posted 29 April 2005 03:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by soma17:
what do you mean rasol?

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I think it's useful to share information. According to science, the Somali population is primarily of East African origin:

The haplogroup E3b1 with the rare DYS19-11 allele (also called the E3b1 cluster gamma) was found in 75.1% of male Somalis

The E3b1-gamma cluster is characterized by DYS19=11 and was seen only in East Africa.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dgarvey/DNA/hg/YCC_E3b.html

But it's not useful to 'use' science to tell people what to believe:

posted 29 April 2005 05:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by soma17:

I would like to post pics how do I do it.

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Thought Writes:

Please tell us how the posting of pictures will assist in understanding the science Rasol mentioned? Furthermore, please tell us how all this ties back into the people of Ancient Egypt and this forum?

posted 29 April 2005 06:28 PM            

What happens many times in the case of Arab migration into various parts of Northwestern Africa and Northeastern Africa is that many times people create false pedigrees. Pedigrees that ultimately try to tie back to a mythical ethnic group or exagerate the one ethnic influence of this ethnic group.

I see this all the time within areas like Morocco,Egypt,Algeria, and even other areas like Somalia. Certainly Arab mixture is present within these area,but the pressence of Arabs has been greatly exagerated to tie unrelated groups into the Arab League and sphere of influence.

Here is something to remeber though:

Islam does not equal Arab!

Most Muslims are not even in Arabia or the Middle East but in Pakistan,Indonesia,and Africa.

Many times when a indigenous African converts to Islam he also retains many older elements.

--Not all modern Arabic speakers are ethnically Arabs. Many regional dialects are completely different from what is spoken in the so-called real Arab countries like Saudi Arabia,Yemen and the Gulf countries.

---Not all people within all Arab League countries claim to be Arabic or Arabs. In most cases they are not.

--Arabs themselves divide themselves into Qahtan and Adanan Arabs. Qahtani Arabs are originally from Yemen and are the original Arab groups. The oldest groups in Southern Yemen are Southern Semetic people like Mahra ,Qarra,and others. Many of these groups are very African looking. Some are not.

posted 29 April 2005 07:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:

What happens many times in the case of Arab migration into various parts of Northwestern Africa and Northeastern Africa is that many times people create false pedigrees. Pedigrees that ultimately try to tie back to a mythical ethnic group or exagerate the one ethnic influence of this ethnic group.

I see this all the time within areas like Morocco,Egypt,Algeria, and even other areas like Somalia. Certainly Arab mixture is present within these area,but the pressence of Arabs has been greatly exagerated to tie unrelated groups into the Arab League and sphere of influence.

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Thought Writes:

Hg J, the typical 'Arab' genetic marker is found in frequencies near ~ 10% in Somalia. Hg E-M2, the typical 'Central/West African' genetic marker is found in frequencies near ~ 10% in Oman. It is of interest that we rarely if ever hear of Omani's claiming to be Africans!

posted 29 April 2005 07:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

Hg J, the typical 'Arab' genetic marker is found in frequencies near ~ 10% in Somalia. Hg E-M2, the typical 'Central/West African' genetic marker is found in frequencies near ~ 10% in Oman. It is of interest that we rarely if ever hear of Omani's claiming to be Africans!

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posted 29 April 2005 09:31 PM            

quote:

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Thought Writes:

Please tell us how the posting of pictures will assist in understanding the science Rasol mentioned?

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I suspect that the intention behind the posting of pictures is not much different from the manner, in which Ayazid tries to make a point.

posted 29 April 2005 10:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Super car:

I suspect that the intention behind the posting of pictures is not much different from the manner, in which Ayazid tries to make a point.

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Thought Writes:

I suspect that what you suspect is right (smile). Fortunately SCIENCE/genetics is moving in a different direction. Africans have a diverse set of physical features. Even on a micro-geographical level such as West Africa the cranial morphology, hair texture, height, limb length, nasal width, degree of prognathism, melanin level and hair and eye color diverge. The same can be said of Europe, however the approach to diversity in Europe is often to find the underlying unity, while the approach to diversity in Africa is to arbitrarily accentuate the differences. I imagine that this imbalanced approached takes place because there is a desire to 'de-Africanize' African populations have relationships with Europe. E3b SPREADING East and NW Africans are one such example. By 'de-Africanizing' the Somali or the Berber's Europe is able to to maintain a prestine source for her 'civilization'.

posted 29 April 2005 10:46 PM            

quote:

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Thought Writes:

Africans have a diverse set of physical features. Even on a micro-geographical level such as West Africa the cranial morphology, hair texture, height, limb length, nasal width, degree of prognathism, melanin level and hair and eye color diverge. The same can be said of Europe, however the approach to diversity in Europe is often to find the underlying unity, while the approach to diversity in Africa is to arbitrarily accentuate the differences.

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Isn't that the truth!

posted 30 April 2005 11:24 AM            

Hg J, the typical 'Arab' genetic marker is found in frequencies near ~ 10% in Somalia. Hg E-M2, the typical 'Central/West African' genetic marker is found in frequencies near ~ 10% in Oman. It is of interest that we rarely if ever hear of Omani's claiming to be Africans!"

posted 30 April 2005 11:39 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by soma17:

My claim isn't that of me trying to claim arab descent nor am I trying to persuade you with pictures to show you " hey look this is a somali they look nothing like them african negroes" but it is my intention to show you the diversity of africa and the different people's whom are indigenous to the continent and how they very well may have genetic characteristics that are similar but for the most part are unique ethnicities.

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Thought Writes:

Well heck soma17, we all agree with that....except Evil E. Pardon me if I misunderstood your position.

posted 30 April 2005 11:44 AM            

quote:

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but it is my intention to show you the diversity of africa and the different people's whom are indigenous to the continent and how they very well may have genetic characteristics that are similar but for the most part are unique ethnicities

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We all know that.

We all know what Somali look like.

posted 30 April 2005 11:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by soma17:

my intention is not like evil euro in that I'm trying to pull somali out of africa and into europe but to put the somali and other east africans in a pool of it's own.

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Thought Writes:

The problem is that the gene pools and phenotypes of East and West Africa grade into one another.

posted 30 April 2005 01:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by soma17:
what are the exact similarities gentically between the groups of east and west africa.

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posted 30 April 2005 01:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by soma17:
my intention is not like evil euro in that I'm trying to pull somali out of africa and into europe but to put the somali and other east africans in a pool of it's own.

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posted 30 April 2005 03:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by soma17:

my intention is not like evil euro in that I'm trying to pull somali out of africa and into europe but to put the somali and other east africans in a pool of it's own.

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Rasol asks:

quote:

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Why?

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Good question, which is best left for him to answer. I have a feeling though, that the answer will not be a logical one.

posted 01 May 2005 09:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by soma17:
my intentions was to show just exactly how the many faces of africa look. How distinct they are and yet point to the similarities and differnces in culture and language.Super car why is that you believe something in which you really don't know. Do you really know exactly what I was going to do and why are assuming that i was trying to show you that east africans are not these typical " west africans". Next time let me present what I wanted to and then come to your conclusion.

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Soma17, it has been told countless times now that 'indigenous' Africans have diverse physical features, and many pictures have already been posted on this issue; so what could you possibly shed light on with pictures, that hasn't already been acknowledged by many here?

You claimed that east Africans ought to be placed in a pool of their own; it doesn't take a genius to figure out the answer of 2 and 2. Why would I need to assume or attempt to read your mind, when your comments are readily available to draw conclusion from?

posted 01 May 2005 10:02 PM            

You claimed that east Africans ought to be placed in a pool of their own; it doesn't take a genius to figure out the answer of 2 and 2. Couldn't fail to notice your talk of the different look of "West African Negroes", what do you suppose is the "West African Negro" look? Why would I need to assume or attempt to read your mind, when your comments are readily available to draw conclusion from"

Exactly where are you clinging to this "west africa negro" that I supposedly put in the context of west african negro features.

Now where does it say anything about me perpuating this west african negro look. I was speaking in terms of fallacy and stereotypes that people hold in the western world i.e look below.

"My claim isn't that of me trying to claim arab descent nor am I trying to persuade you with pictures to show you " hey look this is a somali they look nothing like them african negroes" but it is my intention to show you the diversity of africa and the different people's whom are indigenous to the continent and how they very well may have genetic characteristics that are similar but for the most part are unique ethnicities."

Is everything I say to be twisted and manipulated into what you want to believe.

posted 01 May 2005 10:10 PM            

your name implies that you are somali, is this the case?

posted 01 May 2005 10:17 PM            

quote:

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I was talking in the sense that somali's along with there neighbours the afar ,oromo, etc are very distinct physically and yet similar physically to there african cousins.

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posted 01 May 2005 10:17 PM            

Is there anything wrong in that. Plus I thought up the name really quickly soma and don't ask me are you 17 because that's all so in my username.

It's not what I want you to think it's what I am and for that matter there's nothing wrong in that is ther?

posted 01 May 2005 10:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by soma17:

Exactly where are you clinging to this "west africa negro" that I supposedly put in the context of west african negro features.

Now where does it say anything about me perpuating this west african negro look. I was speaking in terms of fallacy and stereotypes that people hold in the western world i.e look below.

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Soma17, you might want to keep up with updates. When I realized that the "west African Negro" comment was actually that of Cobra's and not yours, I edited the comment. Sadly, you failed to take notice of this development, and hence, the pointlessness of this reply!

quote:

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Somal7:
"My claim isn't that of me trying to claim arab descent nor am I trying to persuade you with pictures to show you " hey look this is a somali they look nothing like them african negroes" but it is my intention to show you the diversity of africa and the different people's whom are indigenous to the continent and how they very well may have genetic characteristics that are similar but for the most part are unique ethnicities."

Is everything I say to be twisted and manipulated into what you want to believe.

Now in the context of a " pool of there own" was that evil euro tries to put somali's (My people) into Europe and out of africa. However I was talking in the sense that somali's along with there neighbours the afar ,oromo, etc are very distinct physically and yet similar physically to there african cousins. In the sense of a pool among the greater "Ocean of africa" or rather a lake.

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Soma17, you still haven't provided a logical reason for presenting pictures on something that the majority of posters and readers here already know.

As far as putting east Africans into a pool of their own, what is that suppose to mean, if your intention was not to seperate them from other sub-Saharan Africans?

posted 01 May 2005 10:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Super car:
Soma17, you still haven't provided a logical reason for presenting pictures on something that the majority of posters and readers here already know.

As far as putting east Africans into a pool of their own, what is that suppose to mean, if your intention was not to seperate them from other sub-Saharan Africans?

Study after study has been posted on the common genetic relationships between Africans, including east Africans, which also help us identify which markers are the result of back-migration. So what is extraordinary about the photos, in that, they will somehow shed more light on genetics?

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I'v said it once and I will say it again it was to show the differences between the african groups.

posted 01 May 2005 10:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by soma17:
I'v said it once and I will say it again it was to show the differences between the african groups.

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And I said this once, and I will say it again: We all know there are variations in African populations, and so what?

quote:

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Soma17:
I came to this site to gain some insight from others and present anything that i could to help others gain fromn my perspectives. Seeing how I had pics of cave paintings show early somali's and there tradtional mates the camel i.e geel.

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Are these cave paintings supposed to shed light on variations in different African groups, and how does this factor into genetics, the basis of this thread? Again, if this was the point, it goes back to the first point I made (see the post above this one).

quote:

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soma17:
and other photo's of ancient punt seeing how I'm from puntland and how it could possibly connect with AE ( This is Egypt search isn't) . Plus I had other primary insight on mini pyramids that are located in somalia.

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You could have started another thread on this, because I still fail to see the connection between what you are saying here, and the genetics that we are dealing with.

quote:

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Soma17:
However you've misunderstood my intentions.

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The 'misunderstanding', which you have failed to prove that is different from your real intentions!

quote:

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Soma17:
I don't want this to be a back and forward argument between us because it's pointless.

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Something we can all agree on, so cut to the chase, and provide a logical reason for your intentions. The reasons you have provided, are pointless, and hence illogical!

posted 01 May 2005 11:40 PM            

My screen name is the name of the Egyptian name for Osiris[Ausar]. Does my name look familiar?

Supercar, I think you misunderstood Somal17's intentions. He does not want to seperate himself from African people. I will open up another thread so Somal17 can tell us more about the modern connection of Somalis to the land of Punt.