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Hello all, I would love it if someone would explain the Egy male mindset in regards to 'wife'. What is the difference to them between 'slave-whore' and 'wife'? They seem to expect unquestioning blob-like obedience, 'respect'(blind-obedience) and to be 'taken care' of like a paraplegic two year old (and their responses are on par with this age). If I had only one example of this petulant, self-serving attitude then I wouldn't be asking but GOOD GOD what is wrong with these so-called men!?
Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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Why don't you post this on the Relationships section?It would get replies quicker.This probably doesn't have to do much with religion.
Posts: 3833 | From: here,there,everywhere | Registered: Nov 2007
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Sorry Sash, I put it on the wrong one and can't figure out how to move it...
Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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If any western women can actually nail the mindset of an Egyptian man who acts this way then it doesn't matter where you post this as it will always belong in the 'Miracles and Rapture' section
Steph, I cannot explain it but I am damn sure I will never be party to it. I never get involved with the dudes here as I cannot stand the way they think about me as a a woman. I would rather die like Mrs Haversham than be treated this way
Does it matter what section it is in to reply? Are the rules that stringent? Nah... FREEDOM Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH: Hello all, I would love it if someone would explain the Egy male mindset in regards to 'wife'. What is the difference to them between 'slave-whore' and 'wife'? They seem to expect unquestioning blob-like obedience, 'respect'(blind-obedience) and to be 'taken care' of like a paraplegic two year old (and their responses are on par with this age). If I had only one example of this petulant, self-serving attitude then I wouldn't be asking but GOOD GOD what is wrong with these so-called men!?
If you and your hubby aren't living in the same house 24/7, what would your marriage be like if you had to live together?
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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We are living together?! That is the problem, he keeps demanding to be 'taken care' of when we both work and contribute equally....it isn't isolated to him either, have heard similar stories from other wives...
Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH: We are living together?! That is the problem, he keeps demanding to be 'taken care' of when we both work and contribute equally....it isn't isolated to him either, have heard similar stories from other wives...
I was recently told, think of them all as 9 year old boys wanting to be pampered. It hit home when mine was wearing Batman undies with 'Caped Crusader' plastered across the bum.
Not all are like this and it's not so much an Egy man thing as a man thing really, men never really stop being little boys when they want their own way and sulk when they don't get it.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Steph... It isn't isolated, I know women who work all day while their Egy hubbies spend all day snoring and then at night when they are trying to sleep their dude is calling their name for a hot drink to be made.
OMFG, he would have that kettle wrapped around his head.
MD, I hope your honeymood period lasts and that you don't resent being at his beck and call 20 years down the road when it is moreexpected than appreciated.
Ayisha.... you are also correct, it isn't isolated to Egypt, it is a global thing. I dated a dude who didn't know ho many sugars he had in his tea as his mum made all his drinks. Yeah, he soon learned.... they act like kids so treat them like kids. 'make your own fecking drink or die of thirst'
Sorry, I am way too intolerant of this nonsense as I am the only girl in the family and if I had allowed myself to be a skivvy I would still be one today, I soon taught them I was an equal!!!
EEEK. I am shocked how women want to wake in a morning knowing they are nothing other than unpaid maids.
I am on a roll!!!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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Steph I think it's down to the mothers who raised these men. If you are brought up with your mother running up your backside and doing every little thing for you then it's only natural to assume you will want your wife to take over where she left off. My advice is to nip it in the bud, tell him to get off his lazy ass and pull his weight. Stop making his dinner at night, don't wash his clothes. Tell him you have a headache 35 nights in a row.I would.
I just want to add when I say "these men" I am not referring to Egyptian men I am talking about lazy mummies boys in general. I am married to an Egyptian and he is by no means perfect but he does more than his fair share at home. His mother taught him how to cook, iron clothes and take care of himself in general. She worked full time until she retired so most likely didnt have time to run behind her son picking up his socks. I couldnt be on with some idle man who expected me to be his servant. It becomes doubly hard when you have children so you need to give him a kick up the backside now and make the changes necessary otherwise you're going to have problems. Remind him respect in a two way street
Posts: 500 | From: United Arab Emirates | Registered: Jul 2008
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Problem with my 'man' (to stretch the word to breaking point) is that he grew up with a stay-at-home mom and a maid or two. (he calls one a 'nanny') When he moved here he expected me to pay my way+'take care' of him(be a slave). I didn't go with it and he throws temper tantrums like a really tall two year old.GGGGGGGGRRRRRR so not worth it!
Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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Unfortunately Steph I can relate. Everytime I go to bed to sleep or watch TV he says that he has to follow me and have sex. The batteries were dead in the remote for the TV and he put the dead batteries in his mouth and didn't want me to put new ones in. He told me he wished I drank alcohol so I will do what he says. I have MS so I have a maid come in once a week and he still expects me to clean after him.
Posts: 319 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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Steph, I know a boy of 7 here who cannot tie his own shoelaces or use cutlery becasue his nanny dresses him and feeds him hand held food like Maccys and Pizza Hut everyday. Being in a lucky enough position to have a family earning enough to provide kids with Nannies sure is breeding a certain sector of folk with no etiquette, manners, respect or common sense!
Also... while I am on another roll... Nannies here are generally very uneducated, and parents leave their kids all day everyday with them... what chance does the kid actually have of learning anything in life! They are generally pampered, spoiled, fed crap and stuck in front of the TV all day. Sure, they may get a good education in their private school but life skills are seriously under-developed.
I don't like the Nanny state here, if people cba to bring their own kids up they shouldn't have them. harumph.
I am not talking for all... *Disclaimer* just the arrogant arses I have communicated with.
hahaha... can you imagine a dude here trying to shush me up Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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Unsure... that is awful I feel so sorry for ladies who are in this situation.
I have English girl friends in England with English men who are down-trodden, treated like dirt and frankly just being took the piss out of Only at the end of it they are drunks who then beat them!!! But they tell me I only see the bad and that I don't understand and that they are in love.... eeek
Unsure... have you ever gone 'on strike'? would he get off his ass and help then or would he sit in his own mess?
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Steph... It isn't isolated, I know women who work all day while their Egy hubbies spend all day snoring and then at night when they are trying to sleep their dude is calling their name for a hot drink to be made.
OMFG, he would have that kettle wrapped around his head.
MD, I hope your honeymood period lasts and that you don't resent being at his beck and call 20 years down the road when it is moreexpected than appreciated.
Ayisha.... you are also correct, it isn't isolated to Egypt, it is a global thing. I dated a dude who didn't know ho many sugars he had in his tea as his mum made all his drinks. Yeah, he soon learned.... they act like kids so treat them like kids. 'make your own fecking drink or die of thirst'
Sorry, I am way too intolerant of this nonsense as I am the only girl in the family and if I had allowed myself to be a skivvy I would still be one today, I soon taught them I was an equal!!!
EEEK. I am shocked how women want to wake in a morning knowing they are nothing other than unpaid maids.
I am on a roll!!!
quote:MD, I hope your honeymood period lasts and that you don't resent being at his beck and call 20 years down the road when it is moreexpected than appreciated.
He can look after himself well enough He can cook and clean
I just love doing all things for him, as this makes me happy.
He is happy when he see's me happy.
I'll do anything for him!!!
He can make as much mess around the place, really i dont mind we are together and thats the important thing.
I'd hate to see a man standing in front of a kitchen sink doing the dishes, thats a big turn off, same goes for chores.
Im working too and so he is, but i always make the time and effort.
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
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What works for some doesn't always work for others.
I certainly could never be so passive and giving if it was all one sided.
I come from a family where the men work at both home and in business, I was brought up to believe in equality and I would certainly expect that from my partner. I actually love to see a man in the kitchen mucking in... I think working together over a meal, or sharing the washing up is way more romantic than him sitting on the couch watching tv while I muddle on to make sure he is happy.
The fact you are happy to be this way is all good though Horses for courses.
In reverse, I also don't like to see men who go out to work all day while their woman sit on their arses all day watching Jeremy Kyle.
I actually just find laziness to be a vile trait Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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Cheeky I always like your style of straight talking and you always have a take no crap kind of attitude. It's good that you are like this in real life.I thought it was just us northerners who were blunt and to the point but obviously not
Marydot your post reminds me of my mother. She is one of those traditional housewife types who does all the cooking and cleaning and believes a man should be taken care of. I think its an old school view as most of us work in this modern world and personally i find a man who does nothing a huge turn off. If i have to to treat him like my child and wipe his backside then i am not attracted to him. I want an equal in every sense. I work upto 50 hours per week. I work my backside off. My job is bloody hard. I have a 10 month old baby so i need my man to do his share because i can not be coming home from work at 6pm and having to do all the chores, make the tea, feed the baby, bath the baby, wash the dishes, iron the clothes, put the baby to bed, walk the dog and then put my sexy undies on for a night of passion (ha) etc etc while he sits and watches the telly. No bloody way. I also think when you are in the honeymoon period things are drastically different, when i had been married to Sam about 2 months he told me one of the biggest things that attracted him about me was the fact that i never moaned or complained, he though i was some sort of special woman and he had hit paydirt. This was until we lived together and he discovered i can moan as much as the next woman. The difference was when we didnt live together i had nothing to complain about. Who does when you're seeing each other a few times a week and your time is spent going to cinemas, bars and restaurants? I think the daily grind kills the romance no matter who you are, but it's what you are left with at the end of the day that really counts. He used to open the car door for me, he doesnt anymore but he is still fantastic in loads of other ways so i wouldnt swap him for the world Posts: 500 | From: United Arab Emirates | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sums up the differences between the sexes pretty succinctly. It's not the usual bunkum - it's pretty funny and so true. He's also done some demos on how to ask a man to do stuff without sounding like a nag.
Sounds so straightforward in theory but them martians can be weird at times. Well I think it's pretty effective. Throw in a bit of NLP and the sky's the limit
MD - guys like to have that warm, fuzzy appreciated feeling too you know. Let him make the tea from time to time. Don't be greedy - learn to share Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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I WATCHED THE LINK (I trust yours!) I also re-posted it
I think I have a partial male brain!!! If a topic isn't about football or beer I tend not to really care so much
DG... why take 4 hrs to say what could be said in a minute I am north.. north of Watford
Ah the honeymoon period, when they guy tries to contain a fart, when dinosaur breath in a morning is the biggest disaster that year... when the dude cleans his pee up off the floor!!! Oh the list lol. Then you wake up 5 years on wondering who the hell has put maggots for fishing in the fridge and dripped sump oil all over yer kitchen floor!!!
I like team work! Simple. And at work or home, if I find I am putting more time and effort in for exactly the same payment or reward then forget it! Women fought to not be passive kitchen slaves... to hell with being dragged back down the evolutionary scale to make sure he goes to bed with a bloody smile.
GIRL POWER
My ex and I had a great life... and we shared a business, worked together and played together. Fab times, I even got used to the maggots and the oil... but my god I raped his razors and was forever nicking his socks Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: I think I have a partial male brain!!! If a topic isn't about football or beer I tend not to really care so much
Ah, but can you think about nothing? I really can't fathom how this is humanly possible, but for men, I don't doubt that it is
DG is an example to all of us I reckon. She needs to do a youtube video. I've read so many posts of yours DG saying hubby's done this or that. But it's all about attitude I reckon. You say "oh he's so nice, he's done this" whereas someone else might say "he's done this, bout time too." So from you he's getting the warm fuzzy glow, in the latter case it's still negativity. It's all about positive affirmation, I reckon, and maybe a little retraining, but nothing's impossible, I reckon.
The making the tea thing - whilst it's lovely in that little honeymoon phase and it's all sweet and nice and you feel all appreciated. It's a different matter when the thank yous are omitted; the blowing and slurping seems to get a little louder each day and you're finding coffee rings on the table you've just cleaned.
I have an admission to make. I have never washed up after cooking a meal in Egypt. And I feel no shame at admitting this whatsoever Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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I can think about nothing... Seriously, a pool and an ipod and I can think about nothing all day long! The lads I drink with treat me as one of the lads as I am scarily on the same wave length. Which is a blessing and a curse...
DG has nailed the balance of being married to an Egyptian... her words are very wise and it is nice to see someone happy in a relationship with an Egyptian sharing positive views. Being a Mom too will also help set the balance as pampering an adult would wear thin when there is a baby in the house in genuine need.
I also find with men and work (same same) the more you do they more they expect. BUT... with men and work, if the incentive to do so grows then I am happy. Treat me to a nice cocktail, take me off out to paint the town red and show me your appreciation then I may just not try to suffocate you in your sleep
Monkey, if you ever stay with me you are washing up sweetheart! I may be the hostess with the mostess but you earn yer keep lol.
Well, my brother is coming tomorrow to stay with me for a couple of weeks... how far will he push the 'i'm on holiday' line before I resort to giving him dead legs!!!!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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If your loathing of washing up beats mine, then that's fair enough me dear. But be damned I'm going to spend an hour cooking for a bloke then the next clearing up afterwards, day in, day out, week after week. Been there, done that. Nearly buried them under the patio. In that case, Miss Haversham is definitely the way to go.
Anyway, seen the vid now so no going back for me. The cat is out of the bag Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by marydot: I'd hate to see a man standing in front of a kitchen sink doing the dishes, thats a big turn off, same goes for chores.
I'd hate to stand in front of a kitchen sink doing dishes for a man who is too lazy to do housework. Big turnoff and definitely a dealbreaker.
Stephie, it sounds as if your man is quite spoiled and, tbh, I wouldn't be able to live with such a guy. I think the only chance you have to change this is to put your foot down. Have some serious talks with him – real talks, not nagging etc. set up plans (who does which housework and when) and don't do more than more your part.
Have you approached the subject with your hubby? Have you asked him WHY he thinks one person should do more housework than the other although both work equally outside the house ? What's his reasoning?
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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@Dalia, he is very spoiled and his whole 'reasoning' process seems to be 'because my mom did it' and by comparing me to his friends wives (which is BS because a) totally different circumstances b) they lie to one another so the 'perfect' marriages are fantasies. I have tried to discuss it but it degenerates into fighting, things have gotten bad enough that we have a counselor coming out on Tuesday (all being well) to try to mediate between us. He insists that he doesn't want a slave but refused to realize that an unpaid person who has no choice but to do a task is a slave. Also, if we both work and contribute, there is no way that one person can do everything nor is it fair to expect it.
Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH: @Dalia, he is very spoiled and his whole 'reasoning' process seems to be 'because my mom did it' and by comparing me to his friends wives
I have tried to discuss it but it degenerates into fighting
Oh.
Looks like there is a serious problem with rational thinking and communication in general.
Good decision to involve a councellor/mediator and best of luck!
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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What is the difference between slave and wife to an Egyptian male?
An honest answer based on my observations here in Luxor, is that the first one covers her hair and the second one is white and doesn't cover her hair. This includes several friends, some Egyptian men and some European women.
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: [QUOTE] men never really stop being little boys when they want their own way and sulk when they don't get it.
That's me.. Maybe that's coz we know better. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: I certainly could never be so passive and giving if it was all one sided.
I come from a family where the men work at both home and in business, I was brought up to believe in equality and I would certainly expect that from my partner.
Same here.
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: I actually love to see a man in the kitchen mucking in... I think working together over a meal, or sharing the washing up is way more romantic than him sitting on the couch watching tv while I muddle on to make sure he is happy.
quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH: @Dalia, he is very spoiled and his whole 'reasoning' process seems to be 'because my mom did it' and by comparing me to his friends wives (which is BS because a) totally different circumstances b) they lie to one another so the 'perfect' marriages are fantasies. I have tried to discuss it but it degenerates into fighting, things have gotten bad enough that we have a counselor coming out on Tuesday (all being well) to try to mediate between us. He insists that he doesn't want a slave but refused to realize that an unpaid person who has no choice but to do a task is a slave. Also, if we both work and contribute, there is no way that one person can do everything nor is it fair to expect it.
Im sorry to hear about your situation Stephie_ELH
He should not be comparing you to his friends wifes, that is so bad of him to do this.
If my partner said this it would hurt me alot.
He should be accepting you for who you are
Things do sound bad if you have to call in a counselor
Good luck
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
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@Marydot You guys can call me Steph:) We are both Muslim and he has violated SO many Islamic rules that I actually don't have room to list them and some I can't tell. The reason for the counselor is because we literally cannot be in the same room without a fight because he will not budge from his 'my way' stance and I don't want to divorce without this last try. There isn't much hope but am still going to try Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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With all due respect MD, encouraging bad behavior by teaching him that the best way to get his own way is to threaten to divorce, shout and generally behave like an infant is NOT the way to solve marital problems. I am not the one who is being unreasonable, if the marriage is to succeed, BOTH of us need to compromise and learn to live together, it isn't about me groveling so that he will deign to treat me like a human being just to stay married. I am sorry, but that sort of advice is the reason that he is as spoiled as he is, his parents probably said the same thing when he had a tantrum as a child.
Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by marydot: Inside your head you might be going crazy, but dont show it to him Keep this between you and allah
sorry but that lasts until you do go crazy and you can't hide it, it comes out in physical illness.
I understand you're in lerve mary, but your advice here is impractical, you're saying take the **** and smile in the hope he will throw a pleased smile your way?
Partnership, not master and skivvy.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH: With all due respect MD, encouraging bad behavior by teaching him that the best way to get his own way is to threaten to divorce, shout and generally behave like an infant is NOT the way to solve marital problems. I am not the one who is being unreasonable, if the marriage is to succeed, BOTH of us need to compromise and learn to live together, it isn't about me groveling so that he will deign to treat me like a human being just to stay married. I am sorry, but that sort of advice is the reason that he is as spoiled as he is, his parents probably said the same thing when he had a tantrum as a child.
sorry i could not help you.
Good luck and i hope all things work out well.
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH: @Marydot You guys can call me Steph:) We are both Muslim and he has violated SO many Islamic rules that I actually don't have room to list them and some I can't tell. The reason for the counselor is because we literally cannot be in the same room without a fight because he will not budge from his 'my way' stance and I don't want to divorce without this last try. There isn't much hope but am still going to try
Run from him, don't walk!!! You are of value. Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
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When I was a young man, all the boys wanted a wife to replace their mothers. My wife managed that for a quite a while, but she slowly trained me to see things her way. I cannot get over Dzosser's signature line, and how true it is!
"Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone."
Maybe I'm pushing my luck, but I think that either part of it can apply to most older people, me included, at various times!
It seems to me that most young western men wouldn't dare to try and get away with the sort of attitude to marriage which we had forty years or so ago, but sadly (from what I see) it's still endemic here.
Culture clash?
I do hope you manage to come through this without a broken heart, Stephie_ELH
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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pulling this up from beneath the huge pile of SPAM. This really is getting beyond a joke now.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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again, way too much spam in this place now, shout me back when it's cleaned up and disent has been shot or hanged.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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