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Ancient Egypt and Egyptology Bewildered from both the African Americans and the Egyptians here.
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Author | Topic: Bewildered from both the African Americans and the Egyptians here. |
AMR1 Member Posts: 193 |
posted 14 June 2005 10:13 PM
Many Egyptians here think they have no black race in their genes. I think they are seriously kidding themselves. The African Americans are so upset that their heros' decendants have become very light after intermarrying with lighter skin races and reject them as the inheritors of the AE legacy, who else should inherit the AE legacy but their grandchildren of the founders of AE, I SAY TO THE BLACK AMERICANS. Well may be because I have lived in Sudan, I have a different attitude from most Egyotians, not realizing that I have a black race in my gene and my ancestors live within Africa for the last 7000 years seems just funny if I believe I don't have this black genes. Living also in America, just make me wonder where the afro americans will take their NONSENSE THEORIES TO, until when they will live in ficticious theories. Remembering North Sudan, that is a funny place where you will be mistreated if you are Sudanese who is too black, or too white, there the brown race is the master race.
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Djehuti Member Posts: 957 |
posted 14 June 2005 10:42 PM
quote: You are partially right. But some modern day Egyptians are of pure foreign blood and have no relation to the ancient Egyptians at all.
quote: Not all the blacks here are even African Americans, I don't think, plus what makes you think they don't accept the fact that many Egyptians have mixed with foreigners? They are only saying ancient Egyptians were pure African! By the way, of course you're bewildered, we don't call you 1ARM and mixed-up for nothing LOL [This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 14 June 2005).] IP: Logged |
AMR1 Member Posts: 193 |
posted 14 June 2005 10:58 PM
I know Egypt and its people of today very well more than any none egyptian here. I can say with certainty that no one in Egypt is of a pure race. Some want to claim the ruling elite of today as foreigners, for your information, most of those ruling elite of today are the children of the 1952 revolution, children of middle class and farmers of Egypt, not children of Turks.
Any attempt to try to say hey this Egyptian is too white therefore has nothing to do with Africa while his family has lived for 3-6 generations in Egypt, is full of holes. Why because I know hundreds of people in Egypt personally who look as white as George Bush and have grandfathers who look like Denzel Washington. IP: Logged |
rasol Member Posts: 3601 |
posted 14 June 2005 11:32 PM
Well, you've now started threads in which you admit to being threatened, and now "bewildered." I'm not sure how you want us to help you, but I will give you an honest opinion: I think you've locked yourself into and identity construct that you find unsatisfactory. So you want to change the way 'other people' [Egyptians/African Americans] think, so you can feel better about yourself. This may not work though, as the process has to start from within, and once it does, what other people think becomes irrelevant. m2c. IP: Logged |
Atheist Member Posts: 250 |
posted 14 June 2005 11:56 PM
"By the way, of course you're bewildered, we don't call you 1ARM and mixed-up for nothing LOL regards!" LOL But he made some point here you can be white as George W Bush and still have African admixture genetically. Okay I was being little harsh when I said those modern whiter looking Egyptian mulattos had absolute nothing to do with Ancient Egypt. Yes they can be proud of their African blood if they want to. But the problem is they deny their African blood and still try to be part of the Ancient Egypt you can’t have both way. It defies science. 1ARM, You either accept your African heritage, and be part of Ancient Egypt or you deny it and not be part of Ancient Egypt; it's very simple. Just don't say you were direct ancestors of Ancient Egypt you are only part because you are mixed. (that's ausar, a Fellahin, purest descendants of AE) Again I think we showed you enough proof that the real Ancient Egyptians were black Africans. OT: Pistons won YES! lol [This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged |
AMR1 Member Posts: 193 |
posted 15 June 2005 01:26 AM
In regard to AE, were they pure Africans, but light skin or were they mixed that is why they have light skin, not strictly black.
These great human movement and intermixing is what triggered the human civilization.
Also the pictures of dark brown are usually from upper Egypt. King Mena defeated the lower Egyptian who were for me were almost white and I can not see their skin tone as simply pure african with no mixing, but just very light skin and that is all. I am not confused of history, I am confused of teh attitude of black americans specifically and Egyptians who want to be white by any way or form while their ancestry is partly black for sure. why the sensitivity of being partly black, what is the big deal? Regards, IP: Logged |
AMR1 Member Posts: 193 |
posted 15 June 2005 01:34 AM
By the way, imagine Egypt is like America 5000 years ago under King Mena. Imagine many peoples coming into Egypt as guests and immigrants seeking food and shelter
This last 500 years changed America dramatically. Imagine 1800 years what it will do to Egypt. Egyptians were changing racially without wars and killings but while they had the upper hand.
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Waryaa Member Posts: 47 |
posted 15 June 2005 02:08 AM
I cannot in my wildest imagination understand what a guy called 50 Cent* or The Game* has to do with Pharaohic Egypt? *These people named above stand for certain section of American demographics. IP: Logged |
Atheist Member Posts: 250 |
posted 15 June 2005 02:24 AM
ARM1 and mixed, You don't get it do you? You don't have to be jet black in color to be indigenous African. Plus they are not light-skinned but various color of brown just like the Africans, African-Americans, and black people of today. I know they didn't have much mixing except for rare occasion; the royals and pharos of ancient egyptians were mainly pure Africans. Reason is they married within their family members to keep the bloodline pure and clean. King Tut his skull, and his overall facial structure shown in the golden mask is a look of an African not a mixed one. Waryaa, Me too, I can't in my wildest dream how modern day Mulattos Arabs(adding those mixed wannabe somali) that do nothing but *drive cabs and *flip hamburgers in burger king had anything to do with pharos and kings of ancient egypt. *basically only jobs available for latinos, arabs, and mulattos in USA. [This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged |
Atheist Member Posts: 250 |
posted 15 June 2005 02:58 AM
Anyway who listen to crap like 50, eminem or The Game these days lmao. I'm a hip hop fan myself and only white suburban kids listen to that kind of garbage. How about Nas, Ras Kass, Talib Kweli, Krs-1, and ATCQ? Many of them are highly educated and know what they are talking about unlike Eminem who cries about his mommy and make fun of boy bands- typical stuff most white people relate to. Listening to him is like nail scratching a chalkboard.
Let freedom ring with a buckshot, but not just yet IP: Logged |
ausar Moderator Posts: 4157 |
posted 15 June 2005 03:10 AM
quote:
Each of these people are humanbeings and deserve some respect. Constanly making statements as the following shows your own insecurity.
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Atheist Member Posts: 250 |
posted 15 June 2005 03:24 AM
Okay relax I think "what a guy called 50 Cent* or The Game* has to do with Pharaohic Egypt" statements like that and calling people "nigger" and "apes" are just as insulting and racist as what I said. But I guess there are one too many of those types to really warn every one of them. To be honest many posts in here are racially motivated if you ask me- “Egyptians Were a Master Race of People”, “More Afronut Hypocrisy” these types of racially motivated threads are asking for insults but yeah I understand your concern I'll tone it down with the mulatto thing Actually most of the time I’m being very sarcastic also mixed with some humor. Only the real insecure ones would feel insulted. Cheer. [This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged |
AMR1 Member Posts: 193 |
posted 15 June 2005 08:45 AM
I am not bewildered. I am disappointed, but not surprised. To Afro-Americans You can not have your paternal side living in EGYPT, forget about thousands of years or maternal sides across the centuries and be pure immigrant in Egypt.
Regards, [This message has been edited by AMR1 (edited 15 June 2005).] [This message has been edited by AMR1 (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged |
AMR1 Member Posts: 193 |
posted 15 June 2005 08:56 AM
I am from an Egyptian family that would give a good Muslim man, our daughters, even if he was a convert to Islam. And I never thought of myself as an exception in Egypt. So to claim any of the 94% Muslims in Egypt as pure. It sounds really off for me. [This message has been edited by AMR1 (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged |
Djehuti Member Posts: 957 |
posted 15 June 2005 12:07 PM
quote: Apparently not as well as the Fellah, Ausar!
quote: How? Have you been to every single part of Egypt? Have you seen every group of people there, even in Sa'idi Fellahin? Better yet, have you done DNA tests on every group in the country? quote: They don't look it. quote: Most don't and would never marry anyone dark.
quote: For the thousandth time, Peoples of the same race may vary in skin color!! For example many Asians in the south closer to the tropics are dark while many asians up north are light this does not necessasrily mean admixture! Pure black Africans vary the most in terms of skin color, there are people of the same reddish-brown hue in other parts of Africa like in Ethiopia and even in Kenya, or the northern part of West Africa. I showed you a picture of a San bushman of Southern Africa with yellowish brown skin and slanted eyes, does this mean she is mixed with Asian?! You never responded to my picture!! quote: Exactly where the heck did you get this info from?!! Yes there was a great wheather change 10000 years ago, in which North Africa became dry and began turning into the Sahara Desert we know now, but the only migrations into the Nile Valley were by Africans in the surrounding adjacent areas, not peoples from the Near-East!! The old "Dynastic Race Theory" that you keep trying to revive is an old corpse that is almost dust! This has become common fact now in Egyptian history and every Egyptologist today smirks at that notion, especially Hawass!! quote: Why does everyone have to be "intermixed" to trigger human civilization?!! What about the Chinese or the Native American Totecs? What about the other peoples in Africa that built civilizations in Sub-Sahara?!! You are mixed up is what you are, ane you need to get over this racially mixed supremacy thing you have!! Not everyone has to be "mixed" to accomplished things! Seriously, you are worse than Bryant Gumbo or Mariah Carey or something! If you are mixed that is great and fine, but no need to mix all the great peoples of the world in your mind!! quote: How can you not understand why many modern Egyptians deny their black ancestry??!! Haven't you heard of a little something called RACISM??! Besides, many African Americans acknowledge the diversity of modern Egypt and know many of mixed but this doesn't change the fact the ancient Egyptians were not. quote: It is simple science, really. The farther away from the equator a population is, the lighter its color tends to be. As I said before, many asians farther north are much lighter and almost white looking compared to asians farther south who are very dark. This is especially true in Africa. Again, I showed you a picture of aboriginal Southern Africans who has yellowish color skin!! They are not mixed with non-Africans at all, and in fact are the 'purest' compared to many black Africans of East and even West Africa that have mixed with non-Africans. So there is no reason why peoples of northern Egypt around the Delta should not have a light color as well. quote: Again, it is because of racism!! Not only are you confused, but you must be in a deeply, utterly, and hoplessly state of confusion to not know this!!! As I said before, you must be going through some racial identity crisis or something, because you seem to be awfully confused over many basic facts of not just history, but modern social issues!! quote: Incorrect. No major migration into Egypt occured during Dynastic times except the Hyksos, but they were still a minority. quote: The only major migrations that altered Egypt's population dramatically was the Arab invasions of the 7th century C.E. The Arabs have been living in North Africa, but especially Egypt for well over a thousand years, so yes the population change is understandable, but this wasn't the case with dynastic Egypt. quote: We have also explained many times already that Hawass's portrayal of Tut is incorrect, and that it looks nothing like the ancient portraits made by people who've seen him!! The reconstruction has many discrepancies as I pointed out in a couple of threads! quote: No you are just straight up bewildered, confused, and disoriented!! You are probably slow-witted as well! quote: I don't know what the heck this means but the Sa'idi Fellahin are still the 'purest' Egyptians of the whole country! quote: I don't know about the rapes, but the Arab invasions were certainly not as peaceful as you think! And I don't think the invaders whated live with Egyptians so much as they wanted the Egyptians to live under them!! Ausar has given alot of info on how bad the Arabs treated indigenous Egyptians. Indigenous Egyptians were put in a caste as lowly laborers and agricultural workers and were over-taxed. Some were even sold as slaves. I suggest you ask Ausar about this, since he knows a lot about the later periods of Egyptian history. For an Egyptian, you on the other hand seem to know nothing about any period of Egyptian history! quote: No, everything is just off to you, because you are a confused fool! REGARDS!!! [This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged |
osirion Member Posts: 306 |
posted 15 June 2005 12:23 PM
Actually Egyptians will marry a Black American even if they are light. Not sure but I think their caste system is more economic than racial. Somewhat like it is in the states. Muslims in general are not overtly racist like many Jews and Christians are. They actually became more racist due to European influence. The founding people of Islam contained many Ethiopian people. The prophet Mohammed praised Ethiopian people as being one of the most noble of people. Racism amongst Arabs is probably from European influence and also due to economic caste systems. IP: Logged |
Djehuti Member Posts: 957 |
posted 15 June 2005 12:24 PM
The most racist Egyptians are the Europeanized ones living in Alexandria. They still believe in the old Tarzan stereotypes. [This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged |
ausar Moderator Posts: 4157 |
posted 15 June 2005 01:26 PM
Djehuti, I think you are forgetting that the Delta always experiances a steady series of migration. Even around the pre-dyanstic period there were people from Western Asia and Mesopotamia documented around this area. The city of Buto during the pre-dyanstic period had many settlers living there from Mesopotamia. How much effect they had on the Delta Egyptian I really don't know. Add to that the pictures of people living in the Delta when Narmer united Upper and Lower Egypt. Basically, Asiatics began to settle around the Delta continously from the Old Kingdom Period untill the Middle Kingdom period. Refer to my post about Asiatics in the Delta. I give supporting references on this claim.
Although during the Ptolemaic era Greeks mostly settled in the area of Lower Egypt, there was a Greek pressence in southern Egypt as far as the Aswan border. Mercenary cleurchs[sp] were settled in parts of Middle Egypt. Around Faiyum Ptolemies built cities there and this was a cosmopolitan areas of Greeks,Syrians,and Egyptians. Other cities also existed in Middle Egypt. Around modern day Sohag was Ptolemais. To sum things up there was alot of migration into Egypt during the Ptolemaic period. Not just Greeks but Jews,Syrians,Carians,Phonecians,and other groups that freely intermarried with Egyptians. Did you even know that Egyptian priest took in Greek babies that were abandoned? They raised them up in the temple,and Egyptian priests refused to engaged in infanticide as the Greeks or Romans did. So actually the Greco-Roman period probably had a greater effect on altering the Egyptian population than the Arabic invasion. IP: Logged |
Djehuti Member Posts: 957 |
posted 15 June 2005 01:58 PM
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kenndo Member Posts: 711 |
posted 15 June 2005 02:07 PM
quote:
some black arabs in the sudan have some or little mixture, to no mixture as well. [This message has been edited by kenndo (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged |
Djehuti Member Posts: 957 |
posted 15 June 2005 02:21 PM
quote: ROTFLMAO Yes, and I'm sure you are a part of this brown master race! LOL You mixed-up idiot, there is no such thing as a "brown race" at least if you're talking about Africa! So-called "brown" colored Africans are the same race as the 'black' ones!!! [This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged |
osirion Member Posts: 306 |
posted 15 June 2005 02:31 PM
quote:
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ausar Moderator Posts: 4157 |
posted 15 June 2005 02:40 PM
The first time that foreigners got control over Egypt was during the Hykos invasion. You have another period after Dyansty 6 called the First Intermediate period where it was possible that foreigners might have ruled,but not for a very long period.
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kenndo Member Posts: 711 |
posted 15 June 2005 02:52 PM
quote: the only brown race i could think of in africa is alot of the arabs and berbers and some folks in certain groups.you know the ones that do not look white or black. amr1 is confused,a brown race person would be most of those folks from india,modern southwest asia,certain latino groups,etc etc. amr1 needs to get the facts,wait we gave to him but it just goes from one ear to the next. IP: Logged |
kenndo Member Posts: 711 |
posted 15 June 2005 02:55 PM
of course alot of arabs and berbers are white as well with some blacks in those groups. IP: Logged |
AMR1 Member Posts: 193 |
posted 15 June 2005 02:56 PM
90% of Sudanese are blacks, but Nubian North Sudanese who are the ruling elite, they are about 20 million 50% of the population they are arbized , may be mix with few Arab tribes. I don't belong to them, I belong to 2 million Sudanese who are Egyptians originally, we are only 5% of Sudan, some of us who are very light brown are called white in Sudan. We are certainly not white at all but like Collin Powell. There is also 5% bedouin arabs. The Beja, nubians , not arabized and they are called browns in Sudan, 5% of the population. Than there is about 8 million NON nubians,NON ARABIZED in the central, and parts of the west, about 15% of Sudan. Those are considered blacker than the first elite group. Than the south, they are the blackest, and not arabized and not nubians. IP: Logged |
osirion Member Posts: 306 |
posted 15 June 2005 03:00 PM
quote:
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kenndo Member Posts: 711 |
posted 15 June 2005 03:38 PM
quote: the arabs are about 39% of sudan or less now because of more black africans are coming back because of the peace in the south. nubians are black, remember?they are darker on average than most black americans.look it up,nubians belong to the black race even the mixed ones.there is no such thing as a brown race nubian.you are one of the only fools to say nubians are not black.everybody in the world knows they are black even the racist.only a few nuts like you say otherwise and you are not even in the mainstream of the racist or self haters on that issue only a few nubians are half of something in the sudan others have some form of mixture ,but most are mostly unmixed africans that live near the blue nile and other areas including nubia and outside in other african states and many of them are arabized but are still nubian unlike the black arabs in the sudan . one scholar told me most of them do not have any arab background.you could play around egypt's history but you leave nubia alone do you hear ME?THEIR race is not up for debate like egypt.the nubians are clearly black so don't go there,i am warning you. even egypt is should be a not a debate,but nubia is not at all a debate as far as i am concern and for the rest of the folks in this forum.even the one who disagree about egypt would clearly say the nubians past and present are black africans.they are nilo-saharan folks or sudanic and most married other nubians,even more so in the past so there is no way they are a mixed race group.roman and other scholars clearly state that most were dark skin,flat noses and kinky hair and this was around late ancient times,let's not forget new nubians called the noba came from the southwest,so there is no way they were mixed even in medieval times except for most in lower nubia and a few in late medieval times in upper nubia.southern nubia remain unmixed in medieval times and only a few intermarried in early modern times in southern nubia study history for once please because you are sounding more and more foolish by the day. the beja are not brown folks.they are more like the coloureds of south africa.some beja are clearly black and some are clearly mixed. [This message has been edited by kenndo (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged |
bandon19 Member Posts: 56 |
posted 15 June 2005 04:03 PM
i think hes talking about the so called arabs in sudan Those are the nubians. IP: Logged |
kenndo Member Posts: 711 |
posted 15 June 2005 04:35 PM
deleted [This message has been edited by kenndo (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged |
kenndo Member Posts: 711 |
posted 15 June 2005 04:43 PM
quote:
the arabs in the sudan do not called themselves nubians so amr1 should not either. the mixed raced mexicans as well do not have the right to say they are mayan etc because they are called latinos and just like most arabs inthe sudan,the latinos do not get along well with the mayan folks in there own state.what i am trying to say is both arabs and latino mexicans can't have it both ways. IP: Logged |
Waryaa Member Posts: 47 |
posted 15 June 2005 05:00 PM
quote: What do you call a fella whose insecurity is obvious to naked eyes, yet tries desperately to be a discerning one. A suddenly turned wanna-be expert of Somali people, part-time Korean with fond for "black" culture. His oft-repeated "mullato" word tells as much about his insecurity than about others.If his thinking everybody whose thinking is contrary to what he believes is either Arab or "mullato," God help him. Oh, wait, he was a hapless atheist. IP: Logged |
Djehuti Member Posts: 957 |
posted 15 June 2005 06:12 PM
As for the Nubians, there are three main groups each speaking their own dialect:
All these groups speak their form Nubian language and all preserve Nubian customs in one way or another. I assume the Arabization is greater in the urban areas. By the way, I said before that Atheist is half white so I find his use of mulatto all the time to be strange, especially with reference to burritos! ... [This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged |
Atheist Member Posts: 250 |
posted 15 June 2005 06:13 PM
quote: Yeah right how cute you would write all this just for me. Obviously I have got under your skin. Let me guess I'm half white and half Asia. The only part I refuse is the white part of my heritage in you "mulattos" (no I don't call everyone mulattos; now tell me who is insecure ) dream every day and literally masturbate to be part of. That makes me opposite of insecure. Oh I'm soooooo sorry for calling you mulattos even though it’s true; I must have deeply hurt you feeling. Tsk Tsk Tsk.. Look at you. At least I don't look into the mirror ever day and burst out in tears; despite all the prayers, a mixed individual not a bleach white one. Call me mulatto, call me mixed, call me an Asian or African. It doesn’t bother me one bit. I’m proud unlike you who have trouble sleeping when you are referred as something black. Oh by the way I don’t need to be a Somali to know more about them than you, at least I know they are black and from Africa (ouch) IP: Logged |
Djehuti Member Posts: 957 |
posted 15 June 2005 06:16 PM
Let's not resort to childish spats and stick to the topic, shall we?... IP: Logged |
Atheist Member Posts: 250 |
posted 15 June 2005 07:38 PM
You are on DJ, my good friend! Anyway no offense about the burrito comments. When I say those jokes I don’t have any mean intention to it. (I'll try to tone it down hehehe) I'm still reading all the posts especially the useful ones so don't worry. [This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged |
ausar Moderator Posts: 4157 |
posted 15 June 2005 07:41 PM
Djehuti, during the Ottoman period many Ottoman troops that came from Hungary,the Balkans,and other regions settled in parts of Aswan to Lower Nubia. Before this even there was garrison units of Ptolemic and Roman troops that controlled the border with Lower Nubia and Egypt.
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Djehuti Member Posts: 957 |
posted 15 June 2005 07:55 PM
quote: This explains why the Kanuzi (northern Nubians) appear to be the most mixed. Some I've seen are really light-skinned. IP: Logged |
kenndo Member Posts: 711 |
posted 16 June 2005 01:19 PM
these are the nubian groups mostly in the sudan.8 groups midob the nubians who are arabized in the sudan but are still nubians and different from the more extreme arabized nubians who do not consider themselves nubian nubians-jaaliyin IP: Logged |
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