Progress: Conceptualising Nile Valley Civilisation

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Author	Topic: Progress: Conceptualising Nile Valley Civilisation
rasol Member Posts: 2671 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 25 March 2005 06:28 PM DK World History Atlas Mapping the Human Journey: Revised and Updated, November 2004 Recommended. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 2671 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 25 March 2005 06:34 PM Structurally divided as follows: World History North America South America Africa Europe West Asia South and SouthEast Asia North and East Asia Australia and Oceania more..... IP: Logged
ausar Moderator Posts: 3591 Registered: Feb 2003	posted 25 March 2005 06:36 PM Could you possibly post on excerpts from the book? IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 2671 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 25 March 2005 06:47 PM AFRICA: Exploration and Mapping. The Early History of Africa 15,000 BCE - 500 BCE Inlcudes following prerequisite information: * Holocene Sahara enters wet phase. * African domestication of cattle. * Nazlet Khater, Naqada, Fayum early Nile Valley Africans. * West African Agriculture [yams, sorghum] * Naquada Normalisation of the Nile Valley's role in human history: The Fertile Valleys of the Nile, Indus, Tigris, Euphrates, and Yellow rivers were able to support large populations and it was here that great 'civilisations' of the Ancient world emerged more... IP: Logged
ausar Moderator Posts: 3591 Registered: Feb 2003	posted 25 March 2005 06:48 PM I recommend the World Eras series. This covers all regions of the world. Also covers other cultural traits as well. See the following: http://www.gale.com/servlet/BrowseSeriesServlet?region=9&imprint=000&titleCode=WERAS&edition= World Eras Ancient Egypt (2615 - 332 B.C.) Volume 5 Edited by: Edward Bleiberg Published by Thomson Gale "Written primarily for high school students and their teachers, this volume contains more than just "kings and battles", providing a cross-disciplinary reference source comparing eras, cultures and social history... Recommended for secondary level school libraries and public libraries dealing with secondary student assignments." -- Catholic Library World (March 2003) World Eras is patterned after the award-winning American Decade's series. Covering areas often overlooked by other publications, World Eras provides a multicultural approach that directly reflects changing curriculum standards, with a cross-disciplinary overview of world history and a strong emphasis of daily life and social history. Each volume in this set contains in-depth coverage of one era and is organized into ten chapters: * World events -- A Chronology * Geography * The Arts -- Sculpture, Architecture, Painting and Music * Communications, Transportation and Exploration * Social class Systems and the Economy -- focusing on social-economic hierarchy * Politics, Law and the Military * Leisure, Recreation and Daily life -- housing, clothing, food, education, etc. * Family and Social Trends -- customs, beliefs, roles and responsibilities * Religion and Philosophy * Science, Technology and Health Each volume includes an introductory essay that provides context and overview of the era written by a scholar in the field and will contain 150 photographs, line drawings, diagrams, illustrations and sidebars. Each chapter within a volume includes an introductory essay, a timeline, entries on specific topics, events or movements, biographies of prominent individuals, and important publications of the era. A glossary of subject-specific terms appears at the end of the book. Published/Released: October 2001 ISBN: 0-7876-4505-2 Shipping Weight: 3.00 lbs 1.36 kgs Price: US $125.00 http://www.gale.com/servlet/ItemDetailServlet?region=9&imprint=000&titleCode=WERAS&type=2&id=114382 IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 1187 Registered: May 2004	posted 25 March 2005 07:00 PM quote: Originally posted by rasol: AFRICA: The Fertile Valleys of the Nile, Indus, Tigris, Euphrates, and Yellow rivers were able to support large populations and it was here that great 'civilisations' of the Ancient world emerged more... Thought Posts: http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/~e118/publications/Brooks-BeyondCollapse-abs.pdf [This message has been edited by Thought2 (edited 25 March 2005).] IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 2671 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 25 March 2005 07:04 PM Throughout the volume Egypt and Nubia are treated as a civilisation unit. No obvious effort is made to segregate the two. Nubia is in turn linked to Axum, Hieroglyhpic writing is dated as 3000BCE, proto-Cananite is located in East Sudan/horn region: phoentic elements of Egyptian writing adopted in Sinai Greece: Cretan scripts may have been influenced by Egyptian Improvment is needed still [no mention of Qustal-Ta Seti for example], but it shows great improvement in the Western discourse, no doubt attributable indirectly to the persistant Africanist influence on the discourse. more later.... [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 25 March 2005).] IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 2671 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 25 March 2005 07:19 PM Three events contributed to the growth and spread of farming in Africa: the spread of cattle pastoralism in the Sahara, the domestication of indigenous crops further south, and the introduction of cereals into Egypt. Drier conditions forced the Saharans to migrate to the Nile Valley, where from 5000 BCE crops had thrived in the fertile nile Valley soil Basic stuff, but it's amusing to see main-stream ws.t text echoing what many African scholars having been saying, since...well Diop. IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 1187 Registered: May 2004	posted 25 March 2005 07:39 PM quote: Originally posted by rasol: Three events contributed to the growth and spread of farming in Africa: the spread of cattle pastoralism in the Sahara, the domestication of indigenous crops further south, and the introduction of cereals into Egypt. Drier conditions forced the Saharans to migrate to the Nile Valley, where from 5000 BCE crops had thrived in the fertile nile Valley soil Basic stuff, but it's amusing to see main-stream ws.t text echoing what many African scholars having been saying, since...well Diop. Thought Writes: I would add that the basic technological substructure for agricultural development and domestication was in place in the Western Desert of Egypt and Central sahara since 7000 B.C. The ability to dig wells and store grain justifies proto-agriculture in Africa prior to the ADOPTION of Near Eastern grains with the shift in the winter rain pattern in the northern Nile Valley. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 2671 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 26 March 2005 05:22 PM quote: Originally posted by Thought2: Thought Writes: I would add that the basic technological substructure for agricultural development and domestication was in place in the Western Desert of Egypt and Central sahara since 7000 B.C. The ability to dig wells and store grain justifies proto-agriculture in Africa prior to the ADOPTION of Near Eastern grains with the shift in the winter rain pattern in the northern Nile Valley. Something to add to the next revision. A few more tidbits from the atlas: 9000 BC Wavy-line pottery making and village settlements in central sahara. Both the herding of wild cattle in the sahara and the cultivation of indigenous plants further south began c. 6000 BCE. From 5000 BCE Asian wheat and barely were grown in Egypt. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 2671 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 27 March 2005 02:29 PM Punt - is also properly located in this world atlas P. 159. It is south of Wawat [Nubia] and East of Irem [Nubia] along the African coast of what is presently Ethiopia, Eretria and Somalia. Punt is listed correctly in the World History Atlas index as - an [ancient] region state of NorthEast Africa IP: Logged
Super car Member Posts: 611 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 27 March 2005 03:20 PM quote: rasol: Punt - is also properly located in this world atlas P. 159. It is south of Wawat [Nubia] and East of Irem [Nubia] along the African coast of what is presently Ethiopia, Eretria and Somalia. Punt is listed correctly in the World History Atlas index as - [i]an [ancient] region state of NorthEast Africa Of course, this is what it is generally known as. It is hard work to put a distortion together, and keep it coherent. The examples of such are plentiful here. You have this Atlas in your possession as we speak, right? The excerpts thus far prove interesting. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 2671 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 27 March 2005 03:37 PM quote: You have this Atlas in your possession as we speak, right? The excerpts thus far prove interesting. [/B] Of course. One page .179 there are a couple of coins showing a Euroepean looking Hannibal and another much smaller one with a more African looking Carthaginian riding an elephant. It is of interest that unlike Ancient Egypt -which is delt with exclusively as a part of Africa, Carthage is discussed primarily in the European section, which is probably appropriate in my opinion. Only AFTER the fall of Dynastic Km.t to the Aamu is "Egypt" discussed jointly in the West Asian and African contexts. This is also an improvement. The biggest problem with this kind of resource is that there just isn't ENOUGH information about any one thing, but it is what it is.... [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 27 March 2005).] IP: Logged
Super car Member Posts: 611 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 27 March 2005 03:48 PM quote: Originally posted by rasol: It is of interest that unlike Ancient Egypt -which is delt with exclusively as a part of Africa, Carthage is discussed primarily in the European section, which is probably appropriate in my opinion. Only AFTER the fall of Dynastic Km.t to the Aamu is "Egypt" discussed jointly in the West Asian and African contexts. In that respect, I hope the Moorish period of Southern Europe, will have been discussed in European and African contexts. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 2671 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 27 March 2005 04:00 PM quote: In that respect, I hope the Moorish period of Southern Europe, will have been discussed in European and African contexts. Speaking of which, I was saving this for one of our ethno-paranoid friends who wants to believe that there was no significant African presence in Medievil Europe, but he quit that troll, before I could hit-em-up again: Pictured here is Allesandro De Medici, the Duke of Florence who lived from 1510-1534, son of an African woman and Cardinal Giulio de Medici who later became none other than Pope Clement VII. On being elected Pope in 1523, Cardinal Giulio was forced to relinquish the lordship of Florence but he appointed a regent for his thirteen year old son Alessandro who had just been created Duke of Penna, and a nephew, Ipollito. Historian Mario de Valdes y Cocom Alessandro states that Allesandro wielded great power as the first duke of Florence. He was the patron of some of the leading artists of the era and is one of the two Medici princes whose remains are buried in the famous tomb by Michaelangelo. As Cocom states, "The ethnic make up of this Medici Prince makes him the first black head of state in the modern western world."-Mario de Valdes y Cocom) [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 27 March 2005).] IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 2671 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 30 March 2005 10:04 AM The Moors are actually not given as much attention in this volume as one would like. IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 1160 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 30 March 2005 10:14 AM I thought you said he was half black rasol....if so how can he be the first black ruler??? IP: Logged
BigMix Member Posts: 34 Registered: Mar 2005	posted 30 March 2005 10:30 AM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: I thought you said he was half black rasol....if so how can he be the first black ruler??? too bad if he has to full up a job application, under race, he will have to tick off African American IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 1160 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 30 March 2005 10:36 AM wrong BigMix...in this situation he was raised in a non black family and assimilated a non black culture. He also had to interact in an Italian community which means he conform to those norms. Frankly, this man was not black at all based on what we know about him. IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 1187 Registered: May 2004	posted 30 March 2005 10:58 AM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: wrong BigMix...in this situation he was raised in a non black family and assimilated a non black culture. He also had to interact in an Italian community which means he conform to those norms. Frankly, this man was not black at all based on what we know about him. Thought Writes: The point is not if he is black or not. The point is that Europe is heterogenous and has had substantial gene flow from Sub-Saharan Africa within the last 10,000 years. IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 1160 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 30 March 2005 11:02 AM Substantial is an absurd word to use Thought. You need to be less careless with the use of language. 'some' gene flow would be more accurate. Many whites in America have black ancestors and often are not even aware of it. IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 1187 Registered: May 2004	posted 30 March 2005 11:07 AM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: Substantial is an absurd word to use Thought. Thought Writes: Please tell us specifically why it is an absurd word to use when some Europeans (like Greeks) have African derived genes in access of 25%. IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 1160 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 30 March 2005 11:18 AM Thought, first of all you don't have a complete picture and you know as well as I that historians have yet to correlate all of the genetic studies with other factors. Twenty years from now we may be able to track the movements of all of these groups of people but we cannot do it yet. twenty years from now 90% of the answers sought on this board will be answered, they are not at this time. If you are trying to tell me that greeks are 25% black African you are not only incorrect but down right silly. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 2671 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 30 March 2005 11:20 AM quote: I thought you said he was half black rasol....if so how can he be the first black ruler??? Careful not to argue by misquoting, the statement: The ethnic make up of this Medici Prince makes him the first black head of state in the modern western world. is attributed to Mario de Valdes y Cocom. You can read more about him here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/ The above is a US government website so i'm sure you'll find the information "credible", and if not....write to your government, not me. IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 1187 Registered: May 2004	posted 30 March 2005 11:31 AM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb the Troller: If you are trying to tell me that greeks are 25% black African you are not only incorrect but down right silly. quote: Originally posted by Thought: Thought Writes: Please tell us specifically why it is an absurd word to use when some Europeans (like Greeks) have African derived genes in access of 25%. IP: Logged

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