posted 11 December 2003 09:09 PM            

EGYPTIAN:Bu nafret su em bu bon, "a state of good has become a state of evil"
WOLOF :Bu rafet mel ni bu bon, "a state of good has become a state of evil"

EGYPTIAN:mer on ef, "he loved"
WOLOF :maar on ef, "he loved passionately"

EGYPTIAN:mer on es, "she loved"
WOLOF :maar on es, "she loved passionately"

EGYPTIAN:mer on sen, "they loved"
WOLOF :maar on sen, "they loved passionately"

posted 12 December 2003 12:00 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:
I strongly disagree with Ausar, the Ancient Egyptian language is NOT a dead language. It not only survives as Coptic Egyptian, but also in related languages such as Wolof(Senegal) and Yoruba(Nigeria). Coptic is a continuation of the Egyptian language, kept alive in the liturgy of the Coptic church and covering an unbroken span of at least 40 centuries, the longest such record known for a language. These colonized Africans kept their language alive, banned from colloquial usage by the Arabs, in much the same ingenious manner that other Africans kept the ancient African gods alive while being forced to adopt Christianity (i.e., Santeria in Cuba, Mardi Gras and Voudum in Louisiana). Osiris is still Usiri and Isis is still Ese (Isi) in the Coptic language (The Greeks added an 's' to Ancient Egyptian proper nouns).
As for the Egyptian language surviving in Wolof, this is simple to demonstrate:

EGYPTIAN:Bu nafret su em bu bon, "a state of good has become a state of evil"
WOLOF :Bu rafet mel ni bu bon, "a state of good has become a state of evil"

EGYPTIAN:mer on ef, "he loved"
WOLOF :maar on ef, "he loved passionately"

EGYPTIAN:mer on es, "she loved"
WOLOF :maar on es, "she loved passionately"

EGYPTIAN:mer on sen, "they loved"
WOLOF :maar on sen, "they loved passionately"

For a more detailed analysis see my:
http://www.geocities.com/wally_mo/egypt_lang.html

---

i don't think ausar is saying that the ancient egyptian language is dead, though he may be so i shouldn't be speaking for him. but that isn't the question i was asking. i'm aware of the similarities of Wolof and Yoruba to the Kemite language and i agree with you on that point.

i was just curious to know if the coptic language was still spoken by coptic christians.

posted 12 December 2003 02:48 AM            

nakhla, millaad, ghaali, wahba, morqoS, Hanna, layla, samia, sohair, ni3mat, moneer, mamdwH, samir, salwa, sawsan, 3aziz, 3izzat, shinwda, gameel, sam3aan, etc, etc, etc.

She replied: I don't know, may be its really Egyptian!!

If there is ANY sort of Coptic spoken language then why the Copts, or at least few of them, don't use it in everyday life or between themselves in any special occasion?

By Coptic language some scholars mean the Coptic trial to replace the Egyptian writing lines, like Hieroglyphs and Demotic, by a modified Greek line. It was a trial born dead because it didn't match the phonetic values of the spoken Egyptian.

The famous Coptic linguist Anton Zikri wrote in his famous book 'Key of Ancient Egyptian Language':

**most of the religious Coptic words that still be used in Coptic Church are of Greek source**

Here is another testimony that was posted on the Guardian discussion board:

>> By Su on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 12:21 pm: Edit

Luis

**We are told that Coptic is the closest surviving language, but when I've attended Coptic ceremonies, it seemed to be more a mixture of Arabic and Greek or Latin, which I suppose makes sense because they were the languages to follow ancient Egyptian**

**Interestingly though, I've found that many transliterated hieroglyphs are very similar to Arabic words used today, so maybe something of the language carried on after the Arab conquest**

Su <<

[[ The Spoken Egyptian Language has NEVER changed one bit from far pre-dynastic eras up today ]]

posted 12 December 2003 10:09 AM            

But as far as the modern Egyptian language not being any different from the ancient language, can you expand on that, preferably with some examples. I've read some of ausar's posts where he mentioned that many ancient words still existed in the upper egyptian language, but i've never read anything that suggested that modern egyptians speak anything other than arabic.

posted 12 December 2003 02:11 PM            

The first example from alphabetic point pf view is:

[G1-G29] = ab = father.

Please see Wallis Budge EHD p.5a

Here we have only one grapheme [G29] or the Jabiru bird with its famous phonetic value (ab / ba). Wonderfully, all combinations of this word are still used in Egypt by the same meaning like:

ab, aba, ba, baba, aboy, aboya, etc. They all mean 'father'.

It is also conducted to many other languages by the same phones and the same meaning.

A second example is the AE Hieroglyph [F40] defined by Gardiner as 'backbone'. Its phonetic value is 'aw' and is used in Egyptian language by this phone to mean:

[F40] = aw = or

It was also conducted to other languages by the same phone and same related meanings.

A third example is the famous AE star [N14]. Its phonetic value is (bs/bS) and related phones. It still been used in Egypt to mean:

[N14] = bS = boSS = look.

It is not a formal Arabic word but pure Egyptian and still be used frequently by all the Egyptians. Of course it has many derivatives like for example the Egyptian word 'baSSaaS' which means 'spy'!

A forth example is the famous AE woman sign [B1]. Its phonetic value is 'st'. It still been used in Egypt to mean:

[B1] = st = woman.

It is not an Arabic word but pure Egyptian.

In Egyptian we say: 'wad, bt, st' to mean 'boy, girl and woman'. These words have nothing to do with Arabic language. They are pure AE words and are still be modern Egyptian words that anyone could hear them allover Egypt.

Likewise there are tens of other similar examples like for instance:

[Y5] = mn = from / who

[D7] = 3n = eye

[D2] = Hr = free

[G20] = m3 = with

[G25] = akh = brother

[S40] = ws / wS = sponsor

etc,

If we reach some full alphabetic AE words then we can find hundreds of them that are reported in AE Hieroglyphic texts and that are still be used in Egypt today. Nearly 60-70% of everyday spoken words used by modern Egyptians are not formal Arabic. I have recorded hundreds of such words. When I cast them or read them to the attendants they become extremely surprised!

posted 13 December 2003 12:25 AM            

>>are we talking about the "ancient" ancient egyptian language or the "more modern" ancient egyptian language<<

They both are the same. Here I would like to repeat the first statement of 'Alsaadawi's Theory on True Hieroglyphs':

**the Egyptian spoken language has Never changed one bit from far pre-dynastic times up today**

I introduced a huge volume of evidence to prove this evident Fact.

>>I know that Ancient egypt was conquered and ruled by several empires during its latter era so there should be remnants of all of these "occupations" in the language?<<

On the contrary, Egyptian language was intensely crept, conducted and converged into the weak languages of all those invaders. The Greek language, for example, is a direct derivation of the Egyptian language in many aspects either in written graphemes or in oral utterance. You can simply check this by comparing the basic Greek alphabetic graphemes and their corresponding phones with the AE Hieroglyphs and their corresponding phones.

Even the English alphabets are pure imitation and duplication of AE Hieroglyphs either in graphical or phonetic construction. Here are only some few examples:

English a = G1 = the Egyptian vulture.

English b = D58 = the Egyptian leg.

English c, s = S29 = the Egyptian folded cloth.

English D = D46 = the Egyptian hand.

English e = M17 = the Egyptian reed.

English f = G40 = the Egyptian flying bird.

English G = W11 = the Egyptian jar.

English h = O4 = the Egyptian shelter.

English L = V13 = the Egyptian rope.

English N = N35 = the Egyptian rippled water.

English q = N29 = the Egyptian seat.

English R = E23 = the Egyptian lion.

English T = S36 = the Egyptian umbrella.

English V = F13 = the Egyptian horns.

English X = Q4 = the Egyptian head-rest.

English y = N23 = the Egyptian canal.

English Z = I15 = the Egyptian serpent.

Notice that all these phonemes are equivalent in both graphical and phonetic values.

>>Also I'm sure the language naturally evolved and changed like all languages do over time. I'm I making sense?<<

No. I explained before that the Egyptian language is really a unique unchangeable language because of its bilateral phonetic values. It means simply that it could constitute infinite number of words and still have logic meanings. All imported words from other languages are of Egyptian origin due to this distinct quality. There are hundreds of examples. I cast here two examples only:

The English word 'hello' or 'hallow' which the Egyptians say now is in fact of Egyptian origin given by the grapheme 'hl' from which the Egyptian word 'hala' or 'ahlan' evolved. 'hala' means in Egyptian 'welcome'.

The English word 'free' or 'far' is evolved from the Egyptian grapheme 'fr' or [N31] that was conducted also into Arabic as 'farr' which means 'flee' or 'to be free'.

>>Is copt really ancient egyptian language with influences from the dominating cultures that occupied?<<

No. Coptic was a foreign trial to replace the Egyptian writing lines like Hieroglyphs and Demotic by a modified Greek line. This trial was born dead because Greek alphabets do not match the Egyptian phonetic values. The Copts themselves are the first peoples to reject it and refuse to use it. That is why the Coptic writing line is a dead one. On the other hand the Copts never changed their Egyptian spoken language that they still use it up today. This is different than some Greek religious statements that Copts use in Churches. Some Coptic people try hard to convince others that this limited Greek religious wording was the real spoken Coptic. But most of the Copts in Egypt refuse all these trials and insist to name their children after the real and True Egyptian language. Just talk to any Coptic in Egypt and ask him about his name and the names of his mother and father and grandfathers, you find that they are all pure Egyptian but Not the Claimed Vague Dead Coptic.

posted 13 December 2003 11:43 AM            

your post is very interesting. i must admit i'm particularly fascinated by you comparisons with the kemite symbols and the english alphabet. there are some definite similarities. i've never noticed that. but it makes some sense because the english alphabet basically comes from latin, which was influenced by greek, which was influenced by kemet.

posted 13 December 2003 12:53 PM            

From: "Jim Bowles" <jimbow@h...>
Date: Sat Sep 30, 2000 12:55 pm
Subject: Ossama Alsaadawi & English alphabets

I am interested in a statement that Ossama Alsaadawi made about English alphabets being derived (directly) from Hieroglyphs.

I have studied the Pyramid Texts in English translation, for many years, and have found "word mazes" with in them. There'll always be a "clue" along the way that tells you [what you should read] when you've exited the maze correctly. I have been fascinated that these should work in English. But perhaps the work by Ossama Alsaadawi suggests why.

A friend asked me whether hieratic script came from the hieroglyphics also?

Looking forward to a very pleasent exchange.

James Bowles
author, "The Gods, Gemini, and the Great Pyramid."