|
 EgyptSearch Forums
 Living in Egypt
 Infertility
|
 UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! |
next newest topic | next oldest topic |
| Author | Topic: Infertility |
|
7aya Member Posts: 1318 |
posted 07 October 2005 04:02 PM
  
Family is a very important part of the Egyptian culture. Thus, most Egyptians are taught at a very young age, that the time will come for them to create their own family by marrying and then having children. Therefore, many people live in fear that they will turn out to be infertile and unable to have children. In fact, most Egyptians prefer to have children as soon as they get married. Its quite common to see a woman pregnant barely a month after the wedding, and with a bundle of joy in her arms 9 months later! Nowadays with the detoriorating economic situation, it is more logical for people to wait awhile before having a child, in order to build their life first. However, many couples are so afraid that either one of them is infertile, they just have the baby immediatly after the wedding. Further, it is a common belief among many Egyptians that birth control will cause infertility, and thats why many women just refuse to take it. In the last couple of years the Ministry of Health, has done several awareness campaigns to encourage people to use birth control. The campaigns focused on the message that birth control is not dangerous, but to be quite honest i don't think it was effective at all! I still hear very educated people saying that birth control=infertility! The main problem, is that Egyptian women who are not capable of having a child are often shunned by society. A mother would never let her son marry an infertile woman. A man might divorce his wife, or threaten to marry another if she is infertile. This is very psychologically disturbing to these women, as you can imagine, and they often sink deeper and deeper into depression! Addiontally, many Egyptian men refuse to believe that they are the source of the problem. If the woman is not getting pregnant, the husband would immediatly ask her to make some tests, and even if the results show that she is perfectly fine, many Egyptian men, especially in the village would still not accept that they are the ones who are infertile. In fact we have a famous Egyptian expression, "el ragel mayet3ayebsh," (theres never anything wrong with a man.) I have heard of several men who would marry a woman, but doesnt conceive, so he marries another and then another, all the time not accepting that HE is the cause. The other day, a friend of mine told me that I should ask my fiance to make some tests, as well as taking some myself, to see if we can cocieve or not. I told her why? She said so that if one of you is infertile, you can break up before the marriage. She said it, like its the most normal thing in the world! Personally, I love children. I would love to inshallah have 2 or 3. BUT, I would never leave my husband because he is infertile, and he has said he will never leave me if god forbid I am. We are not marrying each other to concieve, but because inshallah we want to be together. I want children because I love them, not because I feel it will make me any less of a woman! I think what I find really bizarre is that childless couples just refuse to raise a child from the orphan. In Islam adaption is forbidden, but we do have the "takafol," system, where you can raise the child without giving them your name. However, in Egypt many people say they only want a child that is from their "flesh and blood." But I think its silly, you don't need to be a biological parent to be a good parent and to love your child. Why suffer throughout your life? why forbid yourself from the joy of having a child to laugh, play, nurture, and raise, and most importantly to love? There are millions of children in orphans, who are dying to have parents! My questions to you guys are: Would you like to have a child? Would you feel less of a woman or man, if you couldn't? Would you leave your partner if he/she is infertile? and how is infertility viewed in your respective countries/cultures?
IP: Logged |
|
tami025 Member Posts: 50 |
posted 07 October 2005 09:03 PM
quote:
IP: Logged |
|
tami025 Member Posts: 50 |
posted 07 October 2005 09:09 PM
quote: also, my mothers friend was married to a man for many years and to no luck was she conceiving! so right away they figure it's her body so they deal with it and adopt a baby boy. for years they were together, no pregnancies. well god rest his soul, he passed away in his early forties. well, 3 years later, she starts dating a co worker and guess what happened....after they got married, SHE BECAME PREGNANT!!!! now they have 3 biological kids togther plus the one adopted boy. see, men can be faulty too might i also add the no man has the right to make a woman feel bad about herself and vice versa. God created us ALL and to put one of his creations (us people) down is no different than saying that god made a bad mistake and an ugly work of art....they'll get it when they die IP: Logged |
|
Snoozin Member Posts: 2005 |
posted 07 October 2005 09:42 PM
quote: I would like to have a child, although I've been ambivalent about it my whole life. My parents weren't very good parents, so I have no positive role model to naturally pattern any parenting skills after. Now that I'm old In that case, I'm all for adoption. I think adoption is wonderful, it's viewed very favorably in America, and it gives loving homes to many children who were unwanted and abandoned. To give a child love and nurture where he would have otherwise experienced a void or worse, pain and abuse, I think adoption is the highest form of selflessness. Regardless, I'm marrying (God willing) an Egyptian man who doesn't believe in adoption. Because of my life long ambivalence about having children, if we never do, I don't think I'd be heartbroken. And he's got several kids I can try and be a good stepparent to. As far as American culture, I believe about 10% of married couples are infertile, and there's a huge infertility treatment business to be had. Money-back guarantees if you don't get pregnant in 3 attempts. All kinds of things. Battles to ensure that health insurance covers in vitro fertilization. Battles to ensure insurance covers male infertility as well as female infertility. I don't think anyone's looked down on at all if they are infertile. But it probably produces some self-doubt issues along the way. Most people are open to adoption. Some have their hearts set on blood-related babies, to the extent if a wife is infertile, a couple might hire a surrogate mother. An embryo is created artificially using the husband's sperm and the surragate mother's egg, implanted in the surrogate mother, and if lucky, they end up with a child that shares DNA of one parent. The trend here is toward too much interference with the embryo, in my opinion. They can do things to make a much higher chance of having a boy or girl, so sex selection is possible. Fetuses are often aborted if a genetic defect is discovered. Sometimes women with fertility problems are implanted with 7-9 embryos, hoping one will *take.* And she ends up pregnant with septuplets! This can endanger her life or almost guarantee birth defects for the babies. In cases like these, selective abortions can be performed to get rid of one or more extra fetuses so the remaining ones have a better chance at a healthy survival. As you can see, there are *many* ethical questions and issues to be had with our quest at having natural/blood related children. IP: Logged |
|
Tigerlily Member Posts: 2278 |
posted 08 October 2005 01:55 AM
Just in case a couple has problems to conceive I found some contacts on the net where to turn to for medical assistance:
23 Hassan Aflaton St. Heliopolis Cairo Tel: 202 663 138 Adam International Hospital IVF Center 20 Adam St. Mohandesin Cairo Tel: 202 360 90 71 /336 74 90 / 349 10 44/ 337 12 85 American Hospital IVF Center 15, Khaled Ebn El Walid St. Sheraton, Heliopolis Cairo Tel: +202-267 0702 Fax: +202-267 9638 Cairo Fertility Center IVF Center 20 El Falouga St Agouza Cairo Tel: 202 345 99 95 Egypt Air Hospital IVf Center Beside Almaza Airport Cairo Tel: 202 418 10 75 Egyptian IVF-ET Center 3 B St. 161 Hadayek El Maadi 11431 Maadi, Cairo Tel: (202) 525 49 44 Fax: (202) 525 35 32 Fares Medical Center 43 Adb El Hamid Badawy St. Heliopolis Cairo Tel: 202 248 15 28 / 241 19 14 Hasabo International Hospital IVF Center Ahmed Fakhry St. Madinet Nasr, Cairo Tel: 202 270 90 03-04-05 Hawwa International IVF Center 12 Johaina St. Dokki Cairo Tel: 202 337 87 96 International Centre for Assisted Conception IVF-ICSI 16, Street No. 107, Maadi Gardens Cairo tel: +202-526 0168 Fax: +202-526 0172 Kamal Zaki Shoeir IVF Center 21 Gaber Ibn Hayan St. Dokki Cairo Tel: 202 335 42 38 / 335 90 47 / 337 43 60 Fax: 202 360 51 81 Louran International Hospital IVF Center 695 El Horreya St Alexandria Tel: 203 572 71 48 Mansoura University Hospital IVF Center Masoura Dakahlia Miami IVF/ICSI Center 301 Gamal Abdel-Naser St., Miami, Alexandria, Egypt. Director: Hisham Saleh, M.D. Tel: (203)5802791/5550505/ 5550223 /5550224 Fax: (203)4823981 E-mail: hisaleh@alexcomm.net Mohamed Fayez IVF Center 255, El Hegaz St. Heliopolis Cairo Tel: 202 249 17 08 Mohsen Khairy Center IVF Center 21 Amin Samy St. Kasr Eleiny Cairo Tel: 202 352 44 14 Moustafa Kamel Military Hospital IVF Center Alexandria Dr. Ahmed Roushdy Dr. Yousef Abd El Azeen Dr. Ibrahim Abd El Kader Embryologist: Dr. Amir Victor Nile Badrawy Hospital IVf Center P.O. Box 534, Maadi Cairo Tel: 202 363 86 68 / 363 86 84 Nozha International Hospital IVF Center 9El Rashidi St. Heliopolise Cairo Tel: 202 266 05 55 / 266 39 37/ 266 42 41 / 266 42 42 Raouf Mewafy Center IVF Center Port Saeid Canal Tel: 2066 22 46 71 Semouha IVF Center Semouha IVF Center P.O. Box 1355 21111 Alexandria Tel: Fax: 203 483 363 Shatby Maternity Hospital IVF Center Alexandria Tel: 203 572 71 48 Tanta University Hospital IVf Center Tanta Gharbia Good luck! IP: Logged |
|
Tigerlily Member Posts: 2278 |
posted 08 October 2005 01:58 AM
quote: Snoozing, you are 38 right? Its about time to have a baby now but it doesn't mean you will have a difficult pregnancy or any other complications. Many women - f. e. who put their careers first - are late mothers, deliver healthy babies and enjoy motherhood. Always think positive. Good luck! IP: Logged |
|
Tigerlily Member Posts: 2278 |
posted 08 October 2005 02:04 AM
quote: Snoozin, believe it or not but we opted for adoption since our first child was born. I really wanted to give a foreign child a home. Well, more biological children followed, as you know I am due again soon but we are already putting money away to adopt a little girl in the nearest future (possibly from Guatemala or Haiti) just to get some gender balance into our family. We attended over the last five years couple of adoption seminars, met many wonderful people and their adopted children from almost all continents (like China, Russia, Ukraine, India, Peru, Guatemala) and yes you are right in America its very common and favoured to adopt. I always would advise people to adopt internationally than inside the US because of legal reasons. Too many cases are still happening that birth mothers changing their mind after giving birth to their children or want them returned after couple of years. If a foreign adoption is finalized and neutralized inside the US then the child is all yours forever. IP: Logged |
|
egyptian_gurl Member Posts: 90 |
posted 08 October 2005 03:34 AM
hi 7aya, I would like of course to have children coz i LOVE them . but i can't imagine myself leaving my husband if i really love him to marry another guy so as just to have children. I agree with you that kafalet yateem ( breeding up an orphan) is the ebst solution. we can have one orphan child from any dar aytam ( orphan's houses where they take care of orphan kids) and we can consider him/her as our son /daughter. not having children is not making me a less woman. it is only GOD"s will and we should respect it. it is an experience from God which i must accept. i know that some men especially in the country side and sa3eed ( upper egypt), refuse the idea that they should stay with their wives just coz she doesn't give birth. but this is not only due to them. it is due to the society around them. of course i don't agree with them. but looking deeper into the issue, if a man from upper egypt stays with his wife who doesn't give birth to children and he defends her and that it is God's will and all that stuff, look on the surroundings that will face them. his family will treat her badly, their neighbours won't leave them to their private life. any single woman may think that this man is searching for a new wife and will try to approach him more ....etc. many and many problems so some ppl just choose the easier way according to their culture and marry another woman beside their first wife. some wives can't accept this so he may divorse her. but in this case divorce arise again as a very big problem in our society. this woman won't have children, she is divorced, she will either not marry again or marry a widow who has children....blu blu blu the chain of problems are attached to one another. so consequently, we should arrange the minds of the egyptians that not giving birth is not the end of the Wprld. loving children is not the reason that can make a person destroy his/her life. that's my simply point of view and thanx 7aya for the post IP: Logged |
|
7aya Member Posts: 1318 |
posted 08 October 2005 04:00 AM
quote: my dear did you read what i wrote? adaption is ALLOWED in islam, but through a system called takafol, where you raise a child without giving him/her your name. i found what you said about how muslims banned adaption in order to open the roads to polygamy very ignorant. obviously you don't know much about islam. i can make a few snappy comments about cathoclism right now which believe me, you will not like AT ALL. but i won't because i will respect your religion, and i expect you to respect mine too!! IP: Logged |
|
7aya Member Posts: 1318 |
posted 08 October 2005 04:14 AM
thanks snoozin for raising the issue of fertility methods. you are totally right, there are many ethical questions, and i have heard that the medication given to women to help impregnate them causes alot of hormonal diseases! egyptian gurl, you are right it is the problem of society, and infertile couples are not left alone. I was just reading one of the letters sent to Abdel Wahab Metawe3 (there are collections of the letters in books) where a woman was complaining that despite the fact that she and her husband have lived for 14 years happily without a child, his mother kept putting pressure on her son to divorce her and marry another, until he finally did! The poor woman, I can't imainge how she felt, to be abandoned by her beloved after so many years together. It is like betrayel! You are right, the Egyptian people have to start believing that infertlity is not the end of the world, and having children is not the only aspect of a happy marriage!! IP: Logged |
|
Kamal211 Member Posts: 292 |
posted 08 October 2005 04:54 AM
quote: I'll put all me trust in my Lord, and pray for the best, as everything is already written for us. Since the prime purpose of marriage is to have children and increase the Ummah with numbers and strengh, having children is most important. Our religion also outlines poverty should not be a reason to kill your babies/delay them, rather have trust in The Most Generous and The Sustainer [of life]. There is an ayah, funnily enough a friend pointed out to me in the Quran only yesterday, English translation, something like: I forgot the rest and where it was, but this is very true. So dont let shayttan threaten anyone, by thinking you must "build your life/carreer first". [This message has been edited by Kamal211 (edited 08 October 2005).] IP: Logged |
|
Anissa agnes Member Posts: 85 |
posted 08 October 2005 04:57 AM
Hello 7aya, just don' have a lot to say, I would like to have a child but I think Im getting old as Iam already 31, and if I can't have one because of my age I would love to adopt one, for sure, with or witout any husband. I really like your posting I find you very open mind Take care 7aya and happy ramadan Anissa IP: Logged |
|
newcomer Member Posts: 1635 |
posted 08 October 2005 05:18 AM
quote: Just a technical point, in English “adoption” means that you take a child into your family through legal means and raise as your own child. The Islamic method is actually nearer to what is called “fostering” in English, which means that you provide parental care and nurture children who are not related through legal or blood ties, similar, but different! IP: Logged |
|
7aya Member Posts: 1318 |
posted 08 October 2005 07:46 AM
quote:
anissa, dear what do you mean you are too old? you are 31!!! you have at least ten more years. inshallah god will bless you with children, good luck! salam IP: Logged |
|
Snoozin Member Posts: 2005 |
posted 08 October 2005 11:01 AM
quote: Thank you Tigerlily for the well wishes. Yes I just turned 38 and the earliest I can get married is January, with any luck. I just didn't meet the right guy until late. But I am very healthy, thank goodness, and most women in my family have had their children late, up to 45, so I think I've got genes on my side at least. But whatever happens, happens. I will be blessed if I can have a healthy baby. When is your next one due, and how are you feeling? IP: Logged |
|
Snoozin Member Posts: 2005 |
posted 08 October 2005 11:07 AM
quote: Yes, adoption is *very* popular in my area (DC). People have lots of money and like you said, many have put their *family building* off for careers and decide either there is too much risk in an older woman being pregnant or they just like the idea of adoption. So at this point, I would say the majority of my business colleagues and older friends now all have kids from China, India, and Kazakstan. This last one I found particularly interesting because I know Islam does not recognize adoption and all these kids in Kazakstan were Muslim! My friend just got 5 and 9 year brothers from there. My friends are very devoutly Catholic and are raising those kids Catholic. Regardless of religious issues, they have been adopted into a very loving home. IP: Logged |
|
Snoozin Member Posts: 2005 |
posted 08 October 2005 11:14 AM
quote: I'm afraid I'm pretty ignorant about this, too, 7aya. Takafol. If you get a chance, and i know this is a bit off-topic, but could you explain it to me? When does it occur? Does both the parents of a child have to be dead? What if they are horrible parents, like both raging alcoholics? I have no idea if Egypt takes in wards of the state in these cases? When parents are grossly unfit to be parents here in the US, the children can be taken from them and placed with the deparment of Social Services which finds temporary foster parents until the parents get their act together. If that never happens, the foster parents may choose to adopt if the bio parents' legal parental rights have been terminated. Or often these kids are shuttled from foster family to foster family. It's not a great life, but I think it's probably better than orphanages, which don't exist anymore here in the US (to my knowledge they don't, far too many abuses of children). So any background you could give me on takofol would be cool. Thanks! IP: Logged |
|
Snoozin Member Posts: 2005 |
posted 08 October 2005 11:17 AM
quote: Thanks Newcomer. I wasn't familiar with this at all. If you end up fostering a child in Egypt, and that child's parents are dead, is there any way to provide for inheritence rights under Egyptian and/or Islamic law? I am just wondering, God forbid, anything happens to both my fiance and his ex-wife. What happens to his child who is severely disabled? Could *I* foster him and/or provide something in my will for him? Assuming of course any of his more distant relatives are OK with this... IP: Logged |
|
Snoozin Member Posts: 2005 |
posted 08 October 2005 11:20 AM
quote: Anissa, I'm 38 and understand your *feeling old,* but you are not. Take very good care of your health, eat well, exercise, and take multi-vitamins especially folic acid. Try not to develop high blood pressure and/or diabetes, and God willing, everything should be alright even if you are much older when you decide to become a parent. Fertility is both a health issue and an age issue. You don't have much control over your age, but you have significant control over maintaining health. I wish you the best. IP: Logged |
|
7aya Member Posts: 1318 |
posted 08 October 2005 12:24 PM
hey snoozin, you can read about it in this link: http://www.angelfire.com/la/IslamicView/Adoption.html you will also find many other articles on the net good luck IP: Logged |
|
sonomod Member Posts: 2779 |
posted 11 October 2005 09:09 PM
Here is a expert from the book "Infertility and Patriarchy" by Marcia Inhorn Might explain in the simplist of forms why infertility is such a doom for Egyptian women: Thus, amoung poor urban Egyptian couples who happen to experience infertility, familial intervention is the rule, for reasons to be explored in this chapter. And despite occasional exceptions, husbands’ and wives’ kin play diametrically opposed interventional roles in the infertile marriage. Moreover, family politics are closely allied to gender politics in this setting. As we shale see, relationships between husbands and wives that would thrive if left alone are often significantly disrupted by the political maneuvering, much of it behind the scenes, of concerned family members. These “unofficial politics” often pit families against one another. But, perhaps more important, they pit Egyptian women against one another. Namely, it is women, and particularly mothers and sisters, who are disproportionately involved in influencing the outcomes of infertile marriages. By virtue of their continuing ties to sons and brothers, women of the husband’s extended family tend to identity their interests as being with the husband alone rather than with his wife, and they often become a husband’s greatest allies and a wife’s worst enemies in the familial maneuvering surrounding infertile marriage. Instead of challenging the oppressive, patriarchal norms tht make motherhood imperative for every Egyptian woman, women serve as the greatest upholders of these norms and, in so doing, make life exceedingly difficult for women who are barred against their will from joining this cult of motherhood. Interestingly, however, it is not motherhood itself tht is usually upheld as the normative ideal against which infertile women are judged so harshly by their female affines. Rather, it is patriarchy that women uphold. Perhaps unwittingly, Egyptian women participate wholeheartedly in the reproduction of partriarchy by defending the rights of men as fathers and by challenging, often viciously, women.who, by no fault of their own, are unable to facilitate men’s achievement of patriarchal authority through fatherhood. In other words, when husbands’ female family members, and especially their mothers, harass the infertile wife, they are less concerned with her failed motherhood (although this, too, may be important) than with her failure to allow her husband to be come a familial patriarch – a role that he must be allowed to achieve if he is to add to the strength and scope of the extended family itself. To understand the rather complex patriarchal politics of infertility within the Egyptian family, it is fist necessary to define what is meant by “family” and then to explicate the various reasons why infertility poses such a threat to family life. IP: Logged |
|
puppy Member Posts: 228 |
posted 18 October 2005 05:48 AM
Thanks 7aya from this topic. Thanks God my husband is open minded..and he is ready to go to all kind of test,to find out what is our problem to get a baby. And he will never leave me if i dont get a baby, if i'm one who have the problem. I think it will not be end of the world to us,if we dont get a baby. Anyway, if we get kids,we will be very happy and thankful..Kids bring much happines to ur life. We dont know yet,are we ready to take adoption child. Sad , cause here is so many poor child without home. Anyway, we will try to get our own baby for few years. We use some clinic in cairo from the begining,then we continue in my country. In my country, adoption is a normal thing..People do it all the time. Because of the problem to get baby by ur own, or with other reason. I think it is natural,that there is many kind of families. there is families with many kids, there is families with adoption kid, there is families without kids..
IP: Logged |
|
7aya Member Posts: 1318 |
posted 18 October 2005 09:19 AM
hey puppy how are you? i'm glad you and your husband love each other, and would stay with one on another even if it means no biological children. plus adopted children are just as precious! inshallah you will have the child you want weather biological or adapted! but you are right infertility is growing like crazy, especially in egypt! i wonder if it is related to the pollution and chlorine filled water we drink! can you please email me at yasminefathy@hotmail.com ? IP: Logged |
All times are GMT (+2) | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
  |
|
Contact Us | EgyptSearch!
(c) 2003 EgyptSearch.com
Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.45c