posted 06 August 2005 01:33 PM            

quote:

---

I asked Erroneous: Please explain how E3b is more closely related to R1 than to E3a.

Eroneous says:

When did I ever claim that? Here's what I actually said about those haplogroups:

"R1a and R1b split much more recently [than E3a and E3b], and both went in the same direction (toward Europe). A more a propos analogy is with R and Q. Those two lineages split from M45 in Central Asia about the same time E3b and E3a split from PN2. Q went east and became associated with Mongoloids, while R traveled west and became associated with Caucasoids. Same situation as with E3a going southwest to become Negroid-affiliated, and E3b traveling northeast OOA to become Caucasoid-affiliated."

---

That is very interesting answer which leads me to wonder what his definition of race is?

Clearly without any debate the R1 clade is commonly referred to as Caucasian. You have already defined E3a as Negroid. If you then define E3b as Caucasian then it follows that E3b is more closely related to R1 clade than to E3a being that the latter is in a different race. Most people define race as simply common ancestry, history and geographic origin. What definition of race are you using to allow for the classification of R1 and E3b in the same group since this is not copesetic with the usual definition of race.

posted 06 August 2005 01:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
That is very interesting answer which leads me to wonder what his definition of race is?

---

Your question was specifically about cladistic relationships in genetics.

We've discussed in depth the history of the physical characteristics of Africans and Europeans: right here.

posted 07 August 2005 07:34 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Clearly without any debate the R1 clade is commonly referred to as Caucasian. You have already defined E3a as Negroid. If you then define E3b as Caucasian then it follows that E3b is more closely related to R1 clade than to E3a being that the latter is in a different race. Most people define race as simply common ancestry, history and geographic origin. What definition of race are you using to allow for the classification of R1 and E3b in the same group since this is not copesetic with the usual definition of race.

---

We're talking about correlation here, not causation. The relationships of the clades are immaterial. When E3b and E3a -- and R and Q -- split from one another, modern races hadn't formed yet. The current affiliation of each haplogroup is based on where its carriers migrated and developed their racial traits. E3a remained within Sub-Saharan Africa (Negroid), Q traveled East and ultimately to the Americas (Mongoloid), and both E3b and R headed to North Africa/West Asia/Europe (Caucasoid).

That's why the Northeast African populations with substantial amounts of E3b plot closer to Eurasians than to E3a-carrying Sub-Saharans:

Both genetically . . .

And craniometrically . . .

posted 07 August 2005 10:09 AM            

quote:

---

Clearly without any debate the R1 clade is commonly referred to as Caucasian

---

Oh Really?

* Europeans have R1 in average frequencies of 80%.

* North Cameroonians have R1 in frequencies as high as 95%.

* Greeks have more African E3b and West Asian J than R1.

* Andamans of South Asia carry 100% EurAsian lineages w/no African lineages, unlike southern Europeans.

* The Buba clan South African Jews have 56% Cohen Modal Haplotype:

* Datoga, one of East Africa's most ancient peoples - 63% East AFrican E3b Lineages, more than the Kabyle:

* Kabyle ancestry = West European female + West Asian Arab female + East African male + Arab male.

Molecular biologists do not assign Y chromosomes to races.

posted 07 August 2005 11:00 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by awale:
man you people are obsessed with E3b yet you guys have 0% E3b.

---

So do you, Yemeni!

Besides you seem to be obsessed with who is and who isn't "negroid" when you fail to define what a negroid is!!

posted 07 August 2005 11:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by awale:
man you people are obsessed with E3b yet you guys have 0% E3b.

---

posted 07 August 2005 11:31 AM            

Kivisild, et al on E3b1, which originated among Black East Africans: it is rare or absent in Southern Arabia.

posted 07 August 2005 11:43 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
So do you, Yemeni!

Besides you seem to be obsessed with who is and who isn't "negroid" when you fail to define what a negroid is!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by relaxx:

Mr J haplogroup....who told you you had E3b, you know that you are not pure Somali, you admitted that...Mr J....
Relaxx

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Source of Awale's apparent [and misdirected] anger?

---

rasol i know it hurts but E3b is not Congoid/Negroid like you wish.

posted 07 August 2005 11:48 AM            

quote:

---

E3b is not Congoid/Negroid

---

Non-sequitur, as Y chromosomes don't have "races." E3b is sub-saharan African in origin - PA Underhill

Once again instead of trolling in effort to vent your anger, which clearly doesn't work, please present genetic data of relevance to the thread.

posted 07 August 2005 11:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Non-sequitur, as Y chromosomes don't have "races." E3b is sub-saharan African in origin - PA Underhill

Once again instead of trolling in effort to vent your anger, which clearly doesn't work, please present genetic data of relevance to the thread.

---

since when are geographical terms a race…

posted 07 August 2005 12:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by awale:
Since when are geographical terms a race…

---

Y chromosomes are generally classified by geography, and not into "race" which is irrelevant. Like Erroneous, your problem is complete ignorance of the basics of biology.

You spend too much time at Dodona, lowering your mental capacity.

Here is what you should do?

Take some courses at University in America on population genetics.

Then we can have a civil discussion.

Until then...please don't spam up the threads with your childishness.

posted 07 August 2005 12:25 PM            

Though the Eb* series is African, at some point it left its origin and ended up in place x. It became a founder gene in its new geography and with subsequent migration(s) / back migrations influenced by diet and geography, and through isolation, developed into its present state. One can say in some locations, it was 'bred out' (0% in some areas meaning that area no longer received the gene while areas with x% and higher!, with the greater being of more recent lineage.

posted 07 August 2005 01:02 PM            

Some points of clarification if you don't mind.

E3b originates in Sub-saharan East Africa.

The oldest lineages: E3b proper, are found south of the horn from tanzania down thru south africa and among speakers of Cushitic, Nilo Saharan, Khoisan and Bantu languages.

Ancient horn populations such as the Oromo, Borana and Somali have both original underived E3b lineage and older clusters of a directly descendant lineage - E3b1 gamma.

E3b1 gamma is found only in East Africa, it is not found either in southern Arabia, the levantine or Greeks.

E3b and E3b1 spread from East Africa into North Africa in the Pleistocene.

E3b1 spread down the nile and into the levant in the Holocene, and into Greece as E3b1 alpha in the Neolithic.

E3b2 is descendant from E3b [not E3b1] and spread from North East Africa to NorthWest Africa, and thence into Iberia/SouthWest Europe during the Moorish occupation.

E3b1 and E3b2 are found in signficant frquency as far West as Mali and in low frequency as far West as Senegal, indicative of several East to West African population expansions linking populations such as the Beja of the Nile Valley to the Taureg of Niger.

posted 07 August 2005 02:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
* Greeks have more African E3b and West Asian J than R1.

---

You can say that again. We've seen how even the quite fantastic but insignificant hope that females carry male sex chromosomes, has not, in one bit, been able to assist in altering this reality.

posted 07 August 2005 03:01 PM            

Making it clear that the relation between East Africans like Somalis and West Africans like Yorubas, is the same as that between Ukrainians and the English.

posted 07 August 2005 05:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
And again, E3a carried by West Africans is a sister clade of E3b, just as R1a carried by Eastern Europeans is a sister clade of R1b carried by Western Europeans...

---

which is of course quite significant to the relationship between Africans, i.e., in light of an uneducated claim regarding one group of (indigenous) Africans not being related others; but rather to non-Africans, particularly since haplogroup E is typically African. E3b obviously has much closer ties with E3a than any other haplogroup, as adequately reflected by this:

quote:

---

E3a --- SRY10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, M145, M213, Yap, SRY4064, M96, P29, P2, DYS391p, M2, [E3A]

E3b --- SRY10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, M145, M213, Yap, SRY4064, M96, P29, P2, DYS391p, M35, [E3b]

Contrast with European R1b:

R1B --- SRV10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, P14, M89, M9, M45, M74, P27, 92R7, M207, UTY-1, M173. P25

---

Not being able to see the significance of the above, with regards to the closeness b/n E3b and E3a, is simply symptomatic of illiteracy.

posted 08 August 2005 07:26 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Great Pretender...:
Non-sequitur, as Y chromosomes don't have "races."

Y chromosomes are generally classified by geography, and not into "race" which is irrelevant.

---

...pretending not to see the evidence that proves him wrong:

"Marked differences in Y-SNP allele frequencies between continental populations can be used to predict the biogeographic origin of a man's ancestral paternal lineage. Using 627 samples collected from individuals within the UK with pale-skinned Caucasian, dark-skinned Caucasian, African/Caribbean, South Asian, East Asian or Middle Eastern appearance we demonstrate that an individual's Y-SNP haplogroup is also strongly correlated with their physical appearance. Furthermore, experimental evaluation of the Marligen Signet Y-SNP kit in conjunction with the Luminex 100 detection instrument indicates that reliable and reproducible haplogrouping results can be obtained from 1 ng or more of target template derived from a variety of forensic evidence types including, blood, saliva and post-coital vaginal swabs. The test proved highly male-specific with reliable results being generated in the presence of a 1000-fold excess of female DNA, and no anomalous results were observed during degradation studies despite a gradual loss of typable loci. Hence, Y-SNP haplogrouping has considerable potential forensic utility in predicting likely ethnic appearance." (Wetton et al. 2005)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Other Pretending Apes:
which is of course quite significant to the relationship between Africans, i.e., in light of an uneducated claim regarding one group of (indigenous) Africans not being related others; but rather to non-Africans, particularly since haplogroup E is typically African. E3b obviously has much closer ties with E3a than any other haplogroup

[ . . . ]

Yes. And again, E3a carried by West Africans is a sister clade of E3b, just as R1a carried by Eastern Europeans is a sister clade of R1b carried by Western Europeans.

Making it clear that the relation between East Africans like Somalis and West Africans like Yorubas, is the same as that between Ukrainians and the English.

---

R1a and R1b split much more recently [than E3a and E3b], and both went in the same direction (toward Europe). A more a propos analogy is with R and Q. Those two lineages split from M45 in Central Asia about the same time E3b and E3a split from PN2. Q went east and became associated with Mongoloids, while R traveled west and became associated with Caucasoids. Same situation as with E3a going southwest to become Negroid-affiliated, and E3b traveling northeast OOA to become Caucasoid-affiliated.

----------

We're talking about correlation here, not causation. The relationships of the clades are immaterial. When E3b and E3a -- and R and Q -- split from one another, modern races hadn't formed yet. The current affiliation of each haplogroup is based on where its carriers migrated and developed their racial traits. E3a remained within Sub-Saharan Africa (Negroid), Q traveled East and ultimately to the Americas (Mongoloid), and both E3b and R headed to North Africa/West Asia/Europe (Caucasoid).

That's why the Northeast African populations with substantial amounts of E3b plot closer to Eurasians than to E3a-carrying Sub-Saharans:

Both genetically . . .

And craniometrically . . .

posted 08 August 2005 08:29 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
And again, E3a carried by West Africans is a sister clade of E3b, just as R1a carried by Eastern Europeans is a sister clade of R1b carried by Western Europeans...

---

quote:

---

Supercar writes: Not being able to see the significance of the above, with regards to the closeness b/n E3b and E3a, is simply symptomatic of illiteracy.

---

posted 08 August 2005 10:51 AM            

quote:

---

E3a --- SRY10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, M145, M213, Yap, SRY4064, M96, P29, P2, DYS391p, M2, [E3A]

E3b --- SRY10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, M145, M213, Yap, SRY4064, M96, P29, P2, DYS391p, M35, [E3b]

---

The stupid mutt talks about others "pretending", what the heck does he mean??

posted 08 August 2005 11:00 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
Yeah and don't forget

E3a --- SRY10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, M145, M213, Yap, SRY4064, M96, P29, P2, DYS391p, [b]M2, [E3A]

E3b --- SRY10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, M145, M213, Yap, SRY4064, M96, P29, P2, DYS391p, M35, [E3b]

Evil Euro is a dumb canine pretending to be an intelligent human, now how entertaining is that?!!

---

Wonder where Professor H's dog Krissy is?

She'd rip EuroMutt's head off and pee down his throat.

Speaking of which.....

SNP markers and Y chromsome clades

posted 08 August 2005 11:54 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
We're talking about correlation here, not causation. The relationships of the clades are immaterial. When E3b and E3a -- and R and Q -- split from one another, modern races hadn't formed yet. The current affiliation of each haplogroup is based on where its carriers migrated and developed their racial traits. E3a remained within Sub-Saharan Africa (Negroid), Q traveled East and ultimately to the Americas (Mongoloid), and both E3b and R headed to North Africa/West Asia/Europe (Caucasoid).

That's why the Northeast African populations with substantial amounts of E3b plot closer to Eurasians than to E3a-carrying Sub-Saharans:

Both genetically . . .

And craniometrically . . .

---

First: As I had already exposed you on, modern day North Africans like the Kabyles are not actually African. They are primarily non-African and thus have non-African traits. Genetics shows what we already know from history: a systematic mixing of North African males with non-African females. Here we have genetic evidence supporting the Afrocentric claims that North Africans imported a large number of Eurasian women which resulted in the mixed race of people in North Africa today. How much clearer evidence is needed of this. This completely supports the Biblical assertian of the lust of the North Africans for Hebrew women.

Again, please explain how E3b is closer related to R1 than to E3a. The fact that E3b mated with non-African females at a high rate doesn't change the origin, history and ancestry of E3b (race). Also, what time frame are you using to classify people into a particular race?

posted 08 August 2005 12:09 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Non-sequitur, as Y chromosomes don't have "races." E3b is sub-saharan African in origin - PA Underhill

Once again instead of trolling in effort to vent your anger, which clearly doesn't work, please present genetic data of relevance to the thread.

[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 07 August 2005).]

---

posted 08 August 2005 12:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Can E3b be defined as a group of people that have a common geographic origin, history and ancestry?

---

It is a mutation on a Y chromsome, passed directly from father to son, and so by definition is a common shared ancestry.

quote:

---

If we cannot corelate E3b in such a way

---

Again non-sequitur.

The above: what you asked for, was a definition, not a correlation. And neither your question nor non-sequitur conclusion bears logical relationship to what you are supposedly responding to.

It's important to master the rules of logic in intellectual discourse.

If we don't, the answers given are mismatched to the questions asked, and the conclusions drawn are in error...it's just sloppy thinking.

quote:

---

Also, I realize there's a lot of gray areas.

---

You are absolutely right! But if you are serious about learning, then you have to do more than argue genetics with a moron who thinks women have Y chromosome.

If you do not know the facts of genetics, then even though you may "win" the argument you will still be less informed for it.

If you're interested in correlations in genetics, and how to properly assess them then I recommend the following:

DNA: secret of life, James D. Watson

From p. 252 Because of the recent African Origin of all humans....what little genetic diversity there is does not correlate well, for the most part, with "race".

posted 08 August 2005 02:21 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
You are absolutely right! But if you are serious about learning, then you have to do more than argue genetics with a moron who thinks women have Y chromosome.

If you do not know the facts of genetics, then even though you may "win" the argument you will still be less informed for it.

If you're interested in correlations in genetics, and how to properly assess them then I recommend the following:

DNA: secret of life, James D. Watson

From p. 152 Because of the recent African Origin of all humans....what little genetic diversity there is does not correlate well, for the most part, with "race".

I strongly recommend reading it, before "arguing" over it.

---

I am not interested in debating semantics. I already know that the discussion of race is spurious at best. I am trying my best to understand the points being made on both sides. A juror must listen to both sides to make an educated judgement.

Obviously a mutation in a sex gene does not mean that the person carrying this mutation has traits that are any different than a person that doesn't carry the mutation. Certainly Mitochondria DNA has absolutely nothing to do with physical traits. However, if you are like me and classify race based on common ancestry, place of origin and shared history, then these mutations do offer a glimpse at an answer to these questions (who am I most related to, where do I come from, what history do my ancestors share with others of the same kind). If you are like Erroneous and try to define race not on relatedness but on shear facial features, well, if he wants to look foolish then let him.

Again: who is closer related (common ancestor, common origin, common history);

E3b to E3a or E3b to R1?

Erroneous would have us to believe that E3b is closer related to R1 since they appear to have the same something? I would like to hear is point but so far I have heard nothing but dribble.

posted 08 August 2005 02:25 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Wonder where Professor H's dog Krissy is?

She'd rip EuroMutt's head off and pee down his throat.

---

posted 08 August 2005 02:41 PM            

quote:

---

some claptrap by Mussolini's tiny little ginney dick:

R1a and R1b split much more recently [than E3a and E3b], and both went in the same direction (toward Europe). A more a propos analogy is with R and Q. Those two lineages split from M45 in Central Asia about the same time E3b and E3a split from PN2. Q went east and became associated with Mongoloids, while R traveled west and became associated with Caucasoids. Same situation as with E3a going southwest to become Negroid-affiliated, and E3b traveling northeast OOA to become Caucasoid-affiliated.

---

Immaterial wop doodle. shitty ginney pussy, it isn't surprising that being without a brain cell, you don't see what everyone else sees, which is that, R1 is no where near as close as E3a is, to E3b!

quote:

---

E3a --- SRY10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, M145, M213, Yap, SRY4064, M96, P29, P2, DYS391p, M2, [E3A]

E3b --- SRY10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, M145, M213, Yap, SRY4064, M96, P29, P2, DYS391p, M35, [E3b]

Contrast with European R1b:

R1B --- SRV10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, P14, M89, M9, M45, M74, P27, 92R7, M207, UTY-1, M173. P25

---

The issue here is Closeness In Relationship, and the dummy blows hot air about 'splitting', with no direction in sight. It has got to be that wasteland ginney pussy calls a head.

Remember, that advice about getting a single brain cell...the clock is ticking.

posted 08 August 2005 03:46 PM            

quote:

---

Osirion writes: but so far I have heard nothing but dribble.

---

quote:

---

rasol wrote: That's all he has.

---

posted 09 August 2005 07:47 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Babbling Ape:
Originally posted by Djehuti: And again, E3a carried by West Africans is a sister clade of E3b, just as R1a carried by Eastern Europeans is a sister clade of R1b carried by Western Europeans...

Supercar writes: Not being able to see the significance of the above, with regards to the closeness b/n E3b and E3a, is simply symptomatic of illiteracy.

Wonder where Professor H's dog Krissy is? She'd rip EuroMutt's head off and pee down his throat. Speaking of which.....

---

posted 09 August 2005 07:53 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Osirion, You are absolutely right! But if you are serious about learning, then you have to do more than argue genetics with a moron who thinks women have Y chromosome.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
I would like to hear
Erroneous' point but so far I have heard nothing but dribble.

---

posted 09 August 2005 07:58 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, please explain how E3b is closer related to R1 than to E3a.

---

I've explained the situation clearly enough that even a child could understand. If you still don't get it, that's your problem, not mine.

The bottom line is that E3b makes Africans more similar to Eurasians -- both genetically and phenotypically. It does NOT make Eurasians more similar to Africans.

This is the central fact that no Afronut can refute. All of the nonsense and irrelevancies they've posted since my arrival in January have been a desperate attempt to escape this single reality.

posted 09 August 2005 08:23 AM            

quote:

---

Osirion writes: Erroneous would have us to believe that E3b is closer related to R1? I would like to hear is point

---

quote:

---

Osirion writes: but so far I have heard nothing but dribble.

---

posted 09 August 2005 11:40 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
The bottom line is that E3b makes Africans more similar to Eurasians -- both genetically and phenotypically. It does NOT make Eurasians more similar to Africans.

---

E3b is sister to E3a, the whole E3 clade originated in Africa during the PN2 transition.

What the hell does it have to do with Eurasians (other than the obvious fact that some Eurasians inherited it through mingling with Africans)??!

quote:

---

E3a --- SRY10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, M145, M213, Yap, SRY4064, M96, P29, P2, DYS391p, M2, [E3A]
E3b --- SRY10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, M145, M213, Yap, SRY4064, M96, P29, P2, DYS391p, M35, [E3b]

---

The dumb dog complains about us not having any answers when we gave it to him already!

posted 09 August 2005 12:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
I've explained the situation clearly enough that even a child could understand. If you still don't get it, that's your problem, not mine.

[b]The bottom line is that E3b makes Africans more similar to Eurasians -- both genetically and phenotypically. It does NOT make Eurasians more similar to Africans.

This is the central fact that no Afronut can refute. All of the nonsense and irrelevancies they've posted since my arrival in January have been a desperate attempt to escape this single reality.

But there's simply no escape.[/B]

---

What evidence I have heard from you is that Ethiopians plot closely to Jews on the male side. Which Ethiopians was not specified. However, knowing the history it is not surprising to find Ethiopians with Jewish male ancestry. But this actually undermines your argument. Jews are not E3b and Ethiopians do not have a high frequency of E3b.

It seems that you are the one living in a fantasy land making up evidence where there is none - filling in the gaps with your speculative fantasies.

Again, how does E3b make one more similar to Eurasians? So far the similarities provided are not from E3b but actually Eurasians themselves.

posted 09 August 2005 12:51 PM            

quote:

---

E3b is sister to E3a, the whole E3 clade originated in Africa during the PN2 transition.

What the hell does it have to do with Eurasians (other than the obvious fact that some Eurasians inherited it through mingling with Africans)??!

---

It's equivalent to trying to deny that English is a European language, by claiming that the English language makes Great Britain more African and less European, and then citing the Africans who speak English as 'proof'.

Africans who speak English inherit a European language.

Europeans who have Benin Hbs or E3b inherit African genes.

E3b is a haplotype that denotes a lineage.

Benin Hbs is a haplotype that causes a morphology.

These findings indicate B-HBS as only one of multiple African genes in Europe.


Genetically: Europeans appear as a 2/3 Asian 1/3 African mix - C Sforza.

posted 09 August 2005 01:48 PM            

quote:

---

rasol:
It's equivalent to trying to deny that English is a European language, by claiming that the English language makes Great Britain more African and less European, and then citing the 100's of millions of Africans who speak English as 'proof'.

---

Indeed. Unless ginney tramp can actually challenge the following, the rest of its daily scribbles are null:

quote:

---

E3a --- SRY10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, M145, M213, Yap, SRY4064, M96, P29, P2, DYS391p, M2, [E3A]

E3b --- SRY10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, M145, M213, Yap, SRY4064, M96, P29, P2, DYS391p, M35, [E3b]

Contrast with European R1b:

R1B --- SRV10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, P14, M89, M9, M45, M74, P27, 92R7, M207, UTY-1, M173. P25

---

So now ginney pussy, say that the above isn't so, just like the difference between male and female sex chromosomes isn't so!

posted 09 August 2005 02:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hathor:
So what can anyone tell be about the orgins of L1c?

---

Central Africa w/tmrca of ~60kya [Selas,Sanchez, et. al]

Also....
http://www.ddl.ish-lyon.cnrs.fr/Annuaires/PDF/Van%20Der%20Veen/Luca_2003.pdf

The origin of L1c lineage remains controversial since is found at high frequencies in African-Americans, but in Africa it has been observed in some central and west Africans. It has been suggested that it could have originated in Central Africa, since west African sequences tend to be derived from central Africans.

posted 09 August 2005 02:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hathor:
Controversial? Why is that?

Because it can't be determined if it's central Africian or west Africian?

---

Because it's found, in very high frequencies in places like Brazil and the United States. Lineages not assigned specifically to West Africa found in Africans in the America's suggest to some that the Atlantic slave trade was more pernicious and far reaching than is commonly reported.

posted 09 August 2005 04:23 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hathor:
I'm thinking about the implications of this....

So what are the west Africian markers?
LiC is found more in Central Africa?

---

The Making of the African mtdna Landscape,
referenced from...Tracing History thru Genetic Mutations, NY Times.