posted 21 September 2005 09:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:

Eastern Africans are not a combination of caucasoid and negriod people. They have a specific phenotype based upon climatic adataptation,and not from mixing with ''caucasoids'' who I assume many infer came from Yemen. The only group that has such admixture in large percentages are the Amharan of Ethiopia. Somalis and Oromo are just about pure Cushic speaking Africans.

Some early anthropologist classified Cushic speaking Africans as being caucasoid. Most labels affixed to people like ''white'' and ''black'' are social labels.

---

posted 21 September 2005 09:34 PM            

quote:

---

Giza Rider:
Are you contradicting all major scientific studies?

---

As you've never presented any current, peer reviewed, scientific information, you have a lot of audacity making a remark like that to Ausar.

The Oromo are the largest Ethnic group in East Africa -they have over 80% Pn2-E3b and 12% Haplogroup A/B, making them well over 90% East African in Paternal lineage.

They have a negligible 3.8% West Asian J, per Semino [2004].

Now....where's your data?

posted 21 September 2005 09:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by dahlak:
You need to stop posting pictures, you said african arab and the old man is rashaida arab and i am eritrean rashaida and we are pure arabs. There are a lot egyptain look like east african. I am proud to be eritrean rashaida and i would like to ask you a question? have you ever been in Eritrea or any east african country???? By the way don`t compair arabs with whites, i don`t care what your race is don`t put all arabs in one pot. I am proud of my anciestry (Southern arabia), ancient Yemeni and were dark skin people. What is wrong with you people? There are a lot dark skin Arabs in Saudi, even in Iraq. In my tribes, we have light, brown and dark skin arabs and that does not mean the light skin person is different race than the dark skin person. You stupid to put african arab, we actually came from Saudi and you have no knowledge about that. You need to learn ancient history. We all came from Africa, the human race started in Africa. I will be ashamed, if some one would call me as a white. Like i said before ARABS ARE NOT WHITE. I am talking about for the true arabs, not for those who have identity problems.

---

dahlak...dont get angry...thats funny..

hes comparing an egyptian man and a rashida from eretria.. who happen to be recent migrants from saudia arabia and yemen and r minorities in ertria and surronding.....

african arab...LOL.... its funny how he tries to compare a true arab (african arab lol) to an egytian whether elite or not

whose the true arab...lmao

posted 21 September 2005 09:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
[b]A FEW MORE PICTURES OF EGYPTIANS, JUST FOR MY FRIEND WALK!

[/B]

---

They all look mixed..

posted 21 September 2005 09:42 PM            

quote:

---

You need to stop posting pictures, you said african arab and the old man is rashaida arab and i am eritrean rashaida and we are pure arabs.

---

Lol. Picture spammers are all the same.

They post more and more MISrepresentative pictures until they get caught.

Then they stop for awhile, out of sheer embarrassment.

Then they return to form and start up again.

Bad habits die hard.

posted 21 September 2005 09:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
[b]A FEW MORE PICTURES OF EGYPTIANS, JUST FOR MY FRIEND WALK!

[/B]

---

not to be disrepsectful...but those pics are giving me killer eye soars...

posted 21 September 2005 11:45 PM            

BTW, the BOLD LOOK is not meant to scare people, but rather it is a show of Pride and Confidence of the people of Egypt.
Once again, Egypt will rule the world, but for now we have to wait for the Americans to finish their term and then the Chinese.

quote:

---

Topic: pictures of people from all parts of Egypt

---

posted 21 September 2005 11:51 PM            

quote:

---

Are you contradicting all major scientific studies? Where do you come up with this info from, please provide some sources that refute all modern genetic studies that point out the actual make-up of most East Afric

---

For one I ask you to learn something about genetics. Notice I don't jump into conversations about genetics because I'm not qualified to answer them. Let's hear what geneticist Spencer Wells has to say about measuring racial admixture in people:

A: Like a lot of Americans, my family tradition is that I have some Indian blood, Cherokee and Mohawk, but we don?t know exactly how much ? 3/64ths or 1/16th or what have you. Is there any way to quantify the ancestry of a mixed-race person?

SW: We don?t really like to talk about races. We talk about lineages being at high frequencies in particular populations. Races really have no meaning biologically, certainly not genetically. Now, if you?re asking, ?Do I have ancestors who came from the indigenous groups living in North America?? we could address that. But at the moment it?s very difficult to talk about dividing your genome up into 17 percent whatever. There are companies out there that will do this for you, but I don?t necessarily buy the results they are giving you
http://utopia.utexas.edu/articles/alcalde/wells.html?sec=history&sub=other

Notice Wells says you can't measure racial admixture in people at all. Genetics is not that sophistcated yet to break down racial admixture or genomes in percentages.

posted 22 September 2005 01:09 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
This whole thread is supposed to be about pictures of Egyptians, so there should be no shame in showing the real people of Egypt and not just the few hand picked by the AFRO camp.

BTW, the [b]BOLD LOOK is not meant to scare people, but rather it is a show of Pride and Confidence of the people of Egypt.
Once again, Egypt will rule the world, but for now we have to wait for the Americans to finish their term and then the Chinese.

[QUOTE]
Topic: pictures of people from all parts of Egypt

---

To me the pics prove the diversity of egypt, the ppl you posted dont all look the same, some look mallautto, some look brown, med. etc.... You have not proven anything from your pics.

posted 22 September 2005 01:10 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
This whole thread is supposed to be about pictures of Egyptians,

---

Yet you wrote

quote:

---

Are you contradicting all major scientific studies? Where do you come up with this info from, please provide some sources that refute all modern genetic studies that point out the actual make-up of most East Africans.

---

Now that you were given the data you demanded, you having nothing to say and want to change the subject.

You were asked for data in return....and provide none.

You instigated a fight.... in a thread started by a teenage girl, but when your 'offer' is accepted...what do you do?

You turn tail and run. lol. Typical bully troll. Yeah, go back to your pictures now, but don't start any more fights you aren't prepared to finish.

posted 22 September 2005 01:59 AM            

Origin of Ethiopian genetic heterogeneity

In agreement with previous research, a new study observes the intermediate position of Ethiopians between Sub-Saharan Africans (Negroids) and Western Eurasians (Caucasoids); genetic heterogeneity of Ethiopians is found to be the result of admixture:

However, the reduction in Tn diversity does suggest that a population bottleneck occurred in Ethiopia, associated with a major out of Africa expansion(s), which parallels the conclusion made by Tishkoff et al. (1996) from analysis of the CD4 locus. Certainly our data are not incompatible with the argument from Tishkoff et al. (1996) that an element of the contemporary Ethiopian population may be descendants of the ancestral population that spawned the migration out of Africa. We also argue, however, that in addition to this early bottleneck event, later periods of admixture have played a major role in shaping the gene pool of Ethiopia, and its populations display both Eurasian and Sub-Saharan genetic influences.

These results confirms what I have stated on several occasions in the past, about the three major elements in the East African population, e.g.,:

Thus, it appears that a large fraction of present-day East African mitochondrial ancestry is derived from different populations than the ones that spawned non-Africans. This element is probably responsible for the introduction of the Negroid type in the region, which now forms a major element in the population, together with the pre-Negroid East Africans and more recent Caucasoid arrivals from across the Red Sea.

Annals of Human Genetics (OnlineEarly)

Ethiopia: between Sub-Saharan Africa and Western Eurasia

A. Lovell et al.

Summary

Ethiopia is central to population genetic studies investigating the out of Africa expansion of modern humans, as shown by Y chromosome and mtDNA studies. To address the level of genetic differentiation within Ethiopia, and its relationship to Sub-Saharan Africa and Eurasia, we studied an 8kb segment of the X-chromosome from 72 chromosomes from the Amhara, Oromo and Ethiopian Jews, and compared these results with 804 chromosomes from Middle Eastern, African, Asian and European populations, and 22 newly typed Saharawi. Within Ethiopia the two largest ethnic groups, the Amhara and Oromo, were not found to be statistically distinct, based on an exact test of haplotype frequencies. The Ethiopian Jews appear as an admixed population, possibly of Jewish origin, though the data remain equivocal. There is evidence of a close relationship between Ethiopian and Yemenite Jews, likely a result of indirect gene flow. Within an African and Eurasian context, the distribution of alleles of a variable Tn repeat, and the spread of haplotypes containing Africa-specific alleles, provide evidence of a genetic continuity from Sub-Saharan Africa to the Near East, and furthermore suggest that a bottleneck occurred in Ethiopia associated with an out of Africa expansion. Ethiopian genetic heterogeneity, as evidenced by principal component analysis of haplotype frequencies, most likely resulted from periods of subsequent admixture. While these results are from the analysis of one locus, we feel that in association with data from other marker systems they add a complementary perspective on the history of Ethiopia.

Link

posted on 3/05/2005 11:30:00 PM EET
No comments | No trackbacks | PermaLink

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:
[]

For one I ask you to learn something about genetics. Notice I don't jump into conversations about genetics because I'm not qualified to answer them. Let's hear what geneticist Spencer Wells has to say about measuring racial admixture in people:

A: Like a lot of Americans, my family tradition is that I have some Indian blood, Cherokee and Mohawk, but we don?t know exactly how much ? 3/64ths or 1/16th or what have you. Is there any way to quantify the ancestry of a mixed-race person?

SW: We don?t really like to talk about races. We talk about lineages being at high frequencies in particular populations. Races really have no meaning biologically, certainly not genetically. Now, if you?re asking, ?Do I have ancestors who came from the indigenous groups living in North America?? we could address that. But at the moment it?s very difficult to talk about dividing your genome up into 17 percent whatever. There are companies out there that will do this for you, but I don?t necessarily buy the results they are giving you
http://utopia.utexas.edu/articles/alcalde/wells.html?sec=history&sub=other

Notice Wells says you can't measure racial admixture in people at all. Genetics is not that sophistcated yet to break down racial admixture or genomes in percentages.

[]

---

posted 22 September 2005 02:20 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by multisphinx:
To me the pics prove the diversity of egypt, the ppl you posted dont all look the same, some look mallautto, some look brown, med. etc.... You have not proven anything from your pics.

---

posted 22 September 2005 02:24 AM            

Are Black Africans accepted by Egyptians in Egypt?

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
most Egyptians do at least show some black admixture, but a good many of them would certainly not be accepted into all white societies in America and would definitely be considered black.

this is more like average Egyptian:

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posted 22 September 2005 01:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceelgabo_11:
They all look mixed..

---

LOLThe last picture that Ceel, posted was a boy who is of mixed Somali and Italian!!

Sorry Giza but your picture spamm has backfired! Egyptians are indeed mixed between black Africans and non Africans! Sorry.

posted 22 September 2005 01:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Giza-Rider:

Also, nothing about this young girl, looks particuarly African (black) to me.

---

posted 22 September 2005 01:54 PM            

Ethiopia does show some admixture from the Near-East because of immigration from southern Arabia, but people that have the most mixture are the Amhara and Tigre who are a minority! The majority of East Africans like Oromo and Somali are very little admixture.

posted 22 September 2005 01:55 PM            

True, some East Africans have sharper facial features than some Egyptians, but that just proves that the two groups are not related. Also, Egyptians on average are much lighter than most East Africans.

quote:

---

Originally posted by leba:
Many of these north Egyptians look more non-white then most East Africans - White mixes...

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posted 22 September 2005 02:01 PM            

quote:

---

does anyone have pictures that show the populations in all parts of Egypt?

---

SHE WRITES:

quote:

---

those are not the average Upper Egyptians, Giza_rider. you're clearly very selective with the pics you post. those look more like Delta Egyptians.

---

THEN SHE GETS CORRECTED BY THE MODERATOR, BUT STILL NO HOPE FOR BLACK BIGOTS!!

quote:

---

ausar
Moderator
Posts: 4762
Registered: Feb 2003
posted 21 September 2005 04:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Most of the pictures that Giza posted are from Middle Egypt. Places like Minya,Fayoum,Sohag..etc.

The others are from the oasis areas or Cairo.

One was by a beach near Alexandria.

What would be useful is if a person could post pictures of Egyptians from each governate from the Delta down to Aswan. There are not many pictures of Egyptians online anyway and most come from tourists.

---

MIDDLE EGYPT IS PART OF UPPER EGYPT, FYI

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:LOLThe last picture that Ceel, posted was a boy who is of mixed Somali and Italian!!

Sorry Giza but your picture spamm has backfired! Egyptians are indeed mixed between black Africans and non Africans! Sorry.

---

posted 22 September 2005 02:32 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
Here is a little Genetics Research for you, please take a little time to read it.

Origin of Ethiopian genetic heterogeneity

In agreement with previous research, a new study observes the intermediate position of Ethiopians between Sub-Saharan Africans (Negroids) and Western Eurasians (Caucasoids); genetic heterogeneity of Ethiopians is found to be the result of admixture:

---

rotfl! You silly man. That is written by Greek Nationalist Dienekes Pontikos. He is not an anthropologist, geneticist, researcher or scientist of any sort. He is simply an obsessed racist nutcase and distortionist, driven to near insanity by the reality of African ancestry in modern Greece, and you are a fool for quoting either him or his twisted distortions of abstracts and trying to pass them off as 'research'.

posted 22 September 2005 02:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
[B]it's obvious, Giza_rider, that you are hand-picking the palest, whitest Egyptians you can find and passing them off as the real people of Egypt. accept it, EVERYONE IN EGYPT IS EGYPT'S REAL PEOPLE. you ruined my thread with picture spamming and you are disgusting me, and i am sure, everyone else.

dumbass.

---

posted 22 September 2005 02:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
it's obvious, Giza_rider, that you are hand-picking the palest, whitest Egyptians you can find and passing them off as the real people of Egypt. accept it, EVERYONE IN EGYPT IS EGYPT'S REAL PEOPLE. you ruined my thread with picture spamming and you are disgusting me, and i am sure, everyone else.

dumbass.

---

No, His pictures are actually how most Egyptians look like [arabic], I have been in Egypt so I know..

I highly doubt you're really Egyptian because you can't even tell the difference between Ethiopians and upper-Egyptians (omg). Where in Egypt are you from? Do you speak Arabic? Are you muslim?

posted 22 September 2005 02:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by leba:

No, His pictures are actually how most Egyptians look like [arabic], I have been in Egypt so I know..

I highly doubt you're really Egyptian because you can't even tell the difference between Ethiopians and upper-Egyptians (omg). Where in Egypt are you from? Do you speak Arabic? Are you muslim?

---

posted 22 September 2005 02:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
GLAD TO RUIN YOUR THREAD--

THAT WAS THE INTENTION!

EASY ON THE FOUL LANGUAGE--

LOSERS DON'T HAVE TO SWEAR OR CUSS

---

...when they can write in all caps, picture spam threads until they become unviewable, and engage in other childish attention seeking antics.

posted 22 September 2005 02:59 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
We are not trying to prove how "white" the Egyptians are, but to present a more realistic overview of how the average Egyptain looks like, away from the biased AFRO-SELECTIVE CAMP'S PICTURE SPAMMERS.

True, some East Africans have sharper facial features than some Egyptians, but that just proves that the two groups are not related. Also, Egyptians on average are much lighter than most East Africans.

---

Correction--"most east africans have sharper features then modern egyptians"...thats why the present modern day pop look no different then mullatos or afro-americans of mix ancestry....

i certainly would never mistaken an egyptian for an east africans (somalis,oromo afars) nor do they possess the same sharp aesthatic nor morphology...

the 2 pops seem very diff....due to the admixture of the near by pops...

great example of the boy...

likewise i know of many mixed somalis of northern european norwegian and brit...and have retain there "sharpness"...similarily since these pops of northern europe are known for there aquiline features similiar to east africa... and pass as europeans vs medits...

since the medits are hybrids already...would seemingly result for the blunt facial distortedness...

i dont want to pic spam so im not going to post pics...

itll probably destroy euro and hhis image of southern euros=northerners...and seeing a "hybrid" somali of northern heritage passing as an indig pop of the north...

posted 22 September 2005 03:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
no, i was born in the US and my parents and grandparents were too.

---

Very weird and suspicious, Most Africans came to the US after like 1970. Are you even Muslim?

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:
i just said Ethiopians and some Egyptians look similiar. i doubt you've been past the south of Cairo or you wouldn't say most Egyptians look like that.

---

Yes, I've and c'mon this is not what most looked like!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/A_u_s_A_R_KMT/Egyptiankidsb-1.jpg

More like this.

posted 22 September 2005 03:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
[B] ...when they can write in all caps, picture spam threads until they become unviewable, and engage in other childish attention seeking antics.

Oh yes, you are loser - big time, Giza Rider.

---

posted 22 September 2005 03:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
I REFUSE TO LOWER MYSELF TO YOUR LEVEL

---

Then just concentrate on using lower case type every now and then, that is, if your brain can handle such a complex task.

It won't make your 'thoughts' any less foolish. But at least you won't look like such a....silly little man.

posted 22 September 2005 03:20 PM            

[/B]

quote:

---

Originally posted by walklikeanegyptian:

no, i was born in the US and my parents and grandparents were too. i just said Ethiopians and some Egyptians look similiar. i doubt you've been past the south of Cairo or you wouldn't say most Egyptians look like that.

---

posted 22 September 2005 03:33 PM            

More like this.

posted 22 September 2005 03:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
[b]THE TRUTH IS STARTING TO EMERGE--

EGYPTIANS DID NOT IMMIGRATE TO THE U.S. UNTIL THE VERY LATE 60'S/EARLY 70'S.

I WOULD DOUBT IT VERY MUCH, IF THERE ARE THIRD/FOURTH GENERATION EGYPTAINS IN THE U.S.

LEBANESE, WERE EARLY IMMIGRANTS, BUT NOT THE EGYPTIANS, MUCH LESS SO THE UPPER EGYPTIANS.

THIS MUST BE A JOKE, AN EGYPTIAN WHO IS A BAPTIST, FOURTH GENERATION, AND DOES NOT SPEAK A WORD OF ARABIC, AND HAS NEVER BEEN TO EGYPT.

[/B]
[/B]

---

Do you really think that NO Egyptians set foot in the US until 1960???? Yeah, right.

posted 22 September 2005 07:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
rotfl! You silly man. That is written by Greek Nationalist Dienekes Pontikos. He is not an anthropologist, geneticist, researcher or scientist of any sort. He is simply an obsessed racist nutcase and [b]distortionist, driven to near insanity by the reality of African ancestry in modern Greece, and you are a fool for quoting either him or his twisted distortions of abstracts and trying to pass them off as 'research'.
[/B]

---

LMAO I thought his "source" looked familiar! At first I thought it was just an outdated study on East Africans, but now!!...

Gonad Rider, you messed yourself up for citing Dienekes Pontikos of all people!!

Pontikos is no scholar but a frustrated psuedo-scientist, and the fact that you cite HIM, says a lot about what your information is worth-- NOTHING!

I believe Cee, made his point a long time ago. Those Egyptians you posted look no different from Somalis who have mixed with Europeans! We rest our case, sorry Giza.

posted 22 September 2005 07:25 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
I believe Cee, made his point a long time ago. Those Egyptians you posted look no different from Somalis who have mixed with Europeans! We rest our case, sorry Giza.

---

posted 22 September 2005 08:08 PM            

Here's what other people should understand. During the 1960's many rural fellahin from both the Delta and Middle and Upper Egypt began to move into Cairo. These migrants turned many regions of Cairo into neighboorhoods with large urban farmland and still today you can go to the back alleys and see chickens,donkeys,and other farmy animals running around. So in a sense many of the lower class neighboorhoods are a melting pot of Delta fellahin and Egyptians from Upper Egypt. Mostly Delta fellahin,though. Some neighboorhoods like Imbaba and Boulaq abu Ella are mostly Saidis.

Most people who study modern Egypt don't understand that various parts of both the Delta and Middle Egypt have recent strong mixture with Berbers and bedouin Arabs. Many of these areas have even more distant mixture with Greeks,Turks,Armenians,Moroccans,and other groups.

During the Greco-Roman era many mercenary kleruchs comprised of Macedonians,Syrians,Carians settled in many parts of Middle Egypt including Fayoum. You had a Greco-Roman city around modern day Sohag called Ptolemis.

The Greek mercenaries and other foreign mercenaries were mainly males that intermarried with local Egyptian females. There were no laws against intermarriage with local Egyptians.

During the Middle Ages in Egypt[from 640 AD-1500] there were settlements of Arabs mainly in the Delta and some parts of Middle Egypt. The caliphs would often settle bedouin tribes from Yemen into areas like the Delta and in parts of Middle Egypt because this is where most of the rebellions were. During this period also Syrians,Armenians,Moroccans,Kurds,and other foreigners settled in the cities of al-Qahria[modern day Cairo].

Around approx 1100 AD Bedouins such as the Beni Hilal and Beni Sulaime were unleashed into parts of the Magreb[modern countries like Morocco,Libya,Algeria,Tunisa]. These local Bedouin tribes also mixed with the local nomadic Berber tribes. Most of the modern Western Bedouins in Egypt are heavily mixed with Berbers. Many like the Awlad Ali settled certain parts of the Delta and have become fellahin. Before this it was mostly the berber tribe of the Luwata that controlled the Oasis areas and parts of the Delta.

At the same time many of these same Bedouins heavily mixed with Berbers settled parts of Middle Egypt around areas like Beni Suef,Asyut,and Minya. Remeber you can sometimes tell that these villages have bedouin origin by their names.

For instance Nag Hammadi. Nag=settlement of bedouins. Hammadi is the name of a branch of the Beni Suleiam bedouins.

My references for the following are:

Sons of Ishmael:The Bedouins of Egypt by George Murray

Hope this clarifies some points.

posted 22 September 2005 08:56 PM            

The site is back up. The problem is with phbb.

posted 22 September 2005 10:45 PM            

quote:

---

have a question how come scientist will hold double standerds alot of my family members can look like eastern africans. But there caucsion how is this. But caucsion is also made up u cant put indians and packistan people in the same boat it dosent make sense to me

---

The term ''caucasian'' comes from Johannes Blumebach who placed many unrelated people into this category. The reason I guess that some people placed Horn of Africans into this category is because of their bone structure. Another reason being also the outdated Hamitic myth proposed by Carl Seligman. Most anthropologist would agree that the physical features of the people of the Horn of Africa is not due to intermixture with Western Asians but because of a morphological adaptation to climate. See the works of Stephen Molnar and Jean Hiernaux. Both contend that Horn of African's look are indigenous and not from intermixture.

posted 23 September 2005 02:52 AM            

Here are some nice pictures of Egyptian youth:

Introduction

Mona al-Kotb, 19, is one of the first ever teenagers in Egypt specially trained to teach their friends the facts of life.

In Egypt the term ?sex education? is deeply controversial, school biology lessons often skip reproduction altogether and most teenagers rely on word of mouth to learn the basics about their own bodies.

But in Shibin al-Kom, the capital of the conservative and largely rural province of Munufia, peer educators are breaking the silence on reproductive health.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_learning_the_facts_of_life_in_egypt/html/1.stm

posted 23 September 2005 10:30 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by bandon19:
yes mali alot of east african can look like african americans. But not the ones with high cheek bones and the long forhead. But i dont think 50 cent and will smith and kobe bryant looks east african and every black person has some admixture.

---

There are allot of Kobe Bryant look alike in North East Africa, but I don't think you will find anyone that looks like 50 cent or even will Smith who looks resemble West African just little bit lighter skinned...