Sicilians are mixed, look inside Erroneous E

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Author	Topic: Sicilians are mixed, look inside Erroneous E
relaxx Member Posts: 230 Registered: May 2005	posted 13 June 2005 06:10 PM quote: Originally posted by Topdog: *I got your point man. I should have said more similar to Bantu speaking people rather than use Negroid. But my point is that E3b and E3b are came from sub-Saharan African populations.** I was waiting for you to come back on the Khwe that were omitted, there is another bantu speaking population in Tanzania that has a high frequency of E3b*: the Wairak. Relaxx IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 13 June 2005 07:01 PM Good points all, the thing to keep in mind is that European ancestors, migrated out of Africa before the development of E haplogroup M96. They settled in ICE Age refuges in Europe 40kya~, there earliest defining lineages are M170 and M173. R1b and I. Africans are descendant of AB and E [40kya~] lineages with the P2 clade denoting the common ancestor of all E3A and E3b Africans with E3b splitting about 25kya~. At this point in time all African are from a common stock, but have not had a common ancestor with Europeans for 20 thousand plus years, essentially, this woman.... "African Eve". E3b is sub-saharan [Underhill, Semino, Cruciani, et. al] Europeans inherit this lineage in the Neolithic, after they'd 'turned white' in their ice age glacial refuges. Long before the genetics proved this, Larry Angel and others actually traced the introduction of these African skeletypes into Europe. Southern Europeans have these African admixtures to this day: Greeks have 23% Pn2 clade Y lineages, and these lineages fade to next to nothing as you go north and into the blonde/blue eyed pale nordic populations. For some ethnocentrists in Europe this is an 'emotional-political' issue, and that's why they waste so much time denying the obvious. IP: Logged
YuhiVII Member Posts: 80 Registered: Oct 2004	posted 13 June 2005 08:56 PM quote: Originally posted by rasol: Europeans inherit this lineage in the Neolithic, after they'd 'turned white' in their ice age glacial refuges. Rasol, how did you determine that they had "turned white" before the Neolithic? I do agree with what you say about the "emotional-political" issue. I think it's still a hard psychological blow for these Eurocentrists to accept that E3b is indeed of so called "sub-Sahara" African origin and NOT the Middle East. However they try to sugar-coat this issue as can be seen even on the National Geographic's current Genographic Project website. On the E3b genetic marker we get this: quote: M35 (HAPLOGROUP E3B) First Appeared 20,000 years ago Type Y-Chromosome Middle Eastern M96-bearing populations, who had left Africa 30,000 to 40,000 years ago, acquired another genetic change some 20,000 years ago.The marker M35 now defines haplogroup E3b and traces the Neolithic spread of these people out of the Middle East. In otherwords, the M35 genetic marker is of Middle Eastern origin! [This message has been edited by YuhiVII (edited 13 June 2005).] IP: Logged
Super car Member Posts: 1335 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 13 June 2005 09:22 PM quote: Originally posted by YuhiVII: I do agree with what you say about the "emotional-political" issue. I think it's still a hard psychological blow for these Eurocentrists to accept that E3b is indeed of so called "sub-Sahara" African origin and NOT the Middle East. However they try to sugar-coat this issue as can be seen even on the National Geographic's current Genographic Project website. On the E3b genetic marker we get this: M35 (HAPLOGROUP E3B) First Appeared 20,000 years ago Type Y-Chromosome *Middle Eastern* M96-bearing populations, who had left Africa 30,000 to 40,000 years ago, acquired another genetic change some 20,000 years ago.The marker M35 now defines haplogroup E3b and traces the Neolithic spread of these people out of the Middle East. In otherwords, the M35 genetic marker is of Middle Eastern origin! Well, this is a half truth, in that the E3b eventually spread into Europe, through the Levantine corridor; doesn't negate its recent sub-Saharan African origins. Now, "Middle East" itself, is an intentional vague Eurocentric construct, which doesn't constitute a continent. That National Geograhic didn't specifically state the whereabouts of its origins, perhaps indicates, that they now better. Instead they simply state that the so-called Middle Eastern populations "acquired" the change. From where or how they [Middle Eastern populations] "acquired" this "genetic change", is a question left to the imagination of the reader. And simply using genetic change, can throw off some unsuspecting readers. Perhaps, this was intentional. Another form of deception is to leave out other crucial details, rather than outrightedly telling a lie. In this manner, the untold details are left to the audience's imagination, which for various people, can translate into being something along the lines as, "this is the whole story, and nothing more". [This message has been edited by Super car (edited 13 June 2005).] IP: Logged
Djehuti Member Posts: 1044 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 13 June 2005 09:31 PM Yes, Stupid-Euro and other Eurocentics have been dealt a severe psychological blow, indeed!!! Always calling other groups 'monkeys', looks like science made monkeys out of them!!LOL Which is why they continue foolishness like deny the full story on the origins of E3b and claiming "North African Caucasoids"!! [This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 13 June 2005).] IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 13 June 2005 09:53 PM quote: That National Geograhic didn't specifically state the whereabouts of its origins, perhaps indicates, that they now better National Geographic's web comments are not always written by biologist and there are errors of omission and commision, However they do state correctly: M96 is the second lineage defined by the precense of YAP, it likely arose in NorthEast Africa What is incorrect is this... About 30,40k M96 carrying people moved out of Africa and into the middle East. Nooo...not a single non African Haplotype J,R1,I etc. has the M96 marker. These haplotypes are united by M89, which in turn, is NOT present in E, E1, E2, E3a or E3b. So not only is this wrong, but the graphic accompanying the text regarding Haplogroup E shows that it is wrong... https://www5.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html What migrated out of Africa is the precursor of M96, which is M168. There are no E haplotype outside of Africa prior to E3b1 spreading into the Levant 14ky~ and Europe 8ky~. Spencer Wells heads the National Geographic genome project and clarifies: National Geographic Magazine October 2004, "Most men living in the area surrounding Carthage before the Phoenicians arrived should probably have carried variations of the M96, which is the aboriginal type in North and West Africa." "No more than 20 percent of the men we sampled had Y Chromosomes that originated in the Middle East. [Haplogroup J, M168 to M89] Most carried the aboriginal North African M96 pattern." Also see.... http://www.roperld.com/YBiallelicHaplogroups.htm ...which shows which markers are and are not present in the different haplotypes, even as it repeats the Middle East, misnomer. [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 13 June 2005).] IP: Logged
YuhiVII Member Posts: 80 Registered: Oct 2004	posted 13 June 2005 10:26 PM Supercar and Rasol, this is exactly my point! It is just left ambiguous. Why on earth would they have a text which doesn't correlate with the graphics? The "atlas" clearly shows M2 and M35 appearing as offshoots from M96 in Africa, however, the text doesn't mention this. Also the website doesn't mention the time in which M2 appears. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 13 June 2005 10:31 PM quote: Rasol, how did you determine that they had "turned white" before the Neolithic? This is debatable. Some anthropologists correlate the development of pale skin to the loss of African [tropical] limb ratios in Europeans 17kya; others beleive that extreme paleness of the Nordes is post Neolithic, and is the result of extreme Vitamin D deficiency. Either way, Native Africans have always had dark skin, ranging from the red/yellow brown of some San, and diminuative Central African groups, to the near black of some southern Sudanese groups: See.... based on variation in MC1R nucleotide sequences, the human ancestors in Africa began to lose their hair and they came under increasing evolutionary pressures that killed off the progeny of individuals that retained the inherited whiteness of their skin. By 1.2 million years ago, all people having descendants today had exactly the receptor protein of today's Africans; their skin was black, and the intense sun killed off the progeny with any whiter skin that resulted from mutational variation in the receptor protein (Rogers 2004:107). However, the progeny of those humans who migrated North away from the intense African sun were not under the evolutionary constraint that keeps human skin black generation after generation in Africa. Tracking back the statistical patterns in variations in DNA among all known people sampled who are alive on the earth today, Rogers concluded the following: 1) from 1.2 million years ago for a million years, the ancestors of all people alive today were as black as today's Africans, 2) for that period of a million years, human ancestors lived naked without clothing, and 3) the descendants of any people who migrate North from Africa will mutate to become white over time because the evolutionary constraint that keeps Africans' skin black generation after generation decreases generally the further North a people migrates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_color Also, for 1Arm, the self proclaimed mulatoo advocate: You cannot necessarily equate red-brown skin color to mixtures of white-european people and dark black sudanic types. Variations in brown skin tone predates the existence of Europeans, or of ANY genetic lineages that lead particularly to Europeans. It is only the potential for variation in ancient AFricans which allow(ed) for the later development of extreme pale types. [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 13 June 2005).] IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 13 June 2005 10:34 PM quote: Originally posted by YuhiVII: Supercar and Rasol, this is exactly my point! It is just left ambiguous. Why on earth would they have a text which doesn't correlate with the graphics? The "atlas" clearly shows M2 and M35 appearing as offshoots from M96 in Africa, however, the text doesn't mention this. Also the website doesn't mention the time in which M2 appears. lol. Europeans are paying good money for their "genomes". They don't pay people to tell them...OH, by the way....your 'daddy' was a Black African. There have been more than a few cases of white blonde haired blue eyed peoples in America, especially, whose Y chromosome turned out to be E3A - so called Bantu haplotype. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 13 June 2005 11:04 PM Y-STR EXPANSION TIME ESTIMATES AND ORIGINS it has been proposed that E3b originated in Sub-Saharan Africa. it is suggested that recent gene flow brought E3b from North West Africa into Iberia with the Islamic conquest � Bosch 2001 haplogroups I and R1b are likely to have been in Europe since the Palaeolithic age we hypothesize that M78 (E3b1) is the more likely haplogroup reflecting Neolithic demic diffusion [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 13 June 2005).] IP: Logged
Evil Euro Member Posts: 484 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 14 June 2005 07:53 AM quote: Originally posted by rasol: So if you want to pretend that Benin HBS is irrelevant, go do it in a sickle cell ward, you'll get the same response that you get here. Idiot. Dumb negro filth, HbS is NOT used to trace ancestry by ANY geneticists anymore. What don't you understand about this, low-IQ spook? "African admixture in Sicily has been long suspected because of the presence of the sickle gene. Nevertheless, the degree of African admixture cannot be derived from the study of HbS frequency, since this gene was most likely expanded by the selective pressure of malaria, for a long time endemic to the region. We have examined 142 individuals from the Sicilian town of Butera (12% sickle trait) to search for other markers of the globin gene cluster less likely to be selected for by malaria. The TaqI polymorphism in the intervening sequences between the two gamma genes is informative. We have found only two instances of this African marker (TaqI(-)) among 267 normal chromosomes, demonstrating that the admixture occurred at a much lower level than previously thought." (Ragusa et al. 1992) You only need ONE West African ancestor 15,000 years ago to introduce HbS into a population. The malarial environment does the rest. Fucking moron. quote: Actually no, idiot. Sickle cell is a pathology found in many parts of the world that results from inherited genes. One of these genes is Benin HBS. Which is the one we're talking about, you nitpicking nigger. West African HbS does not* "lend further support" to Angel et al's discussion of Basic White admixture from the opposite side of Africa. Desperate bitch. quote: Good luck refuting the above renowned scholars. Good luck finding answers . . . If Angel's "negroid nose and mouth traits" represent black racial admixture, then where are the other Negroid traits? Where's the Negroid hair type, skull shape, skeletal form, pigmentation etc.? Funny how these Nomadic Neolithic Niggas transmitted only two of their traits to the Levantines and Greeks. Funny also that in his more detailed analyses, Angel makes no mention of a Negroid racial strain in either Neolithic farmers or modern Greeks. Neither does Coon for that matter. Nor Brace. Any answers, Negroes? If Arnaiz-Villena's HLA-DRB1 study on Greek-Ethiopian affinities is anything more than junk science, then why has it been rejected by not one, not two, not three, but FOUR world-renowned geneticists? And why have its results never been duplicated by a single other genetic study -- even those conducted using the same HLA genes that Arnaiz-Villena analyzed? This is quite remarkable indeed, but I'm sure the Negroes have a very good explanation. We're all waiting to hear it. quote: * He will make the irrelevant claim that the Khwe are not 'true' Negros. And in so doing attempt to deflect your question into other questions which he has also failed to answer: Unrefuted fact: E3b is found at significant frequencies only in fully Caucasoid North Africans like Kabyles, and partly Caucasoid East Africans like Ethiopians and Somalis. It is not found substantially in any unmixed Sub-Saharan Africans. This fact has yet to be refuted (because it can't be). quote: The mystery of the non-existent sub-saharan caucazoid, exposed: Unrefuted fact: "...results here are not indicative of anything, except a general non-African* nature for all these* [pre-historic Kenyan] skulls. Display of POPKIN distances (infra) reinforces this and seems to find nearer neighbors among such more generalized populations as Peru, Guam, or Ainu, but also Europeans or even Easter Island." (Howells, 1995) quote: Europeans inherit this lineage in the Neolithic, after they'd 'turned white' in their ice age glacial refuges. And after the E3b-carriers had also 'turned white' (from their original generalized state) in Northeast Africa and the Middle East. quote: Greeks have 23% Pn2 clade Y lineages, and these lineages fade to next to nothing as you go north and into the blonde/blue eyed pale nordic populations. The Cornish are the darkest people in Northern Europe, with the highest frequency of black hair. They're also the most Paleolithic European (R1b and I). IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 14 June 2005 11:29 AM quote: HbS is not used to trace ancestry by any geneticists anymore. No one has said otherwise, nor did anyone state you can so quantify admixture, and has no bearing on..... quote: It is BENIN HBS which per the Hematology Division of Catania, Sicily is a) endemic to Sicily. b) the most frequent blood-pathology in Italy. c) has a history of great antiquity reflecting trans saharan migrations. d) is merely one of multiple African genes present in Southern European populations. Sickle cell trait documents West African inherited genotype and consequent alteration in morphology in Southern Europe. If you ever tire of.... SQUIRMING. ....maybe you will actually manage a relevant reply, for once. But I doubt it. [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 14 June 2005).] IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 1915 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 14 June 2005 11:39 AM Super car, Looks like bad mantal habits are hard to break....there is no such thing as a Eurocentric. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 14 June 2005 11:40 AM rasol writes: quote: ANSWERS: Negroids from Nubia, (per Angel and McCown)...further specified as "Ethiopic OR Bushmanoid", because the features.... present Negroid characteristics attributable to C R O S S B R E E D I N G - (Garrod and Furon.)... and which denote the biological intrusion FROM Black Africa INTO the Ancient Greeks and Western Asians (Ehret, Keita) and would be similiar in any case. - Larry Angel, McCown, Keita, Ehret, Garrod, Furon, et al. Good luck refuting the above renowned scholars. quote: Erroneous writes: good luck finding answers for... ....your lack of answers? Actually your lack of answers to Larry Angel, McCown, Keita, Ehret, Garrod, and Furon is quite easily explained. You don't have any. Keep trying....... ...frustrated Errone-mouse. [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 14 June 2005 11:46 AM quote: Originally posted by Topdog: Retarded guido, why did you selectively leave out this: Southern African Khwe- 30.8% [Cruciani et tal 2004] *The South African Khwe have E3b-M35 at a far higher frequency than any East African group. So once again stupid, if E3b is Caucasoid, please state the name and population of this Caucasoid group.** Hey Errone-mouse, What's taking so long? [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 14 June 2005 11:54 AM quote: Originally posted by rasol: Erroneous can't answer on sub-sahara caucazoids, but JO Vogel David Hall, CL Brace and Elisabeth Dunstan can. ...terms such as "Negroid," "Caucasoid," and "Mongoloid" create more problems than they solve. Biologically, such terms are worse than useless. " Brace claims that Caucasoid peoples once lived in eastern Africa have been shown to be wrong - J.O. Vogel the peopling of East Africa was carried out by three main African groups: the Cushitic-speaking peoples; the Nilotic-speaking peoples; the Bantu-speaking peoples....ancestors of most present-day East Africans� the Black Africans. - Dr. Elisabeth Dunstan and David Hall. Sure gets quiet when Erroneous can't answer. IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 1915 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 14 June 2005 12:07 PM rasol, the scholars are you mentioned are simply being politically correct. Its all part of the diversity crap some of them want to preach. Fact is, they know better and so do you. I'd say you know a negroid when you see one. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 14 June 2005 12:29 PM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: rasol, the scholars are you mentioned are simply being politically correct. Can you actually refute the noted scholars? quote: ANSWERS: Negroids from Nubia, (per Angel and McCown)...further specified as "Ethiopic OR Bushmanoid", because the features.... present Negroid characteristics attributable to C R O S S B R E E D I N G - (Garrod and Furon.)... and which denote the biological intrusion FROM Black Africa INTO the Ancient Greeks and Western Asians (Ehret, Keita) and would be similiar in any case. - Larry Angel, McCown, Keita, Ehret, Garrod, Furon, et al. Do you have any facts, any scholarship of merit to reference us to, that will contradict Angel, Furon, Garrod, et al? Yes or no? Erroneous and Professor Hor. One a liar, the other a fool. Niether one with any answers. lame. [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 14 June 2005).] IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 1915 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 14 June 2005 12:39 PM I don;t have to refute them rasol, they already agree with me and so do you. If race wasn't legit as an issue all you guys would not be on this board 24/7 whining about race. IP: Logged
Djehuti Member Posts: 1044 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 14 June 2005 12:47 PM quote: Horembeb says: rasol, the scholars are you mentioned are simply being politically correct. Its all part of the diversity crap some of them want to preach. Fact is, they know better and so do you. I'd say you know a negroid when you see one. Hore, I don't think you need scholars to know that prehistoric 'caucasoids' never exisited in East Africa!! But then again you believe in 'North African caucasoids' perhaps the "diversity crap" has affected your mind!! Maybe YOU don't know a 'negroid' when YOU see one!! LOL [This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 14 June 2005).] IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 14 June 2005 01:20 PM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: I don;t have to refute them rasol, they already agree with me and so do you. Excellent! quote: ANSWERS: Negroids from Nubia, (per Angel and McCown)...further specified as "Ethiopic OR Bushmanoid", because the features.... present Negroid characteristics attributable to C R O S S B R E E D I N G - (Garrod and Furon.)... and which denote the biological intrusion FROM Black Africa INTO the Ancient Greeks and Western Asians (Ehret, Keita) and would be similiar in any case. - Larry Angel, McCown, Keita, Ehret, Garrod, Furon, et al. I'm glad we agree to the above, in which case, what are you whining about? [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 14 June 2005).] IP: Logged
Atheist Member Posts: 270 Registered: May 2005	posted 14 June 2005 05:15 PM Yeah like you and Evil Euro "Always Whining" about race. I wonder why? Maybe your memory span is short as your own white history. How about try reading some of the posts in here; some of them don�t even consider such thing as race so how are they whining? All you and Evil Euro do is spew nonsense always relating everything with race and always trying to find a way to degrade the Africans. Funny part is that�s where all your first ancestors really came from. Those are undeniable facts even a moron would acknowledge that. Evil Euro, don�t try to be a smart ass you are nothing but an ignorant google whore. You know I can do the same and just carefully select the information that I agree with and just copy and paste here without even really checking the validity of the resource. Dieneke? I checked where his supporters came from and wow bunch of retarded skinheads. It�s just another mindless Eurocentric racist pseudoscience. No wonder Asian students come to your country learn your language in 6 month and still end up with the better test scores. You are nothing but a simple-minded racist insect. Now go ahead and thank your African father and Asian mother for bringing your pathetic little ass to this world. Without us you wouldn't exist. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 14 June 2005 11:34 PM quote: Originally posted by Djehuti: Stupid-Euro must either be so incredibly dumb or a glutton for punishment (or both)!!! For the past 6 months he come here talking the same tired old sh only to be whipped and humiliated everytime! So, why does he keep doing it??!! inquiring minds want to know, Euro!** IP: Logged
Evil Euro Member Posts: 484 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 15 June 2005 07:26 AM quote: Originally posted by rasol: No one has said otherwise, nor did anyone state you can so quantify admixture Then you have no point, so shut the f-uck up. quote: It is BENIN HBS which per the Hematology Division of Catania, Sicily is Do you even read your own sources, monkey? "The overall Hb S gene frequency in Sicily is 2%; it is concentrated on the eastern and southern coasts, reaching frequencies as high as 13% in certain villages (fig.l). The incidence of the b th genes is roughly over 5%. Therefore, the most common conditions observed among our patients is b Sb th, whereas sickle cell anemia (b S b S) is less frequent. [ . . . ] "At present there are in Sicily about 400 patients with sickle cell disease who cannot be distinguished from other Sicilian subjects; we have observed three blond, blue-eyed patients (fig.3)." http://www.sicklecellsociety.org/information/resrep/res14.htm quote: lack of answers . . . don't have any Awaiting answers . . . If Angel's "negroid nose and mouth traits" represent black racial admixture, then where are the other Negroid traits? Where's the Negroid hair type, skull shape, skeletal form, pigmentation etc.? Funny how these Nomadic Neolithic Niggas transmitted only two of their traits to the Levantines and Greeks. Funny also that in his more detailed analyses, Angel makes no mention of a Negroid racial strain in either Neolithic farmers or modern Greeks. Neither does Coon for that matter. Nor Brace. Any answers, Negroes? If Arnaiz-Villena's HLA-DRB1 study on Greek-Ethiopian affinities is anything more than junk science, then why has it been rejected by not one, not two, not three, but FOUR world-renowned geneticists? And why have its results never been duplicated by a single other genetic study -- even those conducted using the same HLA genes that Arnaiz-Villena analyzed? This is quite remarkable indeed, but I'm sure the Negroes have a very good explanation. We're all waiting to hear it. Awaiting answers . . . E3b is found at significant frequencies only in fully Caucasoid North Africans like Kabyles, and partly Caucasoid East Africans like Ethiopians and Somalis. It is not found substantially in any unmixed Sub-Saharan Africans. This fact has yet to be refuted (because it can't be). Awaiting answers . . . "...results here are not indicative of anything, except a general non-African* nature for all these* [pre-historic Kenyan] skulls. Display of POPKIN distances (infra) reinforces this and seems to find nearer neighbors among such more generalized populations as Peru, Guam, or Ainu, but also Europeans or even Easter Island." (Howells, 1995) Awaiting answers . . . "The San (Bushmen) in southern Africa are a group that physically looks quite different from other Negroids. Baker (1974), and Coon (1965) among others, have argued they are as different from Negroids as Caucasoids are, and should be treated as a separate race from other Negroids." Awaiting answers . . . BOTTOM LINE What's taking so long? IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 15 June 2005 09:57 AM quote: Originally posted by Topdog: Retarded guido, why did you selectively leave out this: Southern African Khwe- 30.8% [Cruciani et tal 2004] *The South African Khwe have E3b-M35 at a far higher frequency than any East African group. So once again stupid, if E3b is Caucasoid, please state the name and population of this Caucasoid group.** Unresponsive Errone-mouse [no answers, day 3] What's taking so long? IP: Logged
Jizan Member Posts: 174 Registered: Jun 2005	posted 15 June 2005 10:40 AM quote: The 'white' Berbers of NorthWest Africa are 'white' because they are predominently West European biologically and this is reflected in, among other things their maternal lineages. Similary South Arabians are predominently of West Asian J lineage, and yet some are more African than West Asian biologically and in 'appearance'. Why is this? Because Y chromosome lineage is NOT phenotype and Caucasoid genes don't exist. hands off Arabia abeed afrocentrists. That isn't a typical South Arabian at all, He is probably afro-arab leaning more african or black african descent with minor arab blood. Well, here are typical Southern Arabians. quote: E3b is most common among the Borana of Kenya [80%]..... Borana . [This message has been edited by Jizan (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 15 June 2005 11:06 AM quote: That isn't a typical South Arabian at all I'm sure I don't care, neither does.... Prince Bandar. However you are a typical idiot, who completely misses the point. So troll off, you fake 'dutch arab'. IP: Logged
Jizan Member Posts: 174 Registered: Jun 2005	posted 15 June 2005 11:08 AM Ape rasol i know more about how my people look like then you and Prince Bandar's mother was a child from a black slave family originally taken from Sudan. [This message has been edited by Jizan (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 15 June 2005 11:21 AM quote: i know more about how my people look like then you lol. You only know how to selectively spam irrelevant photos, which is why it's easy to turn your moronic approach against you. You are pseudo Arab living in the Netherlands, and apeing the morons at Dodona talking about Arabids as if it were a "pure white race". Bow down to an Arab prince....you pathetic phony... ...and keep dreaming of "Arabid race", known in Europe by a variety other 'names' which I am too polite to repeat. [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged
Jizan Member Posts: 174 Registered: Jun 2005	posted 15 June 2005 11:32 AM quote: You are pseudo Arab living in the Netherlands, and apeing the morons at Dodona talking about Arabids as if it were a "pure white race". I don't live in the netherlands i'm here on temporary basis. quote: Bow down to an Arab prince....you pathetic phony... ...and keep dreaming of "Arabids". He is not pure arab so how is a representative how arabs look like dumb ****? This is like taking a mulatto american as representative how white americans look like. read my post again ya khawal. quote: and Prince Bandar's mother was a child from a black slave family originally taken from Sudan. [This message has been edited by Jizan (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged
osirion Member Posts: 335 Registered: May 2005	posted 15 June 2005 11:37 AM Actually Osama Bin Laden is a real good example of Mulatto Arabic features. What is the issue with the obvious. You are rather unusual Arab. Most Arabs I know don't have a problem with their African ancestry. You are strangely brainwashed by the Slavic slave mothers that spawned your kind. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 15 June 2005 11:38 AM quote: He is not pure arab so how is a representative how arabs look like dumb **** ? They get angry when you tell them the truth. lol. Read carefully: Pure Arab = Oxymoron. [there IS no such thing] Arabs are a heterogeneous mix of West Asians and Africans as proven by their mixed lineages. JizAAm = just plain moron. [he spams pictures as a substitute for not being able to think, or post in a coherent manner] Do you know what anthropologist Loring Brace says about the Arabs? He says that if Arabs like your hero Bin Laden.... ... can be called 'caucasoid', then the term caucasoid is worthless. Now run back to Dodona for another pseudo-anthropology 'fix', you pitiable fake dutch-arab distortion junkie. [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged
Jizan Member Posts: 174 Registered: Jun 2005	posted 15 June 2005 11:44 AM quote: Originally posted by osirion: Actually Osama Bin Laden is a real good example of Mulatto Arabic features. What is the issue with the obvious. You are rather unusual Arab. Most Arabs I know don't have a problem with their African ancestry. You are strangely brainwashed by the Slavic slave mothers that spawned your kind. I don't deny arabs have some minor african blood. I myself am 1/8 Eritrean. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 15 June 2005 12:02 PM quote: Originally posted by Jizan: I don't deny arabs have some minor african blood. I myself am 1/8 Eritrean. A new story with every post. Here is the truth, if you can bear it. Pre-Arab Arabia, aka "Kush", ethnically African, Arabs are a FUSION of African and West Asian groups: quote: In the most ancient records the whole Arabia was commonly designed under the generic name of "Kush", which was extended throughout the entire region comprised between Southern Mesopotamia in the north and the White Nile Basin in the south, that is, including both sides of the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden. Subsequently, there has been a clear distinction between Northern and Southern Arabia since early times, distinction that endured for centuries. The Arabs are the result of the progressive fusion of both entities developed over the original Kushite background. �Southern Arabian peoples: Seven Kushite peoples: Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Ra'mah, Sabtekha, Sheba and Dedan. Twelve Semitic tribes (Yoqtanites): Almodad, Shelef, Hatzarmawt, Yerah, Hadoram, Uzal, Diqlah, Obal, Abima'el, Shaba, Hawilah and Yobab. �Northern Arabian peoples: Early Kushite population: K�sh, Mu�uri, Hawilah, Makkan. Eight Semitic tribes (Midyanites/Lihyanites): Zimran, Yoqshan, Medan, Midyan, Yishbaq, Shuwah, Sheba and Dedan. Twelve Ishmaelite tribes: Nebayot, Qedar, Adbe'el, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadar, Teyma, Yetur, Nafish and Qedmah. What is Arab? Being an "Arab" does not connote in itself either a particular "race" or a particular religion. Arabs come in all colors (e.g., white, brown, or black) and in many religions (Islam, Christianity, and Judaism) quote: Arab Origins: MYTHS VS. FACTS In general, the term "Arab" in modern times is applied to a large group of different peoples that share in common the Arabic language, which for the overwhelming majority of them is not their original one but the tongue imposed to their forefathers by the Arabian conquerors. Such a definition is ethnically unsuitable, in the same way as it would be inappropriate to call "Spaniards" to all Spanish-speaking peoples or "English" to all those non-British folks whose primary language is English. It is true that the Arab countries have not only language in common but also most cultural features as well, yet, this is the result of the colonization and subsequent annihilation of the original pre-Arabic cultures. Therefore, it is more correct to speak of them as "Arabized" peoples rather than Arabs. From the ethnic viewpoint, the term "Arab" is roughly equivalent to "Arabian", namely, in reference to the only people considered to be Arab since the beginning and identified as such by themselves and by their neighbours. It happens frequently that the word Arab is misused on purpose for political strategy: 1) by applying this term as an ethnic definition to the Arabized peoples (mainly North-Africans), in order to increase the number of the Arab population, and 2) in a quite improper way, by calling "Arab" to ancient peoples that existed in the Middle East in order to claim historic rights and legitimate the Arab occupation. So, it is necessary to reach a clear definition in two directions: which peoples are Arabs and which are not. Concerning the origin, the most widespread myth is that Arabs are Ishmaelites, what in the case of all the Arabized peoples is not true at all, and regarding Arabians is only partially true. The original Arab culture has been lost and the most reliable information we have about it comes from external sources, because Islamic revisionism has produced a legendary account in replacement of the scientific truth, and so one of the most fascinating cultures of the past is now missing. The Arabian myths have been created in order to legitimate the "pre-existence" of Islam by ascribing fanciful tales allegedly happened in Arabia to Hebrew Patriarchs and Prophets. Connected with the alleged Ishmaelite identification, the Semitic identity is taken for granted, yet, this is also a half-truth because the Arabian ethnicity and culture arose from an original Kushite stock that was subsequently assimilated by the Semitic tribes that came after them. IP: Logged
COBRA Member Posts: 168 Registered: Apr 2005	posted 15 June 2005 12:02 PM first of arab or not abab it doen't matter. we all muslim brothers. now stright to my point... IP: Logged
osirion Member Posts: 335 Registered: May 2005	posted 15 June 2005 12:07 PM quote: Originally posted by Jizan: I don't deny arabs have some minor african blood. I myself am 1/8 Eritrean. Genetics has proven what we should already know: We are more alike than we are different brother. From King Solomon: 'All contention arises from pride'. 1/4 Falasha (Oromo and Jew??). I do not know if my Grandfather actually had Asiatic blood. IP: Logged
COBRA Member Posts: 168 Registered: Apr 2005	posted 15 June 2005 12:17 PM i think you guys are really misunderstanding what jizan is trying to tell you. even though these guys are arabs but their past lineage was not arab. you really cant tell me that they are pure arab. just like husni mubarak is not a pur arab. by the way jizan, that was out of oder calling the so prince not arab and his mother a slave. [This message has been edited by COBRA (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged
Jizan Member Posts: 174 Registered: Jun 2005	posted 15 June 2005 12:22 PM quote: Arabs are a FUSION of African and West Asian groups. Most Arabians have little to no negroid blood. ('Cept for the Omanis). quote: What is Arab? Someone from the arabian peninsula or a person who has arabian ancestry in his paternal linage. quote: by the way jizan, that was out of oder calling the so prince not arab and his mother a slave. Technically he is just half arab so he is not full arab. And i did not call his mother a slave to insult anybody it was true his mother came from a Sudanese slave family. [This message has been edited by Jizan (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged
Djehuti Member Posts: 1044 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 15 June 2005 12:32 PM ratjizz, do not follow your messed-up mentor, Stupid-Euro! E3b is NOT "caucasioid" it is not even of Eurasian origin, it originated in Sub-Sahara! If E3b is "caucasoid" then why do the Yemenis you are so fond of showing have very little of it? Were you not even paying attention to what these guys said about the origin of E3b??!! [This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged
COBRA Member Posts: 168 Registered: Apr 2005	posted 15 June 2005 01:04 PM [QUOTE]Originally posted by Jizan: Technically he is just half arab so he is not full arab. And i did not call his mother a slave to insult anybody it was true his mother came from a Sudanese slave family. QUOTE] yo jiz is his mother from the north or the south. if she is from the north isn't she not an arab. or are you saying sudanies are not realy arab. IP: Logged
Jizan Member Posts: 174 Registered: Jun 2005	posted 15 June 2005 01:19 PM quote: yo jiz is his mother from the north or the south. if she is from the north isn't she not an arab. or are you saying sudanies are not realy arab. I don't know where his mother originally came from. But judging by his facial features i think it's west sudan.(That is a 'West African' influenced region). He is simply too light to be half south Sudanese. And he doesn't look Aethiopid mixed with Arab so the North East and South falls off. And he reminds me of cape verdeans/latin mulattoes so i think his mother was probably from west sudan. [This message has been edited by Jizan (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 3659 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 15 June 2005 01:23 PM Picture-spam for 2 year olds is over. Back on topic..... quote: Originally posted by Topdog: Retarded guido, why did you selectively leave out this: Southern African Khwe- 30.8% [Cruciani et tal 2004] *The South African Khwe have E3b-M35 at a far higher frequency than any East African group. So once again stupid, if E3b is Caucasoid, please state the name and population of this Caucasoid group.** IP: Logged
COBRA Member Posts: 168 Registered: Apr 2005	posted 15 June 2005 01:28 PM quote: Originally posted by Jizan: [QUOTE]yo jiz is his mother from the north or the south. if she is from the north isn't she not an arab. or are you saying sudanies are not realy arab. I don't know where his mother originally came from. But judging by his facial features i think it's west sudan.(That is a 'West African' influenced region). He is simply too light to be half south Sudanese. And he doesn't look Aethiopid mixed with Arab so the North East and South falls off. And he reminds me of cape verdeans/latin mulattoes so i think his mother was probably from west sudan. [This message has been edited by Jizan (edited 15 June 2005).][/QUOTE] you got point there. some of the features are not standard to East-Africa or The Arabian Pinunsila. He remides me of Colin Powell. [This message has been edited by COBRA (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged
osirion Member Posts: 335 Registered: May 2005	posted 15 June 2005 01:36 PM The Saudi Ambassador to the UN has just finished giving a speech, and walks out into the lobby where he meets President Bush. They shake hands and as they walk the Saudi says, "You know, I have just one question about what I have seen in America. "President Bush says "Well your Excellency, anything I can do to help you, I will do. " The Saudi whispers "My son watches this show 'Star Trek' and in it there are Russians, and Blacks, and Asians, but never any Arabs. He is very upset. He doesn't understand why there are ever any Arabs in Star Trek." President Bush laughs and leans toward the Saudi, and whispers back, "It's because it takes place in the future. IP: Logged
osirion Member Posts: 335 Registered: May 2005	posted 15 June 2005 01:39 PM quote: Originally posted by osirion: The Saudi Ambassador to the UN has just finished giving a speech, and walks out into the lobby where he meets President Bush. They shake hands and as they walk the Saudi says, "You know, I have just one question about what I have seen in America. "President Bush says "Well your Excellency, anything I can do to help you, I will do. " The Saudi whispers "My son watches this show 'Star Trek' and in it there are Russians, and Blacks, and Asians, but never any Arabs. He is very upset. He doesn't understand why there are ever any Arabs in Star Trek." President Bush laughs and leans toward the Saudi, and whispers back, "It's because it takes place in the future. Sorry, it was pretty funny. IP: Logged
COBRA Member Posts: 168 Registered: Apr 2005	posted 15 June 2005 01:41 PM quote: Originally posted by osirion: The Saudi Ambassador to the UN has just finished giving a speech, and walks out into the lobby where he meets President Bush. They shake hands and as they walk the Saudi says, "You know, I have just one question about what I have seen in America. "President Bush says "Well your Excellency, anything I can do to help you, I will do. " The Saudi whispers "My son watches this show 'Star Trek' and in it there are Russians, and Blacks, and Asians, but never any Arabs. He is very upset. He doesn't understand why there are ever any Arabs in Star Trek." President Bush laughs and leans toward the Saudi, and whispers back, "It's because it takes place in the future. lol. nice one ori. Any way, if your an arab or a muslim the US aims to exterminate you. IP: Logged
Topdog Member Posts: 215 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 15 June 2005 01:58 PM quote: Originally posted by Evil Euro: *"The San ([b]Bushmen) in southern Africa are a group that physically looks quite different from other Negroids. Baker (1974), and Coon (1965) among others, have argued they are as different from Negroids as Caucasoids are, and should be treated as a separate race* from other Negroids." Awaiting answers . . . BOTTOM LINE What's taking so long?[/B] What does that have to do with this: "The Vasikela Kung and the Khwe both speak Khoisan languages. However, the Khwe have a physical appearance that is more similar to that seen in many Bantu-derived populations than to that of the Vasikela Kung. Therefore, the Khwe may have originated from the Bantu migration into southern Africa and subsequently may have adopted the Khoisan language. This possibility is supported both by the striking differences between the population-specific haplotypes of the Kung San () and those of the Bantu-speaking Senegalese () and by the greater similarities between the Khwe and Senegalese haplotypes than between the Kung and the Khwe haplotypes." "Khoisan-speaking populations can generally be divided into two distinct groups, the San and the Khoi. San populations consist of 10 different Kung groups ("!Xu" is pronounced "Kung"), as well as the //au//en, Nharo, G/wi, G//ana, !Xo and G!aokx�te, who also speak click-languages. The Khoi consist of five populationstwo Topanaar groups and the Kede, Hei//om, and Nama. A third set of southern-African populations, which coexist with Khoisan-speaking groups, are the so-called Negroids, who are largely Bantu-speakers. These include the Kwisi, Kwadi, Cimba, Dama, Kgalagadi, and Denasena (Nurse et al. 1985). Although the two Khwe (Kwengo) groups physically appear to be "Negroid," they speak a Khoisan language (de Almeida 1965). Consequently, they have been called "black Bushmen." The geographic locations of the populations analyzed in this study, as well as the populations to which they are compared, are shown in figure 1." [Chen et tal, 2000] Whats taking you so long? IP: Logged
Djehuti Member Posts: 1044 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 15 June 2005 02:18 PM quote: Originally posted by Jizan: yo jiz is his mother from the north or the south. if she is from the north isn't she not an arab. or are you saying sudanies are not realy arab. I don't know where his mother originally came from. But judging by his facial features i think it's west sudan.(That is a 'West African' influenced region). He is simply too light to be half south Sudanese. And he doesn't look Aethiopid mixed with Arab so the North East and South falls off. And he reminds me of cape verdeans/latin mulattoes so i think his mother was probably from west sudan. The so-called Arab Sudanese are not even Arab but blacks themselves! Exactly what West African influence exists in western Sudan?? "Aethiopid" and all that. Again, why do you use such terms, what do they mean? Why not address what these guys are saying intead of posting the pics that you like best! quote: Originally posted by COBRA: Any way, if your an arab or a muslim the US aims to exterminate you. What are you talking about laddy? There are plenty of Arabs and Muslims here in the US!! LOL I think you have been smoking too many green leafed clovers, the other kind! [This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 15 June 2005).] IP: Logged
osirion Member Posts: 335 Registered: May 2005	posted 15 June 2005 02:36 PM quote: Originally posted by COBRA: lol. nice one ori. Any way, if your an arab or a muslim the US aims to exterminate you. Yeah, exterminate Arabs. NOT. Both the so called Conservative and Liberal parties kiss the ASS of Arabs all the damn time. The Arabs own to much of America. Good grief, how much more kiss ass does America have to be: "American infidels must where gloves to touch the Quran at Guantanomo bay in Cuba!". IP: Logged
Evil Euro Member Posts: 484 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 16 June 2005 07:24 AM quote: Originally posted by Topdog: "The Vasikela Kung and the Khwe both speak Khoisan languages. However, the Khwe have a physical appearance that is more similar to that seen in many Bantu-derived populations than to that of the Vasikela Kung. Therefore, the Khwe may have originated from the Bantu migration into southern Africa and subsequently may have adopted the Khoisan language. This possibility is supported both by the striking differences between the population-specific haplotypes of the Kung San () and those of the Bantu-speaking Senegalese () and by the greater similarities between the Khwe and Senegalese haplotypes than between the Kung and the Khwe haplotypes." All Khoisan are now mixed with Bantu migrants. The Khwe are just a little more mixed: "The impact of the Bantu expansion on pre-existing hunter-gatherer communities was genetically appreciable. The contribution of Bantu-speaking peoples to the male-specific gene pool of the Pygmies is >50%, and a similar degree of admixture is detected also in the Khoisan-speaking !Kung (45%) and Khwe (58%). These Y-chromosome data agree with mtDNA data showing a higher "Bantu component" in the Khwe than in the !Kung, and they also correlate with the physical appearance of the former." (Source) This has no bearing on E3b in the Khwe, which is of pre-historic East African origin, not recent Bantu origin. IP: Logged

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