posted 06 February 2005 07:07 AM            

New DNA evidence suggests "African Eve", the 150,000-year-old female ancestor of every person on Earth, may have lived in Tanzania or Ethiopia.

A genetic study has shown that the oldest known human DNA lineages are those of East Africans. The most ancient populations include the Sandawe, Burunge, Gorowaa and Datog people who live in Tanzania.

Researchers found a very high amount of genetic variation, or diversity, between the mitochondrial DNA of different individuals in these populations.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed down exclusively through the maternal line. The longer a population has existed, the more variation accumulates in its DNA lineages.

"They are showing really deep, old lineages with lots of diversity. They appear to be the oldest lineages identified in Africa to date," said Dr Sarah Tishkoff, of the University of Maryland, US, who led the research.

Great resource

The so-called African Eve represents the ancestral mitochondrial genome that gave rise to all the different types seen in people today.

Several of the ethnic groups sampled in the study also live in countries surrounding Tanzania.

"It's entirely consistent with what we expected," said Dr Spencer Wells, a geneticist and author. "All the evidence is pointing to East Africa as the cradle of humanity."

Dr Wells added that the data ties in well with archaeological evidence of a long occupation of East Africa by modern humans and hominids.

But Professor Ulf Gyllensten, a molecular biologist at the University of Uppsala, Sweden, was cautious about claims that the oldest DNA lineages were confined to East Africa.

"I wouldn't be surprised if Dr Tishkoff has found old lineages there, but I think we're just skimming the surface," he said.

"Too little research has been done in Africa to get a clear picture. I don't know why, because it's clear there is a great resource of genetic diversity there," added Professor Gyllensten.

'Click' language

Dr Tishkoff's team have collected mitochondrial DNA samples from 1,000 Tanzanians since they began their research in 2001.

Although the data comes from groups living in Tanzania, the Burunge and Gorowaa migrated to Tanzania from Ethiopia within the last 5,000 years.

SEARCH FOR HUMAN ORIGINS
" The handaxe, which was discovered at an archaeological site in northern Spain, may represent the first funeral rite by human beings "

Dr Tishkoff said Ethiopia was also a good candidate for the region where modern humans evolved.

One of the populations sampled in the study, the Sandawe, speak a "click" language like that of Khoisan people from southern Africa.

The Khoisan were previously thought to possess the oldest DNA lineages, but those of the Sandawe are older. This suggests southern Khoisan originated in East Africa, according to Dr Tishkoff.

"That is surprising, because it has been presumed that the oldest populations were in the south," said Professor Gyllensten. Some of the oldest modern human archaeological sites in Africa are in the south of the continent.

Dr Tishkoff said she planned to carry out further research to narrow down the most ancient East African lineages.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/science/nature/2909803.stm

None of these peoples are remotely Caucasoid or even look Caucasoid, stupid Euro is refuted for since they have the most ancient DNA he cannot say they are Bantu migrants. These people have been here for thousands of years. Another DNA test carried out by same people proved that the oldest males lineages came from East Africa from the same populations. Where are Evil Euros prehistoric East African Caucasoids?

posted 06 February 2005 07:38 AM            

Paul Kagame

posted 06 February 2005 10:01 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
1) I never said pre-historic East Africans were Caucasoid. I've shown evidence that they were non-Negroid "generalized moderns".

2) What you posted doesn't address the question of later accretions from the west (which all of the existing evidence points to).

---

You did not prove anything at all, instead it was proven that Meds are hybrids, because of recent Negroid influence (Benin Sickle cell, E3b, etc).

Replies:
1) It was proven earlier that E3b is Negroid, and therefore East Africans are not Caucasoid, or 'generalized moderns'.

2) You have been breaking a commandment in almost every post you made. It was proven (in your thread) that the Bantus only went as West as Kenya. Ethiopians or Somalis never mixed with the Bantus.

posted 06 February 2005 10:16 AM            

quote:

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EuroDisney protests: I never said pre-historic East Africans were Caucasoid.

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posted 06 February 2005 11:43 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
1) I never said pre-historic East Africans were Caucasoid. I've shown evidence that they were non-Negroid "generalized moderns".

2) What you posted doesn't address the question of later accretions from the west (which all of the existing evidence points to).

---

Thought Writes:

1) Define your terms. What is a Negroid in a scientific sense? What is a non-Negroid "generalized modern" in a scientific sense? Would a Tutsi be a Negroid or a non-Negroid "generalized modern" in a phneotypic sense?

2) Central African's migrated into East and West Africa prior to the Last Glacial Maximum spreading L2a lineages.

posted 06 February 2005 01:12 PM            

Nilotics

and Berber

and Bantu

and Cushite

Note, the labeling may be 'accidently' transposed, in order to bait the troll.

These people are of course not related to Europeans, however many Southern Europeans
have the E3 Y chromosome and therefore have Black African male ancestry. EuroDisney knows this.

posted 07 February 2005 07:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Roy_2k5:
1) It was proven earlier that E3b is Negroid

---

You're quite delusional. What's been proven is that Negroids are of recent West African origin, that they spread east beginning c. 1000 B.C., and that pre-historic East Africans were generalized moderns. E3b, of course, is associated with the Caucasoid populations of North Africa, West Asia and Europe, and the hybrid populations of East Africa. It's not associated with unmixed Negroids.

quote:

---

Ethiopians or Somalis never mixed with the Bantus.

---

You really need to start paying attention:

"Caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males. Conversely, the Niger-Congo contribution to the Ethiopian population occurred mainly through females."

posted 07 February 2005 07:57 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
You did in fact say that pre historic East Africans were 'proto-caucasoid.'

---

posted 07 February 2005 08:01 AM            

quote:

---

I said they were "proto-Caucasoid and proto-Mongoloid" (according to Howells). You can add to that proto-Negroid.

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posted 07 February 2005 11:17 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
You really need to start paying attention:

"Caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males. Conversely, [b]the Niger-Congo contribution to the Ethiopian population occurred mainly through females."

[Passarino et al., Am J Hum Genet, 1998][/B]

---

Wait, are you saying East Africans were "generalized moderns until 1000 B.C.??? Post some proof for this idiot. Have you forgotten that there was in fact Negroids in East Africa in the form of Elongated East Africans? Moron, Bantu migrants were agricultural while Elongated East Africans are ALL pastoral and pastoralism was practiced by the ancestors on Elongated East Africans BEFORE 1000 BC, so even the archaeological and linguistic evidence supports the presence on Negroids in East Africa.

Still jumpimg back to that outdated by seven years Passarino study? Read Salas et tal study which is the most updated study on African mtDNA and you will see that Ethiopians have no ancestry from Niger/Congo speakers. Moron!

posted 07 February 2005 11:19 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
I said they were "proto-Caucasoid and proto-Mongoloid" (according to Howells). You can add to that proto-Negroid. In other words, generalized moderns not belonging to any existing race.

---

So why did you leave out the statement that they were also proto-Negroid in your original statement? The answer is that you were distorting.

posted 07 February 2005 05:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by S.Mohammad:
So why did you leave out the statement that they were also proto-Negroid in your original statement? The answer is that you were distorting.

---

posted 07 February 2005 06:05 PM            

quote:

---

When you think about it, he is inadvertently right for leaving out "proto-Negroid", since East African ancestors (the first anatomically modern humans) were already "negroid", they therefore cannot be "proto-negroid".

---

That's funny, but really his scam was to make East Africa caucasian, but he failed to find his prehistoric whites, so that fizzled out.

Now he backtracks and wants East Africa to be 'generalised modern'.

Thus throwing another nonsense word into the mix - more jibberish for him to hide behind.

The irony is, that generalised modern is just another way of saying 'no race'.

And his East African hybreds are now 'hybred' between 'negroid' and 'no race', which would still be negroid.

And that would still leave southern europe afro-european hybred! Oh well, back to the drawing board.

Of course it's all just ruse-rhetoric meant to run away from the simple fact of Black African ancestry in Southern Europe. Most Europeans have more courage than that.

Personally I think he should bring in boss Dienekes-The Greek because clearly EuroPhoney can't get the job done.

posted 07 February 2005 07:10 PM            

quote:

---

Remember, he still hasn't defined those terms that he carelessly tosses around all the time![/B]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Super car:
[B]What I am interested in knowing, is how E3b can have a caucasoid phenotype?

---

The Tutsi were supposed to help him out by being E3B, but they're not. Waiting also for Disney's answer to S. Mohammad's query above.

Have you ever scene such a purely ideological approach to anthropology as EuroDisney's?

Ignore facts, distort data, just make stuff up when all else fails, all to promote the 'pure race' dogma. Carelton Coon would be proud!

posted 07 February 2005 08:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
I said they were "proto-Caucasoid and proto-Mongoloid" (according to Howells). You can add to that proto-Negroid. In other words, generalized moderns not belonging to any existing race.

---

Thought Writes:

Please define the terms "Caucasoid" and "Negroid" and lay out your chronology for the appearance of these physical morphologies in East Africa?

posted 07 February 2005 10:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Super car:
What I am interested in knowing, is how E3b can have a caucasoid phenotype?

Remember, he still hasn't defined those terms that he carelessly tosses around all the time!

---

People like EuroDisney believe that the Caucasians were the original humans. This is why E3b is Caucasian.

posted 07 February 2005 11:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Roy_2k5:
People like EuroDisney believe that the Caucasians were the original humans. This is why E3b is Caucasian.

Thought2: When EuroDisney says, "What's been proven is that Negroids are of recent West African origin", it is pretty apparent that he only sees Western Africans as Negroids. If this is the case, then it would have to include the Fulani too.

---

posted 08 February 2005 07:29 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
...'generalised modern'...another nonsense word...more jibberish...

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ignoramus who doesn't know that "generalized modern" is a real term. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

quote:

---

hybred

---

"Hybred"? Is that like "hybrid" or something?

quote:

---

EuroPhoney can't get the job done.

---

posted 08 February 2005 08:04 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
There's no clearer sign that someone has lost a debate than when he repeatedly claims to have won.

---

Perhaps it's just another example of your reading comprehension problem, as when you quote sources that directly contradict you, and don't seem to be able to understand them, either.

Have you found your East African whites yet?

Any answers to Thought's or S. Mohammad's questions?

No?

posted 08 February 2005 03:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
[B]
Any answers to Thought's or S. Mohammad's questions?

[B]

---

Thought Writes:

Not likely. Evil "E" likes to keep things as obscure as possible. That way he can keep up the ruse of "Caucasoid" East Africans. This ruse of course allows him to make the E3b carrying populations that entered southern Europe during the neolithic "caucasoid" as well. Deep in his heart he knows he is being dishonest.

posted 08 February 2005 04:12 PM            

You are not going to get a straight answer out of EuroDisney for the simple reason that an honest answer would destroy his ethnocentric ideology.

posted 08 February 2005 04:24 PM            

quote:

---

I can only continue to wish the ignorant detractors were just
ignored instead of dominating the board as they do, for
instance the immediate 50 or so replies to the inappropriately
named Building Bridges thread.

I can only continue to hope that someday the serious board
members will only reply to on topic critiques only answering
those who present themselves academically without hatred,
race baiting, name calling, socio political roorag, and other
non civil and unprofessional presentations, instead of wasting
time and disheartening myself along with who knows how many
silent lurkers by voluntarily soiling themselves to get down in the
mud with the muck rakers. I know its hard not to let them dominate,
I have been guilty of foolishly chasing their chimeras at times myself.

al~Takruri

---

posted 08 February 2005 08:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
I concur. There is a difference between honest disagreement within the context of spirited debate, and bad propaganda.

---

Thought Writes:

posted 27 February 2005 07:23 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
I concur. There is a difference between honest disagreement within the context of spirited debate, and bad propaganda.

---

Thought Writes:

quote:

---

Honest and true debate among truth seekers furthers the quest for an in-depth understanding. Were Evil "E" a more honest and forthright person our understanding of these issues would be greatly enhanced through debate and discourse. Unfortunately Evil "E" has turned out NOT to be a worthy adversary.

---

posted 21 August 2005 01:40 AM            

quote:

---

Tanzania, Ethiopia origin for humans
By Paul Rincon
New DNA evidence suggests "African Eve", the 150,000-year-old female ancestor of every person on Earth, may have lived in Tanzania or Ethiopia.

A genetic study has shown that the oldest known human DNA lineages are those of East Africans. The most ancient populations include the Sandawe, Burunge, Gorowaa and Datog people who live in Tanzania

---

posted 21 August 2005 09:15 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Black Africans of the related PN2 clade ethnicities:

Nilotics

and Berber

and Bantu

and Cushite

---

Oh my god!

The ''Nilotic'' is a mixed race tuareg!
The ''Berber'' is a negres but not a regular berber!
The ''Bantu'' is Nilotic!

posted 21 August 2005 09:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by leba:
Oh my god!

---

quote:

---

Note, the labeling may be 'accidently' transposed, in order to bait the troll

---

posted 21 August 2005 10:52 AM            

Berber

Bantu

posted 21 August 2005 11:32 AM            

Berber:

Bantu:

posted 21 August 2005 12:21 PM            

Berber

Cushitic

Nilotic

Bantu

posted 21 August 2005 12:37 PM            

Sandawe:

Cushite:

Nilo Saharan:

Bantu:

posted 21 August 2005 12:40 PM            

Rando et al.
1998
"The majority of maternal ancestors of the NW African Berbers must have COME FROM EUROPE and the Near East SINCE the Neolithic."
Gonzalez et al.
2003

The most prominent North African mtDNA was found to be Haplogroup H at a nearly 20% frequency.

Plaza et al.
"Haplogroup H has a frequency of 36.8% in Moroccan Berbers and 1.4% in....Egyptian Berbers".

The CONSIDERABLY OLDER linear expansion estimate of the Egyptian E3b2-M81 (5.4 ky ago) is also compatible with this scenario.

posted 21 August 2005 12:46 PM            

Berber

Cushitic

Nilotic

posted 21 August 2005 12:53 PM            

Rando et al.
1998

"The majority of maternal ancestors of the NW African Berbers must have COME FROM EUROPE and the Near East SINCE the Neolithic."

Jerba Island Berbers, Tunisia:

"Haplogroup H has a frequency of 36.8% in Moroccan Berbers and 1.4% in....Egyptian Berbers".

The CONSIDERABLY OLDER linear expansion estimate of the Egyptian E3b2-M81 (5.4 ky ago) is also compatible with this scenario.

Siwa Egypt, photos

posted 21 August 2005 12:55 PM            

These people don't look black..

posted 21 August 2005 01:12 PM            

quote:

---

These people don't look black..

---

Many of them do obivously and they are much more African and less European in appearance than the Magrebians.

But you go right on picture spamming, if it makes you feel better.

posted 21 August 2005 01:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Many of them do obivously and they are much more African and less European in appearance than the Magrebians.

---

For Afrocentric people(like you) 'African' is just another word for Negroid.

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:

---

That guy looks west African / Bantu (He probably has slave ancestery).

Notice how you always picks the most blackest looking Siwa's?

You forgot these...

etc

posted 21 August 2005 01:22 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by leba:

'African' is just another word for Negroid.

---

Your foolish words, not mine, so don't try and put them in my mouth. Thanks.

quote:

---

Leba whines: Notice how you always picks the most blackest looking Siwa's

---

Just a moment ago you were claiming they didn't look the least bit 'black'.

Apparently you can't keep yourself convinced from one post to the next, so how can you hope to convince others?

As for your complaints about picture selection - laughable coming from you, since selective picture spam trolling is your one trick. Let us know when you get another. Your argument by picture spam is kid stuff.

For the adults,

Berber origins:
The speakers of the earliest Afrasan languages, were a set of peoples whose lands between 15,000 and 13,000 B.C. stretched from Nubia in the West to far northern SOMALIA in the east.”

They probably came from the African coast of the Red Sea. This view appears to be supported by a genetic study which concludes that their paternal lineage is probably predominantly east African in origin. This is usually taken to imply that the language was introduced from east Africa mainly by males, maybe with some population change. [sources, Ehret, Celenko, Egypt In Africa]

posted 21 August 2005 02:15 PM            

Terms like 'white' 'black' within the current social context is a value of Eurocentric educational process has made many of us (myself included) become blind to our own cultural history. Looking white/black is/should be an incorrect attitude for those who claim submission to god. As I said earlier, African is African, European is European, etc. In short, Berbers are less African than 'Bantu'.

As I understand the Berber context within an East African genotype, that 'founder effect' of the one who was isolated in the Atlas mountains provided a pool that allowed their phenotype to proliferate is seclusion (geographical-mountains) while I am sure that the desert Berbers have a different phenotype (adaption).

I also say that man and chimpanzee share 97-98% of genes??? For all that is worth!!

heli mamnoonah

posted 21 August 2005 02:49 PM            

What is illustrated is that there are native Africans who speak all the above languages and who may look physically similar or distinct from one another regardless of linguistic-ethnicity.

And there are groups of primarily non-African ancestry who speak some of these languages as well.

And yes, Berber is as African as English is European.