of Khayyam, the great poet/mathematician, is full of ridicules of the Quran and its epistemology. Others, like Ibn Sina and Ibn Rushd were denounced as heretics and often were on the move to escape persecution. Whatever these scientists planted with their "heads" was nipped in the bud by true Muslims like Al Ghazali and Rumi who followed their "hearts". Islam put an end to science and scientific quest. Rather than investigating the causes of the natural phenomena, everything was explained as the "will of God" and the researchers were mocked.
Posts: 524 | Registered: Dec 2005
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622? = the beginning of the Islamic era- but also, for Muhammad and the Muslims, a new way of life.
1286 ='Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan succeeded to the caliphate
1324 - 1342 =during it the Arab empire reached its greatest extent
10th Centuray = After their forays into France were blunted by Charles Martel, the Muslims in Spain had begun to focus their whole attention on what they called al-Andalus, southern Spain (Andalusia), and to build there a civilization far superior to anything Spain had ever known. Reigning with wisdom and justice, they treated Christians and Jews with tolerance, with the result that many embraced Islam. They also improved trade and agriculture, patronized the arts, made valuable contributions to science, and established Cordoba as the most sophisticated city in Europe. [b]
By the tenth century, Cordoba could boast of a population of some 500,000, compared to about 38,000 in Paris.[b] According to the chronicles of the day, the city had 700 mosques, some 60,000 palaces, and 70 libraries - one reportedly housing 500,000 manuscripts and employing a staff of researchers, illuminators, and book binders. Cordoba also had some 900 public baths, Europe's first street lights and, five miles outside the city, the caliphal residence, Madinat al-Zahra. A complex of marble, stucco, ivory, and onyx, Madinat al-Zahra took forty years to build, cost close to one-third of Cordoba's revenue, and was, until destroyed in the eleventh century, one of the wonders of the age. Its restoration, begun in the early years of this century, is still under way.
1384 = Harun al-Rashid caliph, 'Abbasid period
1429 = al-Mamun, son of Harun al-Rashid died,,,
The Umayyads, however, did manage to achieve a degree of stability, particularly after 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan succeeded to the caliphate in 685. Like the Umayyads who preceded him, 'Abd al-Malik was forced to devote a substantial part of his reign to political problems. But he also introduced much needed reforms. He directed the cleaning and reopening of the canals that irrigated the Tigris-Euphrates Valley - a key to the prosperity of Mesopotamia since the time of the Sumerians - introduced the use of the Indian water buffalo in the riverine marshes, and minted a standard coinage which replaced the Byzantine and Sassanid coins, until then the sole currencies in circulation. 'Abd al-Malik's organization of government agencies was also important; it established a model for the later elaborate bureaucracies of the 'Abbasids and their successor states. There were specific agencies charged with keeping pay records; others concerned themselves with the collection of taxes. 'Abd al-Malik established a system of postal routes to expedite his communications throughout the far flung empire. Most important of all, he introduced Arabic as the language of administration, replacing Greek and Pahlavi.
During the Golden Age Muslim scholars also made important and original contributions to mathematics, astronomy, medicine, and chemistry. They collected and corrected previous astronomical data, built the world's first observatory, and developed the astrolabe, an instrument that was once called "a mathematical jewel." In medicine they experimented with diet, drugs, surgery, and anatomy, and in chemistry, an outgrowth of alchemy, isolated and studied a wide variety of minerals and compounds.
Important advances in agriculture were also made in the Golden Age. The 'Abbasids preserved and improved the ancient network of wells, underground canals, and waterwheels, introduced new breeds of livestock, hastened the spread of cotton, and, from the Chinese, learned the art of making paper, a key to the revival of learning in Europe in the Middle Ages.
The Golden Age also, little by little, transformed the diet of medieval Europe by introducing such plants as plums, artichokes, apricots, cauliflower, celery, fennel, squash, pumpkins, and eggplant, as well as rice, sorghum, new strains of wheat, the date palm, and sugarcane.
that enough for now... im sure susan can add loads more with her minor.... c ya...
refresh!
we dont want islamic history to be buried away do we now... lets all appreciate what we have today, and remember why it was all possible Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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Dark ages was when everybody have dark hair an some middelage was dark ...just look at my pic you will see i'm rigth Posts: 1223 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2005
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