Y-chromosome variation in Jordan

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Author	Topic: Y-chromosome variation in Jordan
Thought2 Member Posts: 2033 Registered: May 2004	posted 07 September 2005 12:13 AM Isolates in a corridor of migrations: a high-resolution analysis of Y-chromosome variation in Jordan. J Hum Genet. 2005 Sep 2 Flores C, Maca-Meyer N, Larruga JM, Cabrera VM, Karadsheh N, Gonzalez AM. Departamento de Genetica, Facultad de Biologia, Universidad de La Laguna, 38271, Tenerife, Spain, amglez@ull.es. A high-resolution, Y-chromosome analysis using 46 binary markers has been carried out in two Jordan populations, one from the metropolitan area of Amman and the other from the Dead Sea, an area geographically isolated. Comparisons with neighboring populations showed that whereas the sample from Amman did not significantly differ from their Levantine neighbors, the Dead Sea sample clearly behaved as a genetic outlier in the region. Its high R1*-M173 frequency (40%) has until now only been found in northern Cameroonian samples. This contrasts with the comparatively low presence of J representatives (9%), which is the modal clade in Middle Eastern populations, including Amman. The Dead Sea sample also showed a high presence of E3b3a-M34 lineages (31%), which is only comparable to that found in Ethiopians. Although ancient and recent ties with sub-Saharan and eastern Africans cannot be discarded, it seems that isolation, strong drift, and/or founder effects are responsible for the anomalous Y-chromosome pool of this population. These results demonstrate that, at a fine scale, the smooth, continental clines detected for several Y-chromosome markers are often disrupted by genetically divergent populations. IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 2033 Registered: May 2004	posted 07 September 2005 12:43 AM quote: Originally posted by Thought2: Although ancient and recent ties with sub-Saharan and eastern Africans cannot be discarded.... Thought Writes: Another line of evidence that the Levant was an ancient conduit of Black Africans reaching into Asia and Southern Europe. IP: Logged
Evil Euro Member Posts: 819 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 07 September 2005 06:41 AM quote: Originally posted by Thought2: Another line of evidence that the Levant was an ancient conduit of Black Africans reaching into Asia and Southern Europe. Only if you consider R1-M173 a "Sub-Saharan" marker. And only if you consider ancient East Africans "Black". And only if you invent a reference to Southern Europe. And only if you ignore the rest of the sentence that you quoted: "...it seems that isolation, strong drift, and/or founder effects are responsible for the anomalous Y-chromosome pool of this population."* Dumb, distorting ape. IP: Logged
yazid904 Member Posts: 181 Registered: May 2005	posted 07 September 2005 09:59 AM Euro, Hasn't it been proved through human migration patterns along with genotyping that the Fertile Crescent (modern day Middle East?) was a push off point to areas of the land mass known known as Asia and Europe. Through Asia to Kazakhstan (a founder gene that peopled modern day Europe) and through time, genetic drift takes place to produce the varies genotyping frequences. Don't you think that natural barriers like mountains allow genetic drift to stifle (give birth and allow for more 'native' population to develop more of founder gene to thrive. Example of Basques, Kabyle Berbers, Shouf area where for that particular group all the samples may show frequency of 85% (homogeneity-all related) vs an area where founder effect in that group will be 25% meaning the former has less contact with outisde 'forces' while the latter shows frequent contact with said forces! Perhaps we can make references to genotyping without inducing 'black' and 'white' since those words seem to release a high degree of hostility in some people! Pavlovian conditioning! Read the great poet Kabir and he will soothe the soul! hoda hafez IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 2033 Registered: May 2004	posted 08 September 2005 10:14 PM quote: Originally posted by Evil Euro: *Only if you consider R1-M173 a "Sub-Saharan" marker.** Thought Writes: R1*-M173 dates to a time when Eurasians carried phenotypes similar to modern Sub-Saharan Africans. IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 2033 Registered: May 2004	posted 08 September 2005 10:16 PM quote: Originally posted by Evil Euro: And only if you consider ancient East Africans "Black". Thought Writes: The U.S. government and the Census Bureau consider East Africans Black and so do most mainstream Americans. Only a select few loony-tune Medicentrics who now know that Greeks have substantial East African bloodlines try and CHANGE the definition of what it means to be Black. [This message has been edited by Thought2 (edited 08 September 2005).] IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 2033 Registered: May 2004	posted 08 September 2005 10:19 PM quote: Originally posted by Evil Euro: And only if you invent a reference to Southern Europe. Thought Writes: The genetic record is CLEAR - Greeks descend from mesolithic Sub-Saharan African and Middle Eastern men and mesolithic European women. IP: Logged
Evil Euro Member Posts: 819 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 09 September 2005 06:21 AM quote: Originally posted by Thought2: The U.S. government and the Census Bureau [and] mainstream Americans... ...are not scientists. quote: The genetic record is CLEAR - Greeks descend from... ...Caucasoids: Craniometry of Ancient Greeks: Y-chromosomes of Modern Greeks: IP: Logged
Djehuti Member Posts: 1642 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 09 September 2005 03:13 PM quote: Originally posted by Thought2: The U.S. government and the Census Bureau [and] mainstream Americans... Stupid-Euro says: "...are not scientists. " So! Since when is the subjective racial adjective of "black" ever used in science?? And what nutcase (other than you of course for the reasons Thought listed) would consider East Africans to not be black??!! If East Africans aren't black then what are they, white??!! ROTFLMAO IP: Logged
walklikeanegyptian Member Posts: 334 Registered: Jul 2005	posted 09 September 2005 03:37 PM oh this will be funny. in my social studies textbook, my friend Tiffany's little sis saw Egyptians (she doesn't know i am egyptian) and she said "wow, they look like darker versions of us!" and it's weird because me, Tiffany, and her sister are average skin tone for blacks in America and that a little kid with no racial prejudice would recognize Egyptians as us. i told them i was Egyptian after and they were amazed. IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 2033 Registered: May 2004	posted 09 September 2005 11:36 PM quote: Originally posted by Djehuti: ...subjective racial adjective of "black"... Thought Writes: While the North American term "Black" is subjective it is seldom used by Black people in any racial sense. I don't know many Black Americans who don't recognize the heterogenous (and hence non-racial) nature of the Black community. IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 2033 Registered: May 2004	posted 09 September 2005 11:39 PM quote: Originally posted by Evil Euro: ...Caucasoids: [b]Craniometry of Ancient Greeks: Y-chromosomes of Modern Greeks: [/B] Thought Writes: Typical non-sense. A chart of phenotypes tells us LITTLE about GENETIC lineage. Posting another chart with NO Africans on it tells us little about the relationship between Sub-Saharan Africans and modern Greeks. IP: Logged
D_ManningJr Member Posts: 49 Registered: Sep 2005	posted 10 September 2005 01:02 AM delete [This message has been edited by D_ManningJr (edited 10 September 2005).] IP: Logged
D_ManningJr Member Posts: 49 Registered: Sep 2005	posted 10 September 2005 01:20 AM The way how I read this map Upper Egyptians and some Europeans are closer to Somalis. I see it in the inverse of Evil Euro's view. Upper Egyptians, English, Greek and Neolithic Portugese are closer to East African Somalis than to Northwest Europeans on Brace's craniometric map. I told Dienekes the same thing and I'll Evil the Euro the same, relationships are not one-sided. If Evil Euro believes that Somalis are closer to Europeans, he must equally concur that Europeans are closer to Somalis. In fact it would make more sense to say that Europeans are closer to Somalis, after all *E3b1 has an East African origin in the Horn of Africa and E3b1 alpha is simply a derived subclade of the East African one. I'm going to take this approach with him as I did with Dienekes. Relationships go two ways, I don't know why Eurocentric minded people take the approach that someone is more related to them. Whatever is good one way must be true the other way around. Perhaps Evil Euro will consign that Greeks and Neolithic Portugal people are closer to Somalis than to Northwest Europeans. If Evil Euro refuses to accept that Greeks, English and Neolithic Portugal people are closer to Black East African Somalis he likewise has to forfeit and abandon his position that Somalis are closer to Europeans. [This message has been edited by D_ManningJr (edited 10 September 2005).] IP: Logged
Evil Euro Member Posts: 819 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 10 September 2005 06:44 AM quote: Originally posted by Thought2: Typical non-sense. A chart of phenotypes tells us LITTLE about GENETIC lineage. Posting another chart with NO Africans on it tells us little about the relationship between Sub-Saharan Africans and modern Greeks. Typical lack of answers. The craniometric plot proves that Greeks are morphologically Caucasoid. The Y-chromosome plot proves that Greeks are genetically European. Case closed. IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 2033 Registered: May 2004	posted 29 September 2005 09:22 PM quote: Originally posted by Thought2: Isolates in a corridor of migrations: a high-resolution analysis of Y-chromosome variation in Jordan. J Hum Genet. 2005 Sep 2 Flores C, Maca-Meyer N, Larruga JM, Cabrera VM, Karadsheh N, Gonzalez AM. populations. Thought Posts: "The possibility that the Dead Sea and Cameroon are isolated remnants of a past broad human expansion deserves further studies." "All these evidences point to the Dead Sea as an isolated region perhaps with past ties to Sub-Saharan and eastern Africa." IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 2734 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 30 September 2005 02:34 PM Another stupid post by Thoughtless. He takes one piece of information (much of which he probably does not understand) and draws unfopund conclusions. Must be...might be...could be...may be...indication of.... Same old song and dance. IP: Logged
mali Member Posts: 230 Registered: May 2005	posted 30 September 2005 02:41 PM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: Another stupid post by Thoughtless. He takes one piece of information (much of which he probably does not understand) and draws unfopund conclusions. Must be...might be...could be...may be...indication of.... Same old song and dance. ther with your plop of uselessness... so professor produce valid information and correct others... or is it the u probably dont understand and ur playing the fiddle upright???? IP: Logged
mali Member Posts: 230 Registered: May 2005	posted 30 September 2005 02:44 PM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: Another stupid post by Thoughtless. He takes one piece of information (much of which he probably does not understand) and draws unfopund conclusions. Must be...might be...could be...may be...indication of.... Same old song and dance. The result of forigners having an EASY pASS in the US Edu.... They Just hand out those graduate degress to any1... no ridget guidliness for admiss or a naturalized citi.... ooh i would have swollowed if u were a byproduct of the NORTH... IP: Logged
Super car Member Posts: 1802 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 30 September 2005 02:49 PM quote: Originally posted by mali: ther with your plop of uselessness... so professor produce valid information and correct others... or is it the u probably dont understand and ur playing the fiddle upright???? It is a wonder that anyone would call a babbling internet crackpot something as decent as a "professor"...or is this now a way of turning this respectable word into a pejorative? IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 2033 Registered: May 2004	posted 01 October 2005 08:48 PM quote: Originally posted by Thought2: "The possibility that the Dead Sea and Cameroon are isolated remnants of a past broad human expansion deserves further studies." Thought Writes: Central Africans carry the most pristine/least derived lineage of the defining European bloodline - haplogroup R. I wonder how this fits into Evil E's "Racial genes" theory. LOL! IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 4401 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 02 October 2005 06:02 PM ^^ The reasons for this are clear. * R1 has been in Cameroon for 30k years. 30k years ago, there were no white people anywhere, including Europe. Early "Cro-mags" in Europe resemble Africans and Australians as much or more than they do modern Euros [C. Stringer]. * Y chromosome does not directly influence bone morphology. [P. Underhill] * Founder effect can easily lead to situations where current populations do not necessarily resemble their Y lineage forebearers. [Keita] and... * Race typologies are worse than useless, human physical variation is not biologically obliged to concord with contrived racial ideologies. [Brace, Hiernaux, Keita] IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 2033 Registered: May 2004	posted 02 October 2005 06:42 PM quote: Originally posted by rasol: ^^ The reasons for this are clear. * R1 has been in Cameroon for 30k years. 30k years ago, there were no white people anywhere, including Europe. Early "Cro-mags" in Europe resemble Africans and Australians as much or more than they do modern Euros [C. Stringer]. * Y chromosome does not directly influence bone morphology. [P. Underhill] * Founder effect can easily lead to situations where current populations do not necessarily resemble their Y lineage forebearers. [Keita] and... * Race typologies are worse than useless, human physical variation is not biologically obliged to concord with contrived racial ideologies. [Brace, Hiernaux, Keita] Thought Writes: Stellar post! IP: Logged

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