posted
Just trying to understand. Is Polygamy still legal in all of the countries that practice Islam? Are there any requirements that need to be satisfied to obtain another wife?
Posts: 5 | From: Illinois - usa | Registered: Mar 2006
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Hey! Two wives might be better than one. Most women seem to cool off sexually after 5 years or so of marriage & have other interests. Maybe a Harem would eliminate that?
Posts: 5 | From: Illinois - usa | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
First of all, I'm assuming you aren't Muslim. Second thing, polygamy isn't about how you can get the most sex out of life. If you're married and your wife has become disinterested in sex, then perhaps you two have some issues that need to be worked out. If you can't work out the issue/s between the two of you, perhaps counseling might help. Polygamy is a serious thing. You must treat both wives equally in all things. I don't personally know any man who could manage such a thing.
If I have the time I'll look around for some links to paste here so you can read more about it to become more fully informed.
Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: If I have the time I'll look around for some links to paste here so you can read more about it to become more fully informed.
Posted this text before, but can't find the thread anymore ...
Many Muslim nations which now consider polygamy unconstitutional have justified such changes in legislation on the basis of the overall Qur'anic perspective on marriage, as well as on modern Islamic perspectives of marriage. The marriage of subjugation at the time of revelation was premised on the need for females to be materially provided for by some male. The ideal male for a female child was the father, and for the adult female, the husband. This economic perspective of marriage - as indicated by several verses discussed above - will also be reviewed here with regard to polygamy.
If you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, three or four. But if you fear that you will not be able do do justly (with them),then only one, ... to prevent you from doing justice. (4.3)
First, this verse is about treatment of orphans. Some male guardians, responsible for managing the wealth of orphaned female children, were unable to refrain from unjust management of that wealth. (4:2). One solution suggested to prevent mismanagement was marriage to the female orphans. On the one hand, the Qur'an limited this number to four, and on the other hand, the economic responsibility of maintaining the wife would counterbalance the access to the wealth of the orphaned female through the responsibility of management. However, most proponents of polygamy seldom discuss it within the context of just treatment of orphans.
In fact, as far as they are concerned, the only measurement of justice between wives is material - can a man equally support more than one wife? This is an extension of the archaic idea of marriages of subjugation, because fairness is not based on quality of time, equality in terms of affection, or on spiritual, moral, and intellectual support. These general terms of social justice are not considered with regard to just treatment with wives.
It is especially clear that this verse is concerned with justice: dealing justly, managing funds justly, justice to the orphans, and justice to the wives, etc. Justice is the focus of most modern commentaries concerned with polygamy. In the light of the verse 4:129 - "You are never able to be just and fair as between women ..." - many commentators assert that monogamy is the preferred marital arrangement of the Qur'an. Surely, it is impossible to attain the Qur'anic ideal with regard to mutuality ("They (feminine plural) are raiment for you (masculine plural) and you are raiment for them" (2:187)), and with regard to building between them "love and mercy" (30:21), when the husband-father is split between more than one family.
Finally, with regard to three common justifications given for polygamy, there is no direct sanction in the Qur'an. One is financial: in the context of economic problems such as unemployment, a financially capable man should care for more than one wife. Again, this assumes that all women are financial burdens: reproducers, but not producers. In today's world a lot of women neither have nor need male supporters. For one thing, it is no longer accepted that only men can work, do work, or are the most productive workers, in all circumstances. With regard to work outside the home, i.e. paid employment, the market is based on productivitiy. Productivity in turn is based on a numer of factors, and gender is only one of them. Surely, polygamy is no simple solution to complex economic problems.
Another rationale given for a man having more than one wife centres on the woman who is unable to have children. Again, there is no mention of this as a rationale for polygamy in the Qur'an. However, the desire for children is natural. Thus, consideration for the barren man and the barren woman should not exclude either from the chance of marriage, nor from the care and upbringing of children. What possible solution is mutually available when the wife or husband is sterile and the couple cannot have their own children?
In a world of war and devastation, there are still orphaned Muslim (and other) children who would benefit from the love and care of childless couples. Perhaps caring for all of the earth's children might be practised by Muslims in the light of global catastrophes still unresolved. One's own blood relations are important, but perhaps not in terms of the final judgement of one's ability to care and nurture. Finally, the third rationale given for polygamy not only has no sanction in the Qur'an but is clearly un-Qur'anic as it attempts to sanction men's unbridled lust: that if a man's sexual needs cannot be satisfied by one wife, he should have two. Presumably, if his lust is greater than that, he should have three, and on until he has four. Only after this fourth are the Qur'anic principles of self-constraint, modesty, and fidelity finally to be exercised.
As self-constraint and fidelity are required at the onset for the wife, these moral virtues are equally significant for the husband. It is clear that the Qur'an does not stress a high, civilized level for women while leaving men to interact with others at the basest level. Otherwise, the mutual responsibility of khilafah (trusteeship) would be left to one half of humanity while the other half remains near the animal state.
Amina Wadud: Qur'an and Woman. Rereading the Sacred Text from a Woman's perspective
quote:Originally posted by doctor dj: Most women seem to cool off sexually after 5 years or so
Heh heh. Probably means their husbands aren't doing their job very well. Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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My husband has two uncles who each have two wives and one of them is seeking a third wife. His grandfather who is know deceased also had two wives. It is still very much practiced in middle eastern countries. It is not so much common in Egypt but in some of the richier middle eastern countries such as Bahrain and Saudi Arabia it is widely done. As long as the wives are treated the same, it is accepted.
I personally can't imagine a man being married to more than one woman but it does happen. Some say it is better to be married than to cheat. I just believe that if you love your spouse, you should be loyal to him/her. If you feel you need another person in your life, perhaps it is time to seek counseling or divorce. That means the marriage is in trouble.
quote:Originally posted by doctor dj: Just trying to understand. Is Polygamy still legal in all of the countries that practice Islam? Are there any requirements that need to be satisfied to obtain another wife?
posted
i dont think it necessarily means the marriage is in trouble. i have been in love only once, with someone i knew it couldn't work. during that time i couldnt ever have shared him... but i dont know if i will ever be that in love again, and its not everything. i can really see the advantages of another woman in the house, and as long as that intense chemistry isnt there then why not? i can see the benefits of harems and also communes. quite frankly, i dont know what man in his right mind would willingly put his life in the hands of two women!!
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Marriage vows aren't something you take only as long as they serve you or you feel like it. Here in the states, and I'm sure in England as well, it's for better or worse, through sickness and health, til death do you part. If you can't handle that, then don't get married. Then you can sleep around and catch all the diseases you want. Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
ooooooh.... im not, nor have i ever been married... and i can assure you i have no diseases. what if you are married and faithful but your husband isnt... you might end up with diseases as you were not in control of the situation. and not everybody takes the same vows. even the ones youve mentioned above refer to divorce not polygamy.
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I just think we try to find partners with values similar to our own. I believe wholeheartedly in monogamy, so I want my spouse to believe the same.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Charm El Feikh?: i dont think it necessarily means the marriage is in trouble. i have been in love only once, with someone i knew it couldn't work. during that time i couldnt ever have shared him... but i dont know if i will ever be that in love again, and its not everything. i can really see the advantages of another woman in the house, and as long as that intense chemistry isnt there then why not? i can see the benefits of harems and also communes. quite frankly, i dont know what man in his right mind would willingly put his life in the hands of two women!!
Charm, would recommend reading 'English Hareem'. It's a great book about just how well polygamy can work, even in the UK ( except when the the authorities get involved!) and would answer some of your cultural questions as well.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
thanks... i will. i have a friend who sold up and moved into a commune... i nearly died when she told me..... then i saw the pictures and read the literature..... very appealing!!!! i had this hippie image in my head and its nothing like that.. very modern and civilised. i just wonder if i dont have similar views on hareems, imagining this big 'i am' man lording over his weak unhappy wives. i bet its not like that at all. (but then again, this wouldnt be the first time ive said something terribly wrong this weekend)!!!
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Penny did you see The English Hareem on television starring Martine McCutcheon and Art Malik. I was absolutely hooked, it was sad, funny but so true.
Posts: 200 | From: uk | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by doctor dj: Hi, Loved One!
Hey! Two wives might be better than one. Most women seem to cool off sexually after 5 years or so of marriage & have other interests. Maybe a Harem would eliminate that?
That is such a farce. Women after 5 years of marriage become much more of a sexually expressive person. Demanding higher quality sex, this is what men hate to admit.
Women get better, men get lazier. Marrying a second woman isn't going to solve any of his sexual shortfalls.
i dont agree. it isn't about the quality of the sex ... it's about the loss of chemistry. which is perfectly normal and has been scientifically proven.
i do agree, however, that marrying another woman won't solve the problem.
Posts: 2049 | From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
well it will.... temporarily!.... how many wives are you allowed??!!!! HE HE!!!
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Truedevotion: Sometimes I just feel sooooooo lucky to be a christian:)!!
That is small consolation. There is always the possibility of extra marital affairs. In fact a non-religious man may prefer that alternative.
The only case of polygamy that I know of personally in Egypt is someone who had such an affair. But things didn't go as planned and a child was conceived. In order to "fix it" he had to marry his mistress.
The issue is not really polygamy but breakdown of trust and intimacy in marriages. Sex is almost never the real issue. However sex is the first one to leave when a couple are unable to work out their issues.
Posts: 143 | From: Silicon Valley | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
HA! did i realy post 'i do' on a polygamy thread???!!!!!! AHAHAH HEHEHEHE HAHA HEHE!!!!!!!!
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
hey.... where dya go???? did your wife spring you?!!!!!!!!
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Karena: Penny did you see The English Hareem on television starring Martine McCutcheon and Art Malik. I was absolutely hooked, it was sad, funny but so true.
Hi, no I deliberatley missed it because I had just bought the book. Funny when I bought the book I just wanted some low key reading but it was quite the opposite. The great thing was how strong all the women were and the fantastic relationship between all of them. I think though the key in it working was that he was only having sex with one of them...I guess Martine played Tracy. Will have to see if there's a DVD.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Truedevotion: Sometimes I just feel sooooooo lucky to be a christian:)!!
That is small consolation. There is always the possibility of extra marital affairs. In fact a non-religious man may prefer that alternative.
The only case of polygamy that I know of personally in Egypt is someone who had such an affair. But things didn't go as planned and a child was conceived. In order to "fix it" he had to marry his mistress.
The issue is not really polygamy but breakdown of trust and intimacy in marriages. Sex is almost never the real issue. However sex is the first one to leave when a couple are unable to work out their issues.
Well says Nanouk! I agree with you 100% Posts: 1414 | From: far away | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
What about Concubines? I understand that many affluent individuals professing Islam had them. Even Ben Laden was an offstring of a Concubine. Abraham & Jacob were the first people on record in the Christian Bible who had them. Is this still considered acceptable in Islamic cultures today?
Posts: 5 | From: Illinois - usa | Registered: Mar 2006
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