posted 28 December 2004 06:32 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Penny:
Do you think Egyptians lie more than other nationalities. Do they see it as lying or just stretching the truth, is it a national habit, a way of life, a joke or what.
What is the reason behind it and why is straight honesty so hard in their society.

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Yes Egyptians lie, yes others lie too. Some are even pathological liars. I did some extensive research into this after being involved with the latter. I think I could write a book at this point, but then there are already a million on the market now.

Lying is so destructive, and those who do it, are found out, sooner or later. Don't even bother confronting them on this, as they will either deny it, or else become mean and vindictive. I wasn't the only one who caught on to this, and yet after losing some very good friends, this person still continues lying. The best thing to do is RUN and run fast away from this person.

Habitual lying is a sickness, and professional help is a must.The problem is, that they usually never seek the help that is needed. You will often find that habitual liars also are drug/alcohol abusers also.

I spent over a year being involved with one, and I still am shocked and outraged at the lies I was told. You never forget the betrayal of friendship offered. I also feel quite stupid in that I believed even some of the most outrageous stuff, even when "alarm bells" were ringing everywhere from the very beginning.

Laura

posted 28 December 2004 06:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Penny:
Do you think Egyptians lie more than other nationalities. Do they see it as lying or just stretching the truth, is it a national habit, a way of life, a joke or what.
What is the reason behind it and why is straight honesty so hard in their society.

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Dear Penny,
I am Egyptian and i ensure what u saying. yes Egyptians lieing too much i don't know why?. but i think may be cause they always under presure (sometimes plotical presure. other time eat presure,...etc) i don't give them execuses but that true.

Here the lieing percentage is too much so sorry to say so

posted 28 December 2004 07:44 AM            

For some reason there are many Egyptians who are experts at this. However, this does not mean that all Egyptians are liars. But it does go some way to explaining why many Eopreans get into difficulties when they believe what they are told.

posted 28 December 2004 07:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Egyptians do not lie - they invent their own truth.

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LOL... I also think it has something to do with many of them being wonderful storytellers and if you tell the story enough times fiction becomes truth. One man actually had me believing he kept pink camels on his farm, he was so convincing... but them maybe I am gullible

posted 28 December 2004 08:34 AM            

So they don't want to disappoint people so rather than telling the truth they will lie. This is true in government departments as well. Yes your papers will be ready.

So this then spills over WITH SOME of them to a complete inability to tell the truth under any circumstances.

I think fellow Egyptians know when they are lying and when they are telling the truth. I wish I knew how.

posted 28 December 2004 03:37 PM            

I also hear 'we will see' but dam I had not got it translated yet!, so there goes the earings I was looking at the other day

posted 28 December 2004 04:40 PM            

Getting better but still weak, haven't left the house properly for a month!!!!!!!!! Dr getting happy though, thanks for asking.

quote:

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Originally posted by Penny:
Jane I have exactly the same problem with inshallah, but find myself also using it a lot these days. I also hear myself saying what my mother always said...'god helps those that help themselves'

I also hear 'we will see' but dam I had not got it translated yet!, so there goes the earings I was looking at the other day

Hope you are feeling better
All the best Penny

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posted 28 December 2004 09:09 PM            

Take for instance, my brother-in-law, the doctor/pharmacist. He did not get the research/study visa he wanted so he doesn't trust me as an American. He was really angry and will not forgive America. I cornered him conversationally that if he was accepted for the visa he would not be so vindictive towards me.

Though case in point my father and mother-in-law will not lie to me. If either of them catch my brothers-in-law not being truthful or harsh with me, Dad will drag them into the neighborhood Mosque and have them repent in front of the Sheik.

Though I have been more than honest, even when asked a question which a reply might bring pain or humilation to myself or others I have been honest. This shocks the **** out of my in-laws. My husband will often word a question in order to make lying easier for me, but I won't.

Somehow honesty and lack of tactfulness is also a trait of my husband, for the most part. He does lie to cover for others, but I find him out.

Eventhough my parents have failed miserably in many ways, lying was never allowed. White lies or what others call tactfulness wasn't even an option or a 'skill' for me untill I was near 25 years old.

Even when sightseeing, I noticed a difference between Allah fearing merchants/salesmen and indecent troublemakers. When buying something I was often given an outrageous price first and then someone would come over from another stall and point, shake and yell. Then the price dropped considerably. The pissed off dude/merchant had prayer beads in his hand and would smile and nod his head, gave me an Islamic blessing of some sort and told me to say hello to my father-in-law.

posted 31 December 2004 08:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Penny:
Do you think Egyptians lie more than other nationalities. Do they see it as lying or just stretching the truth, is it a national habit, a way of life, a joke or what.
What is the reason behind it and why is straight honesty so hard in their society.

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posted 31 December 2004 09:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Natashiah:
Hehehehe...my dear Penny...really by now you should know!

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Hi Natashiah hows it all going????

Yes true after 3 years I can answer my own questions. I think 2005 will see me on the path of .....if you can't beat them join them' way of life. No more brick walls for me. Should be fun

All the best for 2005
Penny

posted 31 December 2004 10:18 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Penny:

come on!!! is the pope catholic????

Do you think Egyptians lie more than other nationalities. Do they see it as lying or just stretching the truth, is it a national habit, a way of life, a joke or what.
What is the reason behind it and why is straight honesty so hard in their society.

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posted 03 January 2005 06:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Penny:
Do you think Egyptians lie more than other nationalities. Do they see it as lying or just stretching the truth, is it a national habit, a way of life, a joke or what.
What is the reason behind it and why is straight honesty so hard in their society.

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In my experience I've found that they lie more than most nationalities, but maybe they don't see it that way. And if you are a foreigner they will lie to you more.

If they tell you something cost $50, you best believe it only cost $20. If they tell you they will be their at 8:00 am, expect them around 1:00 pm. These are a whole lot of "little white lies" that add up too quickly.

And no offense, I'm gonna say some of them, so as not to generalize too much, but where there is a liar, there is also a thief! Some will steal right from under your nose. I have a friend that owned a sheep farm with some Egyptians working on it, and they stole a few sheep, and told him the sheep died, just one example.

And the women, are worst than the men, and will cry, cry, cry, if they are caught to try to make you feel bad. For example you may meet a village girl who moved to the city, and she could have you believing her dad is the Minister of Foreign Affairs, and will swear on the Holy Koran, not knowing that you could be friends with the Minister and know his entire family.

posted 03 January 2005 08:14 AM            

I know a Tibetan who worked in used car sales for years and didn't make a sale for the first 4 months. After that his sales still stunk. But the dealerships reputation did improve and brought in alot of ethnic Asians that knew they could trust him.

I still run into him once a while and he will ask me, "sonomod your face is so broke out, what is bothering you?" "The bags under your pretty eyes are so hideous, aren't you sleeping?" Then I will hear a litany of way too honest comedy improve of how drunk and stupid his neighbors are, and of course I have my own tales in that department.

posted 06 January 2005 08:36 PM            

But worst of all is the thieving liar because you are not sure whether you have been robbed or not. The market place is full of them, look at Robert Maxwell for example.

posted 07 January 2005 05:25 PM            

I swear by God-this has happened

but i don't think this a egypt thing

posted 07 January 2005 11:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ramyshaut:
Salama topic religion:

I swear by God-this has happened

but i don't think this a egypt thing

more liek a muslim arabic thing !!

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Shove it up your ass!!!

You know George W Bush is not arab and not muslim.

Its a person to person thing!!!

Copeche?

posted 09 January 2005 11:34 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com:
Thieves and liars walk hand in hand. If I had to choose between the two I would go for the thief because with a thief you know where you stand, with a liar you dont.

But worst of all is the thieving liar because you are not sure whether you have been robbed or not. The market place is full of them, look at Robert Maxwell for example.

I wont tell a lie on this, but I havent met a single Egyptian who wasnt after getting my money. To outright take it they have never done, but to get it by lying most of them try. The moral of this is that whilst we would see it as deception, egyptians dont seem to see it this way. Provided you (if you are stupid enough) to "give" it to them, then they havent "stolen" it.Technically that is right, but morally it is still wrong. But then I havent come across many people here who seem to have morals as we know them in the west. This maybe why so many people get "duped" out of their money. Charlie

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posted 29 January 2005 06:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com:
Thieves and liars walk hand in hand. If I had to choose between the two I would go for the thief because with a thief you know where you stand, with a liar you dont.

But worst of all is the thieving liar because you are not sure whether you have been robbed or not. The market place is full of them, look at Robert Maxwell for example.

I wont tell a lie on this, but I havent met a single Egyptian who wasnt after getting my money. To outright take it they have never done, but to get it by lying most of them try. The moral of this is that whilst we would see it as deception, egyptians dont seem to see it this way. Provided you (if you are stupid enough) to "give" it to them, then they havent "stolen" it.Technically that is right, but morally it is still wrong. But then I havent come across many people here who seem to have morals as we know them in the west. This maybe why so many people get "duped" out of their money. Charlie

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IN TOTAL AGREEMENT WITH YOU PAL.
HONESTY IS A FOREIGN CONCEPT IN EGYPT.

its easy to beat the liars of egypt (or anyplace). DO NOT BELIEVE!! SEE PROOF!!!

posted 30 January 2005 10:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Michelle - believe it or not for once we totally agree - is there a chance that we will be civil to each other one day

The "I swear" bit is something I hear every day and it can cover the most hienous of lies. Margaret Thatcher summed it up very nicely when she said "If you have to tell someone that you are powerful or that you are a lady, then you are not". This can be applied to truth too. If someone swears they are telling the truth or tells you that you can trust them, then you cannot. If it was reality then it would not need to be stated.

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This quote of Maggie is one of my favorites! LouLou, you might remember from the conversation with my husband that he does 'swear' when getting emotional during conversation... He swears mostly though when explaining some Islamic issues, less when talking about 'real life'... 'Swearing syndrome' sometimes occur when the individual is highly engaged in the dispute and overall emotional.
In general I completely agree that if there is a need to emphasize the truth of the statement it automatically puts it into question. And Egyptians SWEAR on EVERYTHING quite a lot indeed...

posted 02 February 2005 08:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sumaika:
Do egyptians tell the truth???

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posted 23 February 2005 08:17 AM            

2. Taxi driver swore fare is 40. It dropped to 20 when I began to walk away.

3. salesman tried to sell me a shirt that had a PRICE TAG OF LE67 for LE180. he did not know i could read the numerals!

posted 23 February 2005 12:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MENTAL PROBLEM:
I have just returned from a trip to egypt and examples:
1. Egyptian lawyer told the cost of issuing Int'l driver's license is LE400. I found out it's under 100

2. Taxi driver swore fare is 40. It dropped to 20 when I began to walk away.

3. salesman tried to sell me a shirt that had a PRICE TAG OF LE67 for LE180. he did not know i could read the numerals!

does being a foriegner = idiot ?
do they feel shameless for LYING??

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Its kind of historic. A sultan from Mali went through several centuries ago and to put it accuractely if you were donald trump and couldn't read the numerals or argue about being ripped off. Well that explains his trip to Mecca. He had to borrow money in Cairo for his return trip to Mali, and yes he was charged interest (Very UnIslamic).

Mind you Cairo was an inbetween spot to change caravans and off load or pick up merchandise to or from the far east. Then the Spanish explorer Gama could the Cape of Good Hope. Most Traders cared about quality, quanity, variety, not price.

Yes it has become customary, its in the fabric of soceity. Its nothing against you. Now try to change 1200 years of commerce isn't going to happen overnight.

posted 23 February 2005 01:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MENTAL PROBLEM:
I have just returned from a trip to egypt and examples:
1. Egyptian lawyer told the cost of issuing Int'l driver's license is LE400. I found out it's under 100

2. Taxi driver swore fare is 40. It dropped to 20 when I began to walk away.

3. salesman tried to sell me a shirt that had a PRICE TAG OF LE67 for LE180. he did not know i could read the numerals!

does being a foriegner = idiot ?
do they feel shameless for LYING??

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despite relentless attempts by locals to swindle me or cheat me, I DID LIKE THE COUNTRY : from the museam to the cuisine, from young pple's smiles to the hotel services