posted 20 January 2005 01:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
In a nutshell the Arabian population of the 6th century were mostly
either traditional, Jewish, or Christian. Dhu Nuwas was a Yemini
who converted to Judaism and like many new proselytes was over
zealous and persecuted the Christian elements. The Byzantines and
the Abyssinian Coptics came to the aid of their Arab coreligionists with
the Abyssinians attaining hegemony over the
peninsula.

At some point in time the Abyssinian Coptics decided to overthrow
the site of the Traditionalists at Mecca where the Qa`aba housed
their idols. Elephants were the tanks of those days and when an
elephant mysteriously failed to obey its mahout it made a great
impression on the Arabs who defeated the Abyssinians regaining
their sovereignty.

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posted 20 January 2005 06:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
The Arabs including Yeminis are more red (brown and lighter) than
black (brown and darker).

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You mean Red like an Somali/South Indian?

My uncle and others whom have been in Saudi Arabia has told me that most Saudi Arabians tend to be more darker skinned like a Dravidian. However in Jeddah, you will find the more Caucasoid looking Arabs.

The lower class Yemenis look more Australoid, which is distinct from the 'Asiatic' or Somali-like Yemenis with similar complexion. They tend to look more like a Jarawa than a Somali. Surprisingly, the Jarawa would be considered more 'African' than even the Somali or Khosiens by Westerners.

Note: I am fully aware that the Mauritanian were the Moors, and are much darker than the Yemenis Arab.

posted 20 January 2005 06:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Roy_2k5:
Surprisingly, the Jarawa would be considered more 'African' than even the Somali or Khosiens by Westerners.

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posted 20 January 2005 09:12 PM            

You asked about the ethnicity of the Moors and a interesting discussion ensued.

So add this to the points to ponder:

ANWAR CHEJNE tells in his informative text, "MUSLIM SPAIN: IT'S HISTORY AND CULTURE" the following: " But the most relevant and significant views on Islam are those of Alfonso X(1252-1284), a king and scholar.... Before assuming the throne, Alfonso X was in intinate contact with Muslims, first as governor of Murcia and later as a king who surrounded himself with Muslim savants....In fact, like his immediate predecessors he gave serious consideration to the expulsion of the Moors".

But Alfonso was quite nationalistic and he expressed his views on the Moorish presence in his "CRONICA GENERAL DE ESPANA". For Alfonso it was a big calamity that had befallen the Visigoths when they succumbed to the Moorish invasion at the behest of King Roderick. He was quite upset at how the Moors conquered Spain as is demonstrated by these comments: "All the Moorish soldiers were dressed with silk and black wool that had been forcibly acquired; the reins of their horses were like fire; their BLACK faces were like PITCH and the most handsome of
them was like a cooking pan; thus their eyes shone like flames; their horses fast as leopards...The vile people of AFRICA who were not used to kindness...are now exalted 'Poor Spain. Your death was so afflicted...."

So obviously King Alfonso saw the Moors as blacks--persons of Africoid phenotype.

Ivan van Sertima has also edited a text titled "GOLDEN AGE OF THE MOOR" whose virtue is that it contains many paintings and visual depictions of the Moors as they were seen in the days of their presence in Spain. They were clearly Africoid in appearance.

posted 21 January 2005 12:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by efe_adodo:
Can anyone give me a list of All the modern day countres where the Moors originated from?

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I believe this question has indirectly been addressed in previous posts here. I think AlTakruri broke it down rather appropriately into African and non-African perspectives. What is important is that the Moors as applied to southern European conquests, involved Islamic Africans, including black Africans.

quote:

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AlTakruri posted earlier:

By and large, when it comes to al Andalus aka Muslim Spain the
Imazighen and certain Islamized Gnawa were Moors whereas the
Arabs and Arabized east Mediterraneans, Iraqis, and Iranians were
Saracens.

To nonAfricans there may be confusion over who are Moors but in Africa the Hasaniya speaking Beydan and Haritin of Mauritania are the Moors. They are the only people in Africa other than the few Arma along the Niger, who call themselves Moors. Many of the inhabitants of the original old Mauretania were pushed south by the Arabs...

Yes the Europeans were most impressed by the al Murabitun and al Muwahhidun who were mainly Zenaga Imazighen and Gnawa Atlantics
found on either side of the river Senegal. These people became the Moors par exellant in the European psyche but the Luso Hispanics
did not consider their own familiar nonMuslim Gnawa slaves and servants as Moors whereas in the British Isles nonMuslim Gnawa were called Moors, like Elen and Margaret More and Peter Moryen free favorites and courtiers of queen Margaret and king James of Scotland.

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posted 21 January 2005 01:09 AM            

Moorish Black Noble men playing chess.

*For expanded version of the above picture, just copy & past this link to your browser:
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cantigas/images/libro_2.gif

Couldn't allow the size of the photo to distort the page of the thread.

Depictions of four Moorish Princes killed in battle with Aragonese forces. (courtesy of playahata.com)

posted 21 January 2005 07:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by supercar:
This makes no sense.

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posted 21 January 2005 07:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Roy_2k5:
I meant that the Jarara Australoid do look very Negroid, even more so than a Somali. I do at times use the term 'African' and 'Negroid' interchangeably, but I picked up this habit in the West.

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I understand what you are saying.

Australians also have some physical characteristics which are distinct from most Africans [including often white/blonde hair]. There was a Cavalli-Sforza [not my favorite reference] genetic study which reputed to show that Austrialians and Africans were the most genetically distant populations on earth. However both are also distant from Europeans.

Australians were classified by some physical anthropologists as racially caucasoid - but this makes no 'genetic' sense. Others classified them as racially 'negroid'. But this makes no genetic sense either.

Australians do not 'need' to be classified in terms of Africans or Europeans any more than Europeans need to be classified as 'Australoid'.

The race classifcation system is really a scam. It's a contrived European caste system meant to provide pseudo-scientific rationale for white supremacy.

posted 21 January 2005 09:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Roy_2k5:
I meant that the Jarara Australoid do look very Negroid, even more so than a Somali. I do at times use the term 'African' and 'Negroid' interchangeably, but I picked up this habit in the West.

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posted 21 January 2005 12:45 PM            

....which causes you to relapse into increasingly hysterical engraged ranting? Uh, ok. Tell us more.