posted 25 January 2005 10:04 PM            

Several observations point to eastern Africa as the homeland for haplogroup E3b, that is, it had :

1. the highest number of different E3b clades,

2. a high frequency of this haplogroup and a high microsatellite diversity, and, finally,

3. the exclusive presence of the undifferentiated E3b* paragroup.
   

Moreover:

• Haplogroup E-V6 was observed only in eastern Africa (8.9% in Ethiopia, with a single occurrence in both Somalia and Kenya), further testifying to the richness of E3b lineages in this region.
  

To put it bluntly, they had their “elongated” features before human migration out of the continent, and are not the result of back migrations. Moreover, as one poster pointed out earlier, the Arabian region and the Levant, are part the African Rift Valley. That said, early Arabian peninsula populations had affinities with East Africans. One could safely say, it is the Yemeni that resemble the elongated East Africans, and hence back migration to East Africa will not have altered the elongated types of East Africans. Of course, East Africans weren’t homogenous. As this study shows:

• we found E-M35* and E-M78 chromosomes in Bantu-speaking populations from Kenya (14.3%) but not in those living in central Africa (Cruciani et al. 2002), the area in which the Bantu expansion originated (Vansina 1984). In agreement with mtDNA data (Salas et al. 2002), this finding suggests a relevant contribution of eastern African peoples to the gene pool of the eastern Bantu.
  

In fact when one goes to Kenya, you see a mixture of both “elongated” East African types and the “broad” types. These elongated types also have spread to Northeastern Africa, in Egypt and the so-called Nubians (including Sudan). In West Africa too, especially in the Saharan regions, the elongated types are frequent. One can’t help but notice that some folks in the “West”, can’t seem to make their mind up: one minute Africans are supposed to only be content with the so-called Nubians being African (as if Kemet is independent from the Nile Valley), and the next minute they turn into black Caucasians. So it goes, back and forth. Of course, all this is nonsense, since these folks never left the African continent to begin with. Indeed, these true bred Africans appear to be the most politically abused folks by reactionaries in the West. Interestingly, this game is rarely extended to elongated types in the western Saharan regions.

Sources: Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E3b

posted 25 January 2005 10:08 PM            

East and North East Africans:

Kinky or tightly curled hair is common sight among East Africans. Occasional straight or wavy hair is found among them, but nothing like the European texture.

(courtesy of MediaEthiopia)

Very young Upper Egyptian

Another Upper Egyptian


Upper Egyptians (noticeably wear different shades of blue clothing more so, than other colors)

posted 25 January 2005 11:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:
Not sure is Les Nubians is a good example. One of the girls is from Cameroon and the other is half French and Cameroonian.

---

Thanks, I will update accordingly.

UPDATED! Now we are talking.

posted 26 January 2005 04:11 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kingtut33:
So this means that king tut was nubian. his family did war nubian wigs

---

Well the 18th Dynasty had "Nubian" ties, but I find it necessary to be cautious about the use of that term. Certain people, usually agenda driven, use it at times to denote some kind of a racial difference, when in fact Kemetians used different terms to describe the various sections of southern Nile valley region all the way into what is now modern Sudan. We've gone through those various terminologies here before. What did these people call themselves, besides the Kushites, is a question one might want to ask? However, we know for a fact that Kemetians didn't have one term for that part of the Nile Valley. Nevertheless, this itself has no bearings on the original stock of Northeast Africans, who developed the complex social structures along the Nile Valley, culminating into what is called Nile Valley Civilization. What the parent thread seeks to address, is the idea that "Nubians" and other East Africans can simply be taunted as indigenous Africans at one moment, and then as a foreign component to suite the needs of agenda holders. This flip flopping technique used by distortion junkies in the "West", is interesting to say the least.

posted 26 January 2005 04:25 AM            

quote:

---

To put it bluntly, they had their “elongated” features before human migration out of the continent, and are not the result of back migrations.

---

E3a and E3b are sister haplotypes and children of of E3 (pn2 clade). E3, E3a and E3b all originate in Africa. The Pn2 clade is the dominment Y chromosome type in Africa.

The sister clades themselves do not determine phenotype. No clades do. There are elongated and broad African types of E3a and E3b

Elongated and broad Africans likely diverge based on morphological adaptation to dry and humid tropical climates respectively. Accordingly both types are Black. The haplotypes originate after the base european asian and australian populations migrated out of Africa and so are not indigenous to those regions.

E3a and E3b appear to have split geographically with E3a carriers generally traveling central west and south, and E3b carriers traveling east north and west.

Haplotypes do not determine language [of course], but E3b is most closely associated with the Afrasan speakers an E3a with Bantu speakers - for instance.

And none of this has anything to do with European peoples [self labeled caucasians] other than that they inherit ithe haplotypes as African admixture either directly or indirectly thru either the Levantine corridor; Egypto/Nubian colonisation in the Agean and Southwest Europe from across the Maghreb during the Moorish occupation.

posted 26 January 2005 10:25 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by supercar:
[b]E3b originated in sub-Saharan Africa and expanded into the Near East and northern Africa at the end of the Pleistocene (Underhill et al. 2001). E3b lineages would have then been introduced from the Near East into southern Europe by immigrant farmers, during the Neolithic expansion (Hammer et al. 1998; Semino et al. 2000; Underhill et al. 2001).

Several observations point to eastern Africa as the homeland for haplogroup E3b, that is, it had :

1. the highest number of different E3b clades,

2. a high frequency of this haplogroup and a high microsatellite diversity, and, finally,

3. the exclusive presence of the undifferentiated E3b* paragroup.
   

Moreover:

• Haplogroup E-V6 was observed only in eastern Africa (8.9% in Ethiopia, with a single occurrence in both Somalia and Kenya), further testifying to the richness of E3b lineages in this region.
  

To put it bluntly, they had their “elongated” features before human migration out of the continent, and are not the result of back migrations. Moreover, as one poster pointed out earlier, the Arabian region and the Levant, are part the African Rift Valley. That said, early Arabian peninsula populations had affinities with East Africans. One could safely say, it is the Yemeni that resemble the elongated East Africans, and hence back migration to East Africa will not have altered the elongated types of East Africans. Of course, East Africans weren’t homogenous. As this study shows:

• we found E-M35* and E-M78 chromosomes in Bantu-speaking populations from Kenya (14.3%) but not in those living in central Africa (Cruciani et al. 2002), the area in which the Bantu expansion originated (Vansina 1984). In agreement with mtDNA data (Salas et al. 2002), this finding suggests a relevant contribution of eastern African peoples to the gene pool of the eastern Bantu.
  

In fact when one goes to Kenya, you see a mixture of both “elongated” East African types and the “broad” types. These elongated types also have spread to Northeastern Africa, in Egypt and the so-called Nubians (including Sudan). In West Africa too, especially in the Saharan regions, the elongated types are frequent. One can’t help but notice that some folks in the “West”, can’t seem to make their mind up: one minute Africans are supposed to only be content with the so-called Nubians being African (as if Kemet is independent from the Nile Valley), and the next minute they turn into black Caucasians. So it goes, back and forth. Of course, all this is nonsense, since these folks never left the African continent to begin with. Indeed, these true bred Africans appear to be the most politically abused folks by reactionaries in the West. Interestingly, this game is rarely extended to elongated types in the western Saharan regions.

Sources: Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E3b

[This message has been edited by supercar (edited 26 January 2005).][/B]

---

I agree that in west africa there are a lot elongated
type of africans,and you could find alot of broad headed types in east africa like the nubians since many or most nubians come from southwest africa (mainly the central sahara and central savanna regions of central africa) anyway,so in that since it would be hard to say if nubians are mostly elongated mostly,but seeing alot of their art of the past you could say that most nubians are broad headed types with alot of elongated ones.

by the way in the west african savanna and sahara regions you could find many types,but most would mostly be elongated but there are alot of broad headed types.

posted 26 January 2005 10:36 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:

There are 18 known haplogroups or top level clades labeled A thru R. Clades have sub clades - which are children of their respective top level clade. The children are known as sister clades in terms of their relationships to each other. Those children in turn have children and so on.

E3a and E3b are sister haplotypes and children of of E3 (pn2 clade). E3, E3a and E3b all originate in Africa. The Pn2 clade is the dominment Y chromosome type in Africa.

The sister clades themselves do not determine phenotype. No clades do. There are elongated and broad African types of E3a and E3b

Elongated and broad Africans likely diverge based on morphological adaptation to dry and humid tropical climates respectively. Accordingly both types are Black. The haplotypes originate after the base european asian and australian populations migrated out of Africa and so are not indigenous to those regions.

E3a and E3b appear to have split geographically with E3a carriers generally traveling central west and south, and E3b carriers traveling east north and west.

Haplotypes do not determine language [of course], but E3b is most closely associated with the Afrasan speakers an E3a with Bantu speakers - for instance.

And none of this has anything to do with European peoples [self labeled caucasians] other than that they inherit ithe haplotypes as African admixture either directly or indirectly thru either the Levantine corridor; Egypto/Nubian colonisation in the Agean and Southwest Europe from across the Maghreb during the Moorish occupation.

---

posted 26 January 2005 11:48 AM            

elongated or longed head africans without admixture with other races still have african or negriod features(broad noses,thick lips,kinky hair etc.)even alot of those who have some mixture,but elongated does not mean a black that have some admixture anyway.that is fake research,because elongated only means those with heads that are more narrow and has nothing to do with lips,noses and skin color.
you could find broad head types that have thin lips and light skin tone by the way.
elongated africans look black and are just as black as broad head blacks and you could find these two types in all regions of africa just like you could find different types of whites in all regions of europe and in the same ethnic groups and if you break it down in families as well.

posted 26 January 2005 12:07 PM            

For example: hair color ranges from groups that have white (blonde) thru every variation of yellow - blonde, to groups who tend to be red headed; brown haired groups, and groups with predominent jet black hair.

Hair texture also varies - tending towards wavey, but curly in the south (not suprisingly), and straighter in the north.

European hair texture is 'INTERMEDIATE' between African (curlier and thicker), and East Asian (straighter and thinner)

Unlike skull shapes which involve endless variations which are not traceable to genetics, hair and eye color variation can be linked partly to specific genes and therefore document the fact of heterogeniety among Europeans.

I say, so what?

But for those who believe in the myth of 'race classification', a good place to start would be with the predominently blonde haired blue eyed pale skinned blondes, who at least have specific phenotype features based on specific genes which make them distinct.

Some say that blondeness [a useless trait if ever there was one] is sexually selected by Europeans precisely for that reason.

And of course the politics of this, is what created the now exploded medit. race mythology which some sad folks still cling to by bloodied fingernails. [in order to sweep Europe's diversity under the rug]

Check this out: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2284783.stm

posted 26 January 2005 02:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
To put it bluntly, they had their “elongated” features before human migration out of the continent, and are not the result of back migrations.

---

quote:

---

There are 18 known haplogroups or top level clades labeled A thru R. Clades have sub clades - which are children of their respective top level clade. The children are known as sister clades in terms of their relationships to each other. Those children in turn have children and so on.

E3a and E3b are sister haplotypes and children of of E3 (pn2 clade). E3, E3a and E3b all originate in Africa. The Pn2 clade is the dominment Y chromosome type in Africa.

The sister clades themselves do not determine phenotype. No clades do. There are elongated and broad African types of E3a and E3b

Elongated and broad Africans likely diverge based on morphological adaptation to dry and humid tropical climates respectively. Accordingly both types are Black. The haplotypes originate after the base european asian and australian populations migrated out of Africa and so are not indigenous to those regions.

E3a and E3b appear to have split geographically with E3a carriers generally traveling central west and south, and E3b carriers traveling east north and west.

Haplotypes do not determine language [of course], but E3b is most closely associated with the Afrasan speakers an E3a with Bantu speakers - for instance.

And none of this has anything to do with European peoples [self labeled caucasians] other than that they inherit ithe haplotypes as African admixture either directly or indirectly thru either the Levantine corridor; Egypto/Nubian colonisation in the Agean and Southwest Europe from across the Maghreb during the Moorish occupation.

[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 26 January 2005).]

---

Nice breakdown!

posted 27 January 2005 06:46 PM            

"The oldest remains of Homo sapiens sapiens found in East Africa were associated with an industry having similarities with the Capsian. It has been called Upper Kenyan Capsian, although its derivation from the North African Capsian is far from certain. At Gamble's Cave in Kenya, five human skeletons were associated with a late phase of the industry, Upper Kenya Capsian C, which contains pottery. A similar associationis presumed for a skeleton found at Olduvai, which resembles those from Gamble's Cave. The date of Upper Kenya Capsian C is not precisely known (an earlier phase from Prospect Farm on Eburru Mountain close to Gamble's Cave has been dated to about 8000 BC); but the presence of pottery indicates a rather later date, perhaps around 400 BC. The skeletons are of very tall people. They had long, narrow heads, and relatively long, narrow faces. The nose was of medium width; and prognathism, when present, was restricted to the alveolar, or tooth-bearing, region.

Many authors regard these people as physically akin to the Mediterraneans, hence the label of 'Caucasoids' (or European-like) generally attached to them. However, all their features can be found in several living populations of East Africa, like the Tutsi of Rwanda and Burundi, who are very dark skinned and differ greatly from Europeans in anumber of body proportions.............

From the foregoing, it is tempting to locate the area of differentiation of these people in the interior of East Africa. Now, as mentioned in Chapter 3, the fossil record tells of tall people with long and narrow heads, faces and noses who lived a few thousand years BC in East Africa at such places as Gamble's Cave in the Kenya Rift Valley and at Olduvai in northern Tanzania. There is every reason to believe that they are ancestral to the living 'Elongated East Africans'. Neither of these populations, fossil and modern, should be considered to be closely related to Caucasoids of Europe and western Asia, as they usually are in literature.

Jean Hiernaux

The People of Africa(Peoples of the World Series)

pgs 42-43, 62-63"

posted 27 January 2005 10:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by supercar:
*Mind you, this is not intended to be a photo thread; just a few photos to show: East Africans

East and North East Africans:

Kinky or tightly curled hair is common sight among East Africans. Occasional straight or wavy hair is found among them, but nothing like the European texture.

(courtesy of MediaEthiopia)

Very young Upper Egyptian

Another Upper Egyptian


Upper Egyptians (noticeably wear different shades of blue clothing more so, than other colors)

[This message has been edited by supercar (edited 26 January 2005).]

---

They look like they could fit right into some AE portriats.

posted 27 January 2005 10:23 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kingtut33:
So this means that king tut was nubian. his family did war nubian wigs

---

It's not a Nubian wig. Actually, those wigs were popularized by ancient Egyptians. Africans have used those types of wigs even before AE and Nubia.

What proof do you have to demonstrate that the AE borrowed it from Nubians?

posted 27 January 2005 10:45 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kembu:
It's not a Nubian wig. Actually, those wigs were popularized by ancient Egyptians. Africans have used those types of wigs even before AE and Nubia.

What proof do you have to demonstrate that the AE borrowed it from Nubians?

---