posted 18 October 2005 08:52 PM            

You guys are actually taking the time to squibble with the dumb Hore when you post more important stuff about this board's subject, like the fall of Egyptian culture.

Instead, you carry on this useless banter with the dumb Hore!! I repeat, it is USELESS to argue with people like him. Believe me I tried. A long time ago I even showed him the painted bust of king Tut and he made up some ridiculous exuse that he didn't look "that black"!!

posted 19 October 2005 05:22 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by leba:
Ancient Egyptians looked nothing like yall Bantu Congo-Americans aka Afro-Americans...

[This message has been edited by leba (edited 19 October 2005).]

---

posted 19 October 2005 11:28 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by leba:
Ancient Egyptians looked nothing like yall Bantu Congo-Americans aka Afro-Americans...

[This message has been edited by leba (edited 19 October 2005).]

---

Do you think they look like Oromos or Somali people?

posted 19 October 2005 12:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
Mansa, Osirion, and Walk, you must not allow yourselves to be played like fools! Remember, it is trolls like Hore who are the fools!

You guys are actually taking the time to squibble with the dumb Hore when you post more important stuff about this board's subject, like the fall of Egyptian culture.

Instead, you carry on this useless banter with the dumb Hore!! I repeat, it is USELESS to argue with people like him. Believe me I tried. A long time ago I even showed him the painted bust of king Tut and he made up some ridiculous exuse that he didn't look "that black"!!

Now Walk is a child so her behavior is easily excused, but what about the rest of you guys-- Mansa and Osirion? Walk must learn like the rest of us that there are adults who are just as stupidly stubborn as toddlers!!

---

Actually I think we need someone with a better psychology background to deal with Hor. The thing is that he represents the majority of White Americans. This Black and White thinking, the idea that when things get into a gray area that the White Americans have the right to draw the lines where they see fit is an interesting thing to analyze. Its not like you get to talk to these types openly ar Work or even in Church. Basically its simply a political issue for Hor and not a historial or anthropogical one. Basically he is a traditional nationalist and because America has defined a group of people as SUCH and SUCH then they must be exactly that - Because White America has spoken.

It is real simple:

White America says this is White on paper:

But no one in Americans society recognizes this technicality because it is ABSURD.

posted 19 October 2005 05:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:

Do you think they look like Oromos or Somali people?

---

No...No..No...

I'm sure modern Egyptians don't look that different from the Ancient ones..(..even lower Egypt)

Why do you people always say ...

''Egyptians were *not* mixed until recently'' thats crap! Just look how north Egypt is who are you guys trying to fool? How could they be not mixed for thousands of years. but the mediterranean, west asia and berber-regions are very close to Egypt.

Modern egyptians are how ancient egyptians looked like!

End of story

posted 19 October 2005 06:00 PM            

quote:

---

This was what I heard from the priests at Thebes; at Dodona, however, the women who deliver the oracles relate the matter as follows:- "Two black doves flew away from Egyptian Thebes, and while one directed its flight to Libya, the other came to them. She alighted on an oak, and sitting there began to speak with a human voice, and told them that on the spot where she was, there should henceforth be an oracle of Jove. They understood the announcement to be from heaven, so they set to work at once and erected the shrine. The dove which flew to Libya bade the Libyans to establish there the oracle of Ammon." This likewise is an oracle of Jupiter. The persons from whom I received these particulars were three priestesses of the Dodonaeans, the eldest Promeneia, the next Timarete, and the youngest Nicandra- what they said was confirmed by the other Dodonaeans who dwell around the temple.

My own opinion of these matters is as follows:- I think that, if it be true that the Phoenicians carried off the holy women, and sold them for slaves, the one into Libya and the other into Greece, or Pelasgia (as it was then called), this last must have been sold to the Thesprotians. Afterwards, while undergoing servitude in those parts, she built under a real oak a temple to Jupiter, her thoughts in her new abode reverting- as it was likely they would do, if she had been an attendant in a temple of Jupiter at Thebes- to that particular god. Then, having acquired a knowledge of the Greek tongue, she set up an oracle. She also mentioned that her sister had been sold for a slave into Libya by the same persons as herself.

The Dodonaeans called the women doves because they were foreigners, and seemed to them to make a noise like birds. After a while the dove spoke with a human voice, because the woman, whose foreign talk had previously sounded to them like the chattering of a bird, acquired the power of speaking what they could understand. For how can it be conceived possible that a dove should really speak with the voice of a man? Lastly, by calling the dove black the Dodonaeans indicated that the woman was an Egyptian. And certainly the character of the oracles at Thebes and Dodona is very similar. Besides this form of divination, the Greeks learnt also divination by means of victims from the Egyptians.

---

The History of Herodotus, Book II, 55-57

posted 19 October 2005 06:01 PM            

How quick will you be to argue that Horn Africans had a substantial influx of Bantu populations Leba?

After all they are so close to the Horn surely they made up and still make up a substantial percentage of that region's population.

Since this thread is still no more than picture spam I thought I'd add a bit more.

This is what Egyptians looked like during the period of Roman Egypt even after the massive immigrations of foreigners introduced by the Greeks:

We can predict with a great degree of certainty that the foreign "Caucasian" presence in Ancient Egypt in dynastic times was minimal, first on account of the craniofacial continuity during pre-dynastic and dynastic times which is different from those people you'd say were the real Egyptians and second on the fact that the Egyptians depicted those people as clearly different than them in physical appearance.

posted 19 October 2005 06:08 PM            

R E T U R N T O G L O R Y by Joel A. Freeman, Ph.D.


photos that prove, the ancient Egytians were Black.

posted 19 October 2005 06:24 PM            

quote:

---

How quick will you be to argue that Horn Africans had a substantial influx of Bantu populations Leba?
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b383/shurikenjay/African_language_families.png

After all they are so close to the Horn surely they made up and still make up a substantial percentage of that region's population.

---

Duh...Everyone knows East Africa is loaded with Bantus thats why Swahili is the most spoken language in that region, Never denied that mmmaaaanyyyy Bantus live in East Africa

quote:

---

This is what Egyptians looked like during the period of Roman Egypt even after the massive immigrations of foreigners introduced by the Greeks:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b383/shurikenjay/RomanizedEgyptianbrothers.jpg[/IMG]
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b383/shurikenjay/RomanizedEgyptianbrothersII.jpg[/IMG]

We can predict with a great degree of certainty that the foreign "Caucasian" presence in Ancient Egypt in dynastic times was minimal, first on account of the craniofacial continuity during pre-dynastic and dynastic times which is different from those people you'd say were the real Egyptians and second on the fact that the Egyptians depicted those people as clearly different than them in physical appearance.

---

That man looks a hell lot closer to that greek-roman then to a central african!

posted 19 October 2005 06:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mansa Musa:

---

That map sucks a bit...

Afro-Asiatic/Hamito-Semitic/Afrasian looks so huge because of the sahara..

posted 19 October 2005 06:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by leba:

No...No..No...

I'm sure modern Egyptians don't look that different from the Ancient ones..(..even lower Egypt)

Why do you people always say ...

''Egyptians were *not* mixed until recently'' thats crap! Just look how north Egypt is who are you guys trying to fool? How could they be not mixed for thousands of years. but the mediterranean, west asia and berber-regions are very close to Egypt.

Modern egyptians are how ancient egyptians looked like!

End of story

---

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Introduction.

[/b]The middle of the Eighteenth century can be considered as starting point in recounting the history of modern Egypt.[/b] The
following is an attempt to analyze the status quo of Modern Egypt in the context of her historical development. A major
motivation for this work is my concern regarding the gross distortion of modern Egyptian history. This distortion was mostly a
result of the policies of the 1952 revolution and may have resulted in producing generations of Egyptians who are ignorant of
their history. This lack of knowledge of Egypt Modern History in turn resulted in losing identity and being susceptible to
believing any historical claim without critically examining it.
http://info.infomideast.com/p6.html

Timeline
Get an overview of the different periods and dynasties.

Medieval Egyptian History

Medieval Egyptian History
A general, short introduction to Egyptian history in medieval times and the different important periods.
The Arab Conquest: 639-641
The conquest of Egypt was part of the Arab/Islamic expansion that began when the Prophet Muhammad died and Arab tribes began to move out of the Arabian Peninsula into Iraq and Syria.

The Battles For Domination: 868-1260
The Tulinids and the Ikhshidids, the Fatimids, and Saladin and the Ayyubid Empire. Read about them and their battles for domination here.

The Mamluks: 1260-1517
The Turkish migrations and the Mongol Invasion had a huge impact on not only Egypt but all of the Middle East.

Egypt under The Ottoman Empire: 1517-1760
The Ottoman Empire ruled huge parts of Northern Africa. In medieval Egypt they had to struggle with the Mamluks.

Islam in Medieval Egypt
In Medieval Egypt Islam was intensely expansionist. Favour for the new religion, as well as economic and social factors, fuelled this expansionism.

http://www.travel-to-egypt.net/egyptian-history.html#medieval

Modern | Ottoman | Muslim | | Roman | Greek

posted 19 October 2005 08:22 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by leba:

Duh...Everyone knows East Africa is loaded with Bantus thats why Swahili is the most spoken language in that region, Never denied that mmmaaaanyyyy Bantus live in East Africa

---

posted 19 October 2005 08:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by leba:
That man looks a hell lot closer to that greek-roman then to a central african!

---

Being of mixed race those two brothers would likely look less like their Egyptian ancestors.

The point that seems to escape your mind is that by American standards they would not be seen as anything other than Black men!

When was the argument ever made on here that Ancient Egyptians looked like Central Africans?

Leba, your ethnic discrimination is nothing special.

In America some light-skinned African-Americans discriminate against darker-skinned ones and vice versa. Many African-Americans of all skintones discriminate against African immigrants including you precious Horn Africans. By some you aren't seen as any better than an arrogant African immigrant no matter what part of Africa you come from.

You get your panties in a bunch every time Walk compares some images of Egyptians to African-Americans then rant and rave, foaming at the mouth about how offended you are to hear Egyptians being compared to broad-nosed, broad-faced people of West/Central African descent.

Well you know what?:

This Pharaoh clearly has the same features you are whining about. None of us said such features were in the majority you are clearly having an argument with youself which is making you look almost as dumb as Horemheb.

Now as far as your argument that it is absurd to explain the Modern Egyptian look (which is diverse) on "recent" foreign migrations the last time I checked 2500 years ago was not recent. The Greeks occupied Egypt in about 332 B.C.. Look at the population of Brazil. It is almost 40% Black and over 50% "white" with different people of various mixed ancestry.

Brazil

Ethnic groups:
Definition Field Listing
white 53.7%, mulatto (mixed white and black) 38.5%, black 6.2%, other (includes Japanese, Arab, Amerindian) 0.9%, unspecified 0.7% (2000 census)

600 years ago it was 0% either. 600 years is a drop in the bucket compared to 2500. DNA tests prove the genetic diversity of Modern Egypt. To promote the objectivity of Modern Egypt being the same population unaltered as the Ancient (as early as 5000 years ago) is to profess a profound ignorance of Egyptian history as well as the interactions of populations.

posted 19 October 2005 10:40 PM            

NOW LOOK AT THE THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS

DO THEY LOOK THE SAME. NO... AE Were AFRICANS NOTHIN LIKE CAUCASAIN WHITES.

posted 20 October 2005 10:49 AM            

Egypt has always been a place of fascination for the ancients outside the region of Egypt. For instance, two of the seven wonders of the World were situated in Egypt.

The Rosetta Stone was discovered during the Napoleonic Egyptian Campaign in 1799. In 1822 Jean Champollion was able to crack the code of hieroglyphics. Once the code of hieroglyphics had been cracked, it brought a renewed interest to that region of the world.

For the first time in thousands of years, utilizing the new-found skills of reading Egyptian hieroglyphics, people could corroborate certain historical events, people and places. The discovery of the Rosetta Stone and subsequent understanding of the esoteric hieroglyph language was the connection that brought everything to the forefront for "modern" people to wrestle with some realities.

European archaeologists, anthropologists and historians were in a catch-22 situation. On one hand they were seeing images of people with clear Afroid features as they traveled around Egypt.

On the other hand, there was the terrible history of the slave trade that had been going on for approximately 350 years prior. For Europeans to justify the economic drive of the slave trade, there had to be the denigration of people of African descent. (Also, let's not forget the complicity of African Kings in bringing their warring neighbors to the slave traders.) Since the slave trade had been going on for some 350 years, the negative view of Black people had permeated much of Europe, South and North America and the rest of the world.

There was a crisis of conscience, especially in the mid 1800s. How are the European archaeologists going to interpret what they are seeing and understanding, to an eager outside world? In my opinion, they blew a wonderful opportunity to share the truth. Instead most went to all sorts of ends to try to present Egyptians as though they were not of African descent. The book, Black Spark, White Fire (Richard Poe) addresses the ethnicity of the ancient Egyptians in a most ingenious manner.

The one-drop rule worked in the US -- one drop of black blood makes one black. Let's reverse the standards for archaeologists and anthropologists when viewing ancient history -- one drop of white blood makes you white, no matter how curly the hair or thick the lips.

All of this impacted the world -- brought on by a specific event. In my opinion, the re-discovery of the Rosetta Stone was the catalyst that brought about the series of events that ultimately reshaped the thinking of people around the world regarding the ethnicity of the ancient Egyptians.

See for yourself. The photos you are about to view in a few moments are not so much "Afro Centric" as they are "Truth Centric". ...

In many sectors there seems to be some controversy about the racial make-up of the Egyptian people, i.e. whether they were White or Black. This is a simplistic approach to a much more complicated set of circumstances since Egypt's strategic location brought people in from the south with Nubian and equatorial African influence and from the northern coast of Africa and the Middle East with Afro-Mediterranean and Semitic influences. The Biblical record places Egypt among the "Black" countries. Melanin dosage tests of mummified remains (controversial due to damage caused by the embalming process) seem to indicate a level of melanocytes consistent with a people of a semi tropical to temperate climate zone.

Egypt continues to dominate the focus of our African oriented studies. These studies have clearly demonstrated that not only were early Egypt's origins African, but that through the whole of Egypt's Dynastic Era (the age of the Pharaohs), and during all of her many periods of national splendor, men and women with black skin complexions, broad noses, full lips, and tightly curled hair, were dominant in both the general population and governing elite.

In the intense and unrelenting struggle to establish scientifically the African foundations of Egyptian civilization, the late Senegalese scholar Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop remains a most fierce and ardent champion. Dr. Diop (1923-1986) was without a doubt one of the world's leading Egyptologist and held the position of Director of the Radiocarbon Laboratory at the Fundamental Institute of Black Africa in Dakar, Senegal. In stating the importance of the work, Diop noted emphatically and early on that, "The history of Black Africa will remain suspended in air and cannot be written correctly until African historians dare to connect it with the history of Egypt."

The solid range of methodologies employed by Dr. Diop in the course of his extensive Afro-Egyptian labors included: examinations of the epidermis of the mummies of Egyptian kings for verification of their melanin content; precise osteological measurements and meticulous studies in the various relevant areas of anatomy and physical anthropology; careful examinations and comparisons of modern Upper Egyptian and West African blood-types; detailed Afro-Egyptian linguistic studies and the corroboration of distinct Afro-Egyptian cultural traits; documents of racial designations employed by the early Africans themselves; Biblical testimonies and references that address the ancient Egyptian's ethnicity, race and culture; and the writings of early Greek and Roman travelers and scholars describing the physical characteristics of the ancient Egyptians.

The original Egyptians were unmixed pure black folks. When they were at the pinnacle of their glory they were not a mixed group by any means. During the middle dynasties especially (and later) when people migrated to this great land there was some intermarrying. This is natural and doesn't need to be debated. It was even done within royalty lines at times to solidify alliances, which was a common practice between powers during that period of history. Chancellor Williams refers to this phenomenon in his book "The Destruction of Black Civilization." And frankly, he theorizes that this mixing was part of the reason for the fall of Black Civilization. Nevertheless, there was never so much of this that at any time the ancient Egyptians could ever be classified as other than a black people.

It's reasonable to say that Egypt was a gateway for the meeting and interchange of goods, ideas, and people; and that the Egyptians were themselves a unique expression of human strength, beauty, intelligence and diversification. Ancient Egypt was an African civilization. It is also interesting to note that the Biblical record states "Israel also came into Egypt...the land of Ham." (Psalm 105: 23).

Plus we need to be reminded that Egypt is in Africa (not the Middle East) and that all of the Pharaohs (up to and including the 25th Dynasty) would have been required to "sit at the back of a bus" in the 1940s in Montgomery Alabama. Let's allow the pictures to speak for themselves...Ready?
http://www.freemaninstitute.com/RTGpix.htm

Now, what would a Caucasian gain by lying!

posted 21 October 2005 12:47 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by brazil:
when did white ppl start EVER wear braids and dread locks like the egyptians did?

---

When they started listening to Bob Marley.

Freeman certainly has an impressive collection of Egyptian art. I am surprised to find out he is White. His page Freemaninstitute looks more Afrocentric than any out there.
http://www.freemaninstitute.com/

Now as far as "Why would a Caucasian lie?". Horemheb and others would respond by saying that such people are liberal Marxists with a socialist agenda.

quote:

---

Return to Glory:The Powerful Stirring of the Black Man -- Endorsed by Bill Cosby, Julius "Dr."J" Erving, Dr. Ben Carson, Tony Campolo and many others, this book exposes racist distortions of African achievements, analyzes examples of African American success stories and offers a process for individual healing and cross-cultural understanding.

---

That seems like an honest enough premise. Horemheb's problem is he doesn't want to understand other cultures. He wants to promote what he percieves as his culture and considers anyone who promotes cross-cultural viewpoints as commiting blasphemy of the highest order. He has outright stated his belief in cultural inferiority. He seems to welcome people of other ethnic groups as guests in "his" culture as long as they recognize that it is his house. I can understand the Eurocentric discomfort in the notion that Egypt heavily influenced Greece but there is no excuse for this racist garbage concerning Egypt and its African nature. The mindset of the radical Eurocentrist is that everything African that is great is a product of foreign influence. Mali and Songhai were Muslim empires influenced by an Asiatic rooted culture. Ancient Ghana was supposedly influenced by Berbers. Axum was supposedly influenced by Arabs at its foundation. Even the enigmatic Great Zimbabwe has been suggested to have Indonesian roots. The theme is clear:

"The Black man's only place in Western society is as a subject."

posted 21 October 2005 11:26 AM            

The language issue ends the debate in terms of origin. Its a dead issue. Egyptians don't speak a so called Mediterrainian language like Latin or anything like that. If they were a Caucasian dominated society then why don't they speak a language that we know Caucasians speak (Latin or Sanscript - etc). All of Europea as well as Northern Indian Caucasians speak a language that is closely related. If these people dominated Egyptian culture, what happened to their language?

So answer that simple question Hor. Why did the Ancient Egyptians not speak a Caucasian language, why instead do they speak a language that we know is of Southern Ethiopian derivative (I don't even think the Sumerians spoke AfroAsiatic)? And to Afrocentrics, you are all quite aware of the trade between Sumeria and Egypt such as glassware and pottery not to mention the Palestinian influences, how can you say Egypt was an isolated Black society knowing that in the Delta the Eurasian people dominated on and off over a huge period of time?

posted 21 October 2005 02:09 PM            

Language tells you a lot. It tells you the dominant culture or the founder groups. Examples of that are in Madagascar and most of the Latin world. Its really simple, the dominant culture can force its language on a population that may be entirely different genetically.

If Caucasians were the dominant culture then we would have a language that could be traced back to IndoEurope. It is that simple. We don't have this, rather, we have a language that can be traced down the Nile into Southern Ethiopia.

Your socks can't taste that good Hor so stop putting you foot in your mouth.

posted 21 October 2005 03:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
how can you say Egypt was an isolated Black society knowing that in the Delta the Eurasian people dominated on and off over a huge period of time?

Answers please.

---

I'm going to assume this was a generalized statement and not directed at me but most of us on this board acknowledge that Magrheb and Levantine people were present in Lower Egypt. Did they dominate the Delta? I'm not so sure of that I'd have to analyse the data on that subject but one thing is for sure, they were not culturally dominant.

As for Greece its Afro-Asiatic roots are being taught in major univerisities, there is substantial evidence that Ancient Egypt colonized Crete during the Bronze Age and that Egyptian culture influenced Greek culture. That is not to say that everything Greek is actually Egyptian but acknowledging the fact that major civilizations in the Mediterranean region preceeded Greece, had the resources to influence them and there is evidence that they did so. Phonecia and Egypt influenced Greece. Egypt and Mesopatamia influenced each other through trade as you said Osirion.

I think this link gives good insight into the Ancient Egyptian influence on Ancient Greece.
http://maat.sofiatopia.org/hermes1.htm

As far as linguistics is concerned it is not necessarily a good measure of ethnicity. We can determine who was related to whom culturally by linguistics. Sanskrit does have close ties to Iranian and European languages, this connection was used to perpetuate the mythical Aryan Invasion theory.
http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/ancient/aryan/aryan_link.html

Ancient Libyans and Egyptians both speak an Afro-Asiatic language though Egyptian and Berber are not in the same branch. Egyptian is in its own language branch and related to many groups of people some classified as Caucasiod and others as Negroid. Those terms are irrelavent we know that Afro-Asiatic is derived from tropically adapted people that doesn't mean that everyone who speaks these languages are tropically adapted or if they are not such as the Ancient Libyans that others must be as well.

The ethnicity of the Egyptians is better difined by evidence from anthropology, genetics, archeology, historical sources and cultural roots.

Egyptians were speaking Afroasiatic as early as 4,000 B.C.. They record their origins as being from the "Land of Punt" which is in Eastern Africa along the Red sea which is the location Proto-Afroasiatic just happens to originate in.

From this evidence and the early archeological sites along the Nile, it is safe to say that the Egyptians originated in tropical East Africa and traveled up the Nile to settle in what is now Modern Egypt.

As far as West Africa, Elvis and Egypt Horemheb ( ), sure his adoption of African culture make us about equally connected to Egypt, although I'd say I have my up on him considering I am more genetically related to those cultural forebears.

But would it make sense to say we are genetically more closely related to Ancient Cherokee since we both have known Cherokee ancestry than either of us is to Ancient Greece? I don't know if you'd agree with that but you are ignoring the fact that many West Africans that African-Americans descended from are closely related to the Ancient Egyptians. Not to mention that African-American does not equal only West African descent. There was an East African Slave trade in which many East Africans were shipped to the same slave ports in West Africa as native West Africans not to mention that Madagascar and South East Africa were also major Trans-Atlantic trading ports.

In any case I do not claim a close genetic relation to the Ancient Egyptians. Such a relation is more than likely found with people like Ausar and Walk. I do recognize Ancient Egypt as an important part of my African heritage and do not see doing so as any more invalid than a non-Greek or non-Italian seeing Rome and Greece as part of their European heritage as most European Americans with an interest in history do.

I think Richard Poe explained it quite well.

quote:

---

Interviewer: You say there's a double standard at work when white critics of Afrocentrism say it's wrong for black Americans to identify with ancient Egypt. As you write, "an Anglo-Saxon descended from wild Germanic tribes could legitimately take pride in his cultural inheritance -- however distant and tenuous -- from ancient Greece. But a black African must not take pride in ancient Egypt." Can you elaborate on this point?

Richard Poe: The standard talking point of people who attack Afrocentrism is, "I'm Scottish, I don't claim a Greek civilization." That's a lie. Speaking as a European American myself, the European Americans who say they don't think of themselves as European, as not considering Europe as their heritage, are lying through their teeth. Every white European American has a claim to every European civilization.

In the introduction to Black Spark, White Fire, I say I'm proud of European culture. I say that in my opinion, The Iliad and The Odyssey are the two greatest works of literature. I don't set out to beat up on either of the two cultures [European and African]. Any person who does not have self-respect, respect for their own heritage, cannot respect others.

---

posted 21 October 2005 08:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by brazil:
when did white ppl start EVER wear braids and dread locks like the egyptians did?

---

posted 21 October 2005 08:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Horemheb:
Mansa, My guess is that you are an American black of west African origin. You can correct me if I am wrong. If that is the case you have about as much connection to ancient egypt as EJlvis does...

---

I don't see how! Are you suggesting that blacks of West Africa have no more relation to blacks from another part of Africa-- the Nile Valley, as a white guy?!

Please explain how this is so?

quote:

---

The problem with trying to use language is that latin and greek came along much later.
Egypt is much older than Europe. What did the Libyans speak? Like the Egyptians they were caucasians and predated Greece and Rome. That was a good try though.

---

As has been expressed in this board many times before, the early Libyans or Tjehenu were shown to be akin to the Egyptians (they were BLACK) while Libyans from the later periods, the Tamahu were white.

The Egyptians is an Afrasian language. The Afrasian language family has its origins in Africa, with Semetic being the only one that left the continent. The Egyptian language of course never left the continent, and the Berber languages were spoken first by the earlier black populations.

posted 21 October 2005 11:47 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
You mean Elvis*?!

I don't see how! Are you suggesting that blacks of West Africa have no more relation to blacks from another part of Africa-- the Nile Valley, as a white guy?!

Please explain how this is so?

---

posted 22 October 2005 08:03 AM            

------------------------------------------

wrong,by the way most of the NUBIANS remain free for a long time.
Egypt only conquered northern and upper nubia,they never conqured southern nubia,it remain free from egyptian control in the new kingdom.
The brits. and turks conqured for a short time nubia - a short time compared to egypt and when egypt conqured upper nubia it was only for less than 500 years and let's not forget rebellion from time to time.

Most nubians remain nubianized and proud nubians.
egyptianized nubians (mostly the upperclasses)in nubia DURING THE NAPATAN PERIOD were not that egyptianized as we think.
Current studies has inform us that even that group was nubian in outlook and world view still,so they were only to a certain extent egyptianized.

later as we all know by now even the upperclasses became more nubianized again during the late the napatan and later periods.scholars by the way say nubia was more creative during their longer history.

Even the period when there was more egyptain influence,scholars could still tell nubian art,costumes,buildings ,etc was still nubian and different in it's own right.This is during the napatan period but things became very nubianized again later.

It was a two way street,nubia to egypt and egypt to nubia.
It was a back and forth thing,and as we know nubia started it first since it is a older civilization and culture.

By the way southern nubia was never conquered by the arabs,so those nubians remain free until the brit and turk invasions,and there to a certain extent more level of freedom for the nubians in the sudan than modern egypt.
THE brits gave the sudan to the arabs in the first place,and the hill nubians were never conquered by anyone.

posted 22 October 2005 08:20 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
[B]
Well, what did the Libyans speak 4000 years ago - do you know?

---

posted 22 October 2005 08:33 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mansa Musa:
I'm going to assume this was a generalized statement and not directed at me but most of us on this board acknowledge that Magrheb and Levantine people were present in Lower Egypt.

---

who were the levantine ?

posted 22 October 2005 08:55 AM            

-------------------------------------------

posted 22 October 2005 01:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mansa Musa:
If you are bothered by Black Americans identifying with Ancient Egypt Horemheb that is your problem not mine. I have a general interest in history, all history whether it be ancient India, China, Japan, South America or pre-historic man.

---

posted 22 October 2005 05:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Horemheb:
The problem with trying to use language is that latin and greek came along much later.
Egypt is much older than Europe. What did the Libyans speak? Like the Egyptians they were caucasians and predated Greece and Rome. That was a good try though.

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posted 22 October 2005 07:37 PM            

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Originally posted by dahlak:
What part of east africa you are talking about? Some of you are misleading information about east africa. There were never slave trade in Eritrea, Ethiopia and Somalia. I never heard such thing. I think is wrong to put all east african in one pot. If you know history Ethiopia never been colonized. I am not talking for all east african, but this three countrys never existed a slavery. You die first before you land of in the hand of an enemy. I never heard in eritrean history there was a slave trade, never. This is absurd and too much of lies in this forum.

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I'm well aware that Ethiopia has never been colonized.

The Horn of Africa does not equal all of East Africa. The region known as the Port of East Africa (Modern Day Mozambique) was a major trading port for slaves as was the region occupied by Tanzania, Kenya and Uganda. All of that is part of East Africa, there was a functioning East African Slave trade organized by Muslims in medival times.

The East African Slave Trade

The African Diaspora

I can understand disagreements but please atleast give me a chance to explain my position before making accusations of lying.

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Originally posted by kenndo:
From Left to Right: Syrio-Palestinian (Levantine people), Nubian (Southern Nilotics), Libyan (Your Saharan Caucasiods), Egyptians (Northern Nilotics)

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Doesn't Nilotic mean people related the the Nile? The Nile also runs through the Sudan. Or are you speaking of Language?

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Originally posted by Mazigh:
who were the levantine ?

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The Levant refers to the region and people who's countries border the Eastern Mediterranean such as Syria,Jordan, Israel and Palestine.

In Ancient Egyptian times these people would refer to the Canaanites, Phonecians and Philistines as well as Hebrew and other groups that came to settle in the region.

On this portrait of nations wall relief the Levantine people would be those resembling the first man on the far left. Ancient Berbers and people of North West Africa (the Maghreb) would be the 3rd from the right just before the Egyptians. And ofcourse the one in Jet Black is a Nubian. All groups of people are portrayed in distinct dress with varying skintones and hairstyles. This is more or less an artistic convention. All these groups may have been present in Egypt but it is clear that the Egyptians recognized themselves as a unique nationality separate from these people. Levantine and Maghrebian people inhabiting the Delta were probably fully Egyptianized after Narmer united Upper and Lower Egypt and they were likely culturally different from the groups of people they migrated from.

So in my opinion it is not anymore correct to say that the Egyptians were of Asiatic or Berber descent because of a minority presence of such people anymore than it is to say Ethiopians in Greece makes Ancient Greece an African Civilization separate from the rest of Europe and its people. Berbers are of Cro-Magnoid descent so to call them "Caucasian" may or may not be valid considering whether or not Caucasiod is a valid racial classification. But, North Africa is not nor has ever been the personal domain of "Caucasiods". As it regards the settlement North Africa and West Asia the people of the Nile Valley have a different origin than that of the Berbers and the Asiatics.

posted 22 October 2005 08:54 PM            

I'd say the Ethiopian women below resemble the Egyptian women above a heck of a lot more than "Syrian" women as the dumb Hore claims!

Notice that the Somalian woman below is wearing the exact SAME style of braids as the wooden Egyptian lady above as well as the ladies in the relief!

posted 22 October 2005 09:01 PM            

The Berbers of Morocco
Keywords: africa, berber, berbers, dark continent, morocco, sahara, west africa

Explore the rich cultural heritage of the Berbers, the ancient and storied original inhabitants of Morocco, and enjoy one of the true cultural treasures of Morocco:
the Tafraoute Aday Music Festival by Hassan Ouakrim! This distinctive journey is offered exclusively through Marrakesh Voyage.

posted 22 October 2005 09:21 PM            

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Originally posted by beanpiee:
The Berbers are comprised of various ethnic groups, each with different customs, lifestyles [b]and even skin tones, which suggests that there was hanky panky going on with some of the sub-Saharan peoples at some point in the past. http://www.danheller.com/berbers.html

The Berbers of Morocco
Keywords: africa, berber, berbers, dark continent, morocco, sahara, west africa

Explore the rich cultural heritage of the Berbers, the ancient and storied original inhabitants of Morocco, and enjoy one of the true cultural treasures of Morocco:
the Tafraoute Aday Music Festival by Hassan Ouakrim! This distinctive journey is offered exclusively through Marrakesh Voyage.

[/B]

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posted 23 October 2005 12:55 AM            

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Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
Mansa, that African slave trade map makes it look like people were taken from Egypt and Sudan and brought to East Africa, then shipped to West Africa and sent here. i don't know if i am seeing the map wrong but it looks like slaves were taken from Egypt and Sudan.

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It looked somewhat like that to me aswell but if you look at the arrows it would seem that the map is saying East/Central Africans and some West Africans were mostly transported TOO Egypt as well as parts of Asia.

posted 23 October 2005 01:24 AM            

Does anyone object to us using these pics to, decide what the Ancient Egyptians looked like?

posted 23 October 2005 06:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by beanpiee:
The Berbers are comprised of various ethnic groups, each with different customs, lifestyles [b]and even skin tones, which suggests that there was hanky panky going on with some of the sub-Saharan peoples at some point in the past. http://www.danheller.com/berbers.html

The Berbers of Morocco
Keywords: africa, berber, berbers, dark continent, morocco, sahara, west africa

Explore the rich cultural heritage of the Berbers, the ancient and storied original inhabitants of Morocco, and enjoy one of the true cultural treasures of Morocco:
the Tafraoute Aday Music Festival by Hassan Ouakrim! This distinctive journey is offered exclusively through Marrakesh Voyage.

[/B]

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posted 23 October 2005 07:56 AM            

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Originally posted by Mansa Musa:
It looked somewhat like that to me aswell but if you look at the arrows it would seem that the map is saying East/Central Africans and some West Africans were mostly transported TOO Egypt as well as parts of Asia.

.

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well the arrows also extend from the Tanzania/Mozambique area to a larger cluster, then to West Africa. so based on that, it looks like slaves were brought there. which they weren't. so the same rule must apply to the other arrows and their locations. to me it looks like slaves were taken from Upper Egypt/Northern Sudan. but i don't know.

posted 23 October 2005 09:05 AM            

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Originally posted by Mazigh:

begin with sayying that the berber are diffirent, and place some animals with them!

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